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Topher Bear

Cut Out The Bad Language

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On receiving complaints about the "What Would Happen It Renters Stopped Payments To Landlords?" thread, I have investigated the thread, and decided to delete the entire last page of posts due to the bad language and offensive personal comments.

The debate on this particular topic should have been over in two pages, this particular thread had disintegrated into name calling and did not advance anyone's understanding of the issues. For any one coming onto this website looking for advice on the current situation, they would not be impressed by reading such comments and would likely never return again. HPC does have its detractors and and these kind of comments only serve to bring the site into disrepute.

I do not delete messages lightly.

So please cool it and keep replies relevent to the topic and as objective as possible. Please refer to Board Rules before posting

Topher Bear

Edited by Topher Bear

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Fair comment Topher Bear. The reason for disharmony is clear for all to see. The renting forum used to be a helpful place for renters to get reasonable advice from each other and from others who know how the law works and how judges apply that law. It would be good to see the forum return to that.

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I agree, though Im not excusing my bad behaviour the other night.

I like these boards when intelligent debate is going on and can see how our tit for tat trivia must really annoy and put people off and yet there was me the other night jumping on the band wagon...... I apologize: mellow

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On receiving complaints about the "What Would Happen It Renters Stopped Payments To Landlords?" thread, I have investigated the thread, and decided to delete the entire last page of posts due to the bad language and offensive personal comments.

The debate on this particular topic should have been over in two pages, this particular thread had disintegrated into name calling and did not advance anyone's understanding of the issues. For any one coming onto this website looking for advice on the current situation, they would not be impressed by reading such comments and would likely never return again. HPC does have its detractors and and these kind of comments only serve to bring the site into disrepute.

I do not delete messages lightly.

So please cool it and keep replies relevent to the topic and as objective as possible. Please refer to Board Rules before posting

Topher Bear

Topher Bear,

I have had this debate with the other Mods including Jason and Bubble Pricker and based on you comments is it not clear you need to deal with Trolls abruptly?

This board has been hijacked by one individual with a single belligerent agenda and whilst I must apologise for my bad language you are now in a situation where everybody is becoming deeply frustrated and very angry that this individual can keep posting here hence which is obvious in the posts. Could take a little time to read the threads as it will become apparent where the anger stems from.

If the reputation of the site if important to you then so must policing it, a pub landlord would not tolerate such an individual, it would drive away business.

Thanks

Matt

Edited by Matt Henson

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Topher Bear,

I have had this debate with the other Mods including Jason and Bubble Pricker and based on you comments is it not clear you need to deal with Trolls abruptly?

This board has been hijacked by one individual with a single belligerent agenda and whilst I must apologise for my bad language you are now in a situation where everybody is becoming deeply frustrated and very angry that this individual can keep posting here hence which is obvious in the posts. Could take a little time to read the threads as it will become apparent where the anger stems from.

If the reputation of the site if important to you then so must policing it, a pub landlord would not tolerate such an individual, it would drive away business.

Thanks

Matt

Topher bear has made his position clear, and those who use personal insults are to stop.

Many posters have agreed with various comments I made and vice versa, and others have simply threw personal insults due to their lack of maturity. Therefore everybody is not frustrated, the likes of Peridot welcomed my comments and was frustrated at others comments but she did not resort to childish personal insults, unlike other members last evening.

Jason advised us to chill a while back, and I took that on board.

For the good of the board, as Topher rightfully tells us, lets debate, and not get personal or offensive.

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Topher Bear,

I have had this debate with the other Mods including Jason and Bubble Pricker and based on you comments is it not clear you need to deal with Trolls abruptly?

This board has been hijacked by one individual with a single belligerent agenda and whilst I must apologise for my bad language you are now in a situation where everybody is becoming deeply frustrated and very angry that this individual can keep posting here hence which is obvious in the posts. Could take a little time to read the threads as it will become apparent where the anger stems from.

If the reputation of the site if important to you then so must policing it, a pub landlord would not tolerate such an individual, it would drive away business.

Thanks

Matt

So do you think it's acceptable to answer a posting with: "You are paranoid... get a life and get off this board" in reply to my postings about the locks in my rented place??? All my posts have been polite and professional despite having the word "paranoid" thrown at me many times. It seems that just because I disagreed with you and welcomed Renterbob's posts, you have insulted me. Very unprofessional in my opinion and totally uncalled for.

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So do you think it's acceptable to answer a posting with: "You are paranoid... get a life and get off this board" in reply to my postings about the locks in my rented place??? All my posts have been polite and professional despite having the word "paranoid" thrown at me many times. It seems that just because I disagreed with you and welcomed Renterbob's posts, you have insulted me. Very unprofessional in my opinion and totally uncalled for.

I do believe you used the words "paranoid" to describe yourself in your very first post and feel free to exercise Bob's advice, it would be very interesting to see how far you get.

As a renter and landlord I believe you do not have a leg to stand on but that is just my opinion, I am sure the courts will decide if it gets that far.

Finally I very much doubt (judging by the number of PM's receive on the matter) that I was on my own in wishing the likes of you and Bob off the board.

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For the good of the board, as Topher rightfully tells us, lets debate, and not get personal or offensive.

Just be aware that debate means presenting an arguement with a valid case and reason, a debate is not to completely dismiss the opposing view or not to counter it with reasonable evidence.

If you have a single agenda which you are not prepared to discuss, then clearly that is not a debate

Edited by Matt Henson

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I do believe you used the words "paranoid" to describe yourself in your very first post and feel free to exercise Bob's advice, it would be very interesting to see how far you get.

As a renter and landlord I believe you do not have a leg to stand on but that is just my opinion, I am sure the courts will decide if it gets that far.

Finally I very much doubt (judging by the number of PM's receive on the matter) that I was on my own in wishing the likes of you and Bob off the board.

I did not use the word "paranoid" about myself on the locks thread. Furthermore I do not consider someone to be paranoid who expects locks to adhere to Police recommendations. I know exactly what my rights are as I have seen a solicitor.

I have only ever posted on this board about my own problems, never been rude, impolite or insulted anyone which cannot be said for you. You were out of order posting what you did. I will not be posting on this renters board again due to the insults, negativity and bullying received just because I disagreed (you didn't have to reply). So childish. So, you have got your wish Matt however moderators, please take note that a regular poster has caused this to happen. I'm sure I won't be the last to quit posting.

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I think we just need to agree to disagree on some topics. I've noticed Renterbob has calmed his posting recently and i'm sure we can all do the same and return to constructive posting and advice.

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I did not use the word "paranoid" about myself on the locks thread. Furthermore I do not consider someone to be paranoid who expects locks to adhere to Police recommendations. I know exactly what my rights are as I have seen a solicitor.

I have only ever posted on this board about my own problems, never been rude, impolite or insulted anyone which cannot be said for you. You were out of order posting what you did. I will not be posting on this renters board again due to the insults, negativity and bullying received just because I disagreed (you didn't have to reply). So childish. So, you have got your wish Matt however moderators, please take note that a regular poster has caused this to happen. I'm sure I won't be the last to quit posting.

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=82857

"Thanks for the advice Cartimandua. Have got to the bottom now of what happened after speaking with the agent. Am just cautious as in my last place I had drug dealing and people having sex all going on in my passageway and street. Then someone s**t right in front of my back gate which I had to clear up. Then a drug dealer moved in next door for a while. After five years of that it takes a while to try and lose the paranoia!"

Keep us updated on "your rights" very keen to hear how you get on, my experience is that most of the legal profesion has very little expereince in tenancy law or rights as there is no money in it.

As for politeness you specifically said I was wrong, "your wrong" were your words I recall and when I and the others happened to disagree and you clearly didn't like that.

However if I offended you I am very sorry but just because you feel strongly about an issue doesn't make it right and you were not prepared to consider the OP's views which is my mind defeats the object of a debate.

Edited by Matt Henson

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http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=82857

"Thanks for the advice Cartimandua. Have got to the bottom now of what happened after speaking with the agent. Am just cautious as in my last place I had drug dealing and people having sex all going on in my passageway and street. Then someone s**t right in front of my back gate which I had to clear up. Then a drug dealer moved in next door for a while. After five years of that it takes a while to try and lose the paranoia!"

Keep us updated on "your rights" very keen to hear how you get on, my experience is that most of the legal profesion has very little expereince in tenancy law or rights as there is no money in it.

As for politeness you specifically said I was wrong, "your wrong" were your words I recall and when I and the others happened to disagree and you clearly didn't like that.

However if I offended you I am very sorry but just because you feel strongly about an issue doesn't make it right and you were not prepared to consider the OP's views which is my mind defeats the object of a debate.

Your quote above from me about losing the paranoia is from a different thread - it's from a thread about unannounced visits - not locks. Completely different posting and problem hence why I wrote that I had not used the word paranoid in the locks thread. On the occasions when I disagreed it was for a valid reason ie when someone wrote that the Met Police advice was only relevant for inner cities hence why I posted the Northumbria Police advice. Do you expect me to shut up when I can prove somebody wrong?? It seems to me that you can't have a debate with someone if they don't budge on an issue but that is what a debate is all about and sometimes you just have to agree to disagree. You seem to lose your patience with people very easily in my opinion which turns into bullying. Not nice.

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Your quote above from me about losing the paranoia is from a different thread - it's from a thread about unannounced visits - not locks. Completely different posting and problem hence why I wrote that I had not used the word paranoid in the locks thread. On the occasions when I disagreed it was for a valid reason ie when someone wrote that the Met Police advice was only relevant for inner cities hence why I posted the Northumbria Police advice. Do you expect me to shut up when I can prove somebody wrong?? It seems to me that you can't have a debate with someone if they don't budge on an issue but that is what a debate is all about and sometimes you just have to agree to disagree. You seem to lose your patience with people very easily in my opinion which turns into bullying. Not nice.

My dispute was not that your were wrong but that your advice was wrong, you might have noted that I started off sympathetic to your plight but it became increasingly obvious that your only view was that the LL was going to have to pay regardless and as a LL and a tenant I happen to disagree.

There is no standard legislation on security in this country not least because it is an individuals choice but as a result there is no obligation for a LL to meet a standard. If a mad axe man broke in and maimed you, you could have a case to argue in court that the LL was negligent but it would be somewhat contrived and not a guarenteed success.

I have just moved in to a new property and will probably spend about £150 fitting window locks/door bolts etc. but I am happy to do this because I will save money on my insurance costs over the two years of the contract. That said with a shotgun and two rifles in the house (held legally of course) I am not too worried by mad axe men, perhaps you should take up clay pigeon shooting!!!

Anyway it is unlikley we are ever going to agree to agree so I apologise, please keep posting and keep us updated, I would be interested to hear where you get to, the law is created by case history and not rules.

Edited by Matt Henson

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My dispute was not that your were wrong but that your advice was wrong, you might have noted that I started off sympathetic to your plight but it became increasingly obvious that your only view was that the LL was going to have to pay regardless and as a LL and a tenant I happen to disagree.

There is no standard legislation on security in this country not least because it is an individuals choice but as a result there is no obligation for a LL to meet a standard. If a mad axe man broke in and maimed you, you could have a case to argue in court that the LL was negligent but it would be somewhat contrived and not a guarenteed success.

I have just moved in to a new property and will probably spend about £150 fitting window locks/door bolts etc. but I am happy to do this because I will save money on my insurance costs over the two years of the contract. That said with a shotgun and two rifles in the house (held legally of course) I am not too worried by mad axe men, perhaps you should take up clay pigeon shooting!!!

Anyway it is unlikley we are ever going to agree to agree so I apologise, please keep posting and keep us updated, I would be interested to hear where you get to, the law is created by case history and not rules.

Good to see you've chilled a bit Matt, and you've realised that debate is not convincing everyone you're right, and having a go at anyone who disagrees..it's about structuring your viewpoint in a thoughtful, respectful manner.

Lets hope you have not scared Peridot off the board with your bullying and misrepresentation of her posts, but now that's over, hopefully Peridot will come back and we can all debate in a civilised manner.

comeback Peridot

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debate is not convincing everyone you're right, and having a go at anyone who disagrees..it's about structuring your viewpoint in a thoughtful, respectful manner.

I am rather hoping you will remember you wrote those exact words Bob

Edited by Matt Henson

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Good to see you've chilled a bit Matt, and you've realised that debate is not convincing everyone you're right, and having a go at anyone who disagrees..it's about structuring your viewpoint in a thoughtful, respectful manner.

Lets hope you have not scared Peridot off the board with your bullying and misrepresentation of her posts, but now that's over, hopefully Peridot will come back and we can all debate in a civilised manner.

comeback Peridot

Thanks Renterbob :) - Peridot may just take a wee holiday instead ;) . Thought you might like to know, I e-mailed agent yesterday lunchtime to ask which scheme my deposit has been placed in. At 4.30 pm I decided to call the schemes direct and check myself only to find out that the agent had paid into the scheme yesterday afternoon not long after he had received my e-mail (so 1 month after receiving deposit). Cheque hasn't even cleared Protection Scheme yet! Naughty....

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Thanks Renterbob :) - Peridot may just take a wee holiday instead ;) . Thought you might like to know, I e-mailed agent yesterday lunchtime to ask which scheme my deposit has been placed in. At 4.30 pm I decided to call the schemes direct and check myself only to find out that the agent had paid into the scheme yesterday afternoon not long after he had received my e-mail (so 1 month after receiving deposit). Cheque hasn't even cleared Protection Scheme yet! Naughty....

Enjoy your break Peridot, sounds like you need it!

Oh, interesting point too, thanks for that.

Anyone know how long the LA has to put the deposit in a safety scheme like this...someone mentioned a few days ago the fine is three months rent if it has not been deposited...is there a time limit?

Maybe this could pay for your break Peridot.

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Thanks Renterbob :) - Peridot may just take a wee holiday instead ;) . Thought you might like to know, I e-mailed agent yesterday lunchtime to ask which scheme my deposit has been placed in. At 4.30 pm I decided to call the schemes direct and check myself only to find out that the agent had paid into the scheme yesterday afternoon not long after he had received my e-mail (so 1 month after receiving deposit). Cheque hasn't even cleared Protection Scheme yet! Naughty....

Are you going to be chasing for the 3x compensation?

Regards,

Q

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Are you going to be chasing for the 3x compensation?

Regards,

Q

I'm going to try but as it's fairly new legislation, not sure if I will get it. The DP scheme in my opinion still seems to be largely in favour of the LA/LL once you start reading in full about it.

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Are you going to be chasing for the 3x compensation?

Regards,

Q

They need to provide proof that they have put your deposit in the TDS scheme within 14 days of your request for information about your deposit. In theory that is supposed to be as soon as you lodge it and most agents will do that, but some don't. However provided they send you the piece of paper from the scheme in the next two weeks I very much doubt you can claim.

The TDS doesn't even protect LL's and EA's it was put in place to get deposit claims out of the court systems and save the government money, it is certainly better than it was though and sets some rules in favour of the tenant.

The real value of the scheme is rules on a section 21 notice, a LL can not issue a section 21 notice if the deposit is not held in the TDS scheme

Edited by Matt Henson

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They need to provide proof that they have put your deposit in the TDS scheme within 14 days of your request for information about your deposit. In theory that is supposed to be as soon as you lodge it and most agents will do that, but some don't. However provided they send you the piece of paper from the scheme in the next two weeks I very much doubt you can claim.

The TDS doesn't even protect LL's and EA's it was put in place to get deposit claims out of the court systems and save the government money, it is certainly better than it was though and sets some rules in favour of the tenant.

The real value of the scheme is rules on a section 21 notice, a LL can not issue a section 21 notice if the deposit is not held in the TDS scheme

But if they are required to put Peridots deposit in the scheme within 14 days, and she has found out that after 1 month they have not, why is it OK if they put it in the scheme after a further two weeks (that's 6 weeks, surely).

Any LA thoughts on this one?

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They need to provide proof that they have put your deposit in the TDS scheme within 14 days of your request for information about your deposit. In theory that is supposed to be as soon as you lodge it and most agents will do that, but some don't. However provided they send you the piece of paper from the scheme in the next two weeks I very much doubt you can claim.

The TDS doesn't even protect LL's and EA's it was put in place to get deposit claims out of the court systems and save the government money, it is certainly better than it was though and sets some rules in favour of the tenant.

The real value of the scheme is rules on a section 21 notice, a LL can not issue a section 21 notice if the deposit is not held in the TDS scheme

Hi Matt,

The reason I asked was just out of curiosity as to Peridot's motivation.

If I had been chasing an agent to find out whether my deposit was protected it would be merely to ensure that my money was safe. Trying to profit out it seems to be grossly unreasonable and money grabbing to me.

I would be curious to see what a judge's view of this would be.

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I'm going to try but as it's fairly new legislation, not sure if I will get it. The DP scheme in my opinion still seems to be largely in favour of the LA/LL once you start reading in full about it.

As I stated in my response to Matt this does seem a bit unreasonable to me. The agent or land lord may have been tardy in putting your deposit into the scheme but it is there now. Whether their tardiness was a result of intent, ignorance or poor administration is anyone's guess.

Pursuing it does seem to be a case of wanting money for nothing to me. If I found myself in my position I would hold that as an ace up the sleeve should the landlord or agent prove unreasonable.

I guess my approach has always been to play fair, be reasonable and 'do unto others' (even landlords and agents!).

Regards,

Q

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As I stated in my response to Matt this does seem a bit unreasonable to me. The agent or land lord may have been tardy in putting your deposit into the scheme but it is there now. Whether their tardiness was a result of intent, ignorance or poor administration is anyone's guess.

Pursuing it does seem to be a case of wanting money for nothing to me. If I found myself in my position I would hold that as an ace up the sleeve should the landlord or agent prove unreasonable.

I guess my approach has always been to play fair, be reasonable and 'do unto others' (even landlords and agents!).

Regards,

Q

I see your point Quoth, but if we are late with tax returns don't we get shafted? (I agree, that's a poor rule of law, but if we all have to abide by that, and the rules are clear, then why shouldn't EAs/LL?)

Those who appear keen to apply the rule of Law/court judgements regarding rentals etc don't appear to keen when it's not in avour of LL/EAs, despite being potentially beneficial to a renter.

As renters, we simply wish to know the law, the rules, and really don't expect to be called money grabbing becuase of a rule that applies, fairly and equally, to all.

A mate down Ealing split with his wife two years ago...they couldn't sell at their expected price (way too high) so they rented it out. The renter has not paid rent in four months, so the ex-wife told the guy (who has not paid rent remember) to leave. This is fair and reasonable IMO.

The guy called the police, and told the ex-wife to leave him alone, to go through the courts. He still lives there and has as yet paid no rent. The ex-wife and my mate are now fighting as to what to do next.......

This is what I call money grabbing and exploitation, but the courts really are slow at this.

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As I stated in my response to Matt this does seem a bit unreasonable to me. The agent or land lord may have been tardy in putting your deposit into the scheme but it is there now. Whether their tardiness was a result of intent, ignorance or poor administration is anyone's guess.

Pursuing it does seem to be a case of wanting money for nothing to me. If I found myself in my position I would hold that as an ace up the sleeve should the landlord or agent prove unreasonable.

I guess my approach has always been to play fair, be reasonable and 'do unto others' (even landlords and agents!).

Regards,

Q

We should start a new thread on this but there have been very few case yet (although some have been succesful) where a tenant has succeeded in winning the 3x compensation, there have been a number of threads on this board with cases but it would seem that upon discovery of no deposit protection, the LL has 14 days to produce documentation rather than the LL has to prove the deposit is protected within 14 days of moving in.

I happen to disagree the TDS offer more benefits to LL/LA it was designed with the whole purpose of making it easier for tenants to get their deposits back from corrupt LL's without using the courts. But who am I say, it would appear that reasoned arguments based on law rather than fantasy is no longer acceptable on this board.

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