Ukip Vs Green Party

[InternationalRockSuperstar]

It's not their legal personality that makes actions, which are profitable for themselves, inefficient for the economy as a whole.

Profitable for themselves.

But never loss making for themselves. (They still get a huge salary, a huge pay off and they never owned much of the stock in the first place)

That's limited liability for you.

[Permabull]

Or better still just do what i and increasingly most of the rest of the country do, dont vote, never donate to any party, pay as few taxes as possible, tell any political canvassers to go f*ck themselves, stew quietly and await the revolution.

The trouble with spoiling the ballot is, recently, the government have taken non voting/spoiling of a ballot as a sign that you're happy with the job they do.

'If the people are so unhappy with us why don't they vote us out?' Kind of mentality.

The only real way we have of making the major parties take note is to start voting in the most random candidates possible as a protest vote. To just vote in the Tories because Labour have screwed the country this time is to prepare the country for Labour rule when the Tories screw it up royally next time. However, if the Monster Raving Loony party or UKIP or BNP or whoever apart from the mainstream 3 start getting votes maybe we could actually get some parties with real policies instead of wanna-be celebs with soundbytes.

[oracle]

I'd vote UKIP in preference to the Green Party. Hopefully they will kick the Lisbon Treaty out and we'd be free of this European Union Dogma that impacts so much upon our lives now. Being Green is all very well but we have seen the ridiculous laws individual councils have come up with in relation to refuse collection. Furthermore, how Green can a country become before it loses its competitive edge?

Yes I agree.I'll be voting UKIP too.

The greens,while well meaning are hopelessly naive...and they also live in communist cloud-cuckoo land.Their defence policy would be to build a 50 foot hedge around the coastline.

Nigel farage &co have the policies,he is certainly a patriot and will walk the walk when it comes to looking after the british people.No wonder the EU want to stick him in one of their "free speech" zones.

They haven't got into their thick skulls that THE WHOLE COUNTRY,THE WHOLE MEDIA,THE WHOLE PARLIAMENT AND THE WHOLE INTERNET IS A FREE SPEECH ZONE.

Stifling criticism and healthy debate only takes us back into the dark ages.....WE AIN'T GOING BACK THERE.End of.

[jonewer]

The problem with the Green Party is that they arent truly green.

They are just in favour of whatever pseudo-scientific populist hippie-student mumbo-jumbo maaan is in fashion at the moment.

[Laughing Gnome]

Nothing preserves natural resources as effectively as free market capitalism.

What an utterly ridiculous thing to say. Capitalism is predicated on perpetual growth and built in obsolescense. Support your statement!

[InternationalRockSuperstar]

Capitalism is predicated on perpetual growth and built in obsolescense.

No, capitalism is trading without violence.

What you're thinking of is Central Bank issued debt based fiat currency (which is certainly not capitalist since it requires the paper money to be forced onto the population against their will else face imprisonment).

[bungy]

UKIP = BNP for the middle class.

the only mainstream politician who has been talking sense all along is Vince Cable, if the rest of the Lib Dems were as sensible as them they'd have my vote for sure. Pity that so many of their MPs are BTL landlords themselves (Chris Hume for example I have heard has about 9 properties).

If UKIP were a proper libertarian party then maybe, but as far as i can see they are just racist middle class toffs, as opposed to the racists working class chavs who vote BNP.

[pppeter]

What an utterly ridiculous thing to say. Capitalism is predicated on perpetual growth and built in obsolescense. Support your statement!

Is it true that Ford used to go round junk yards looking for parts of old Model Ts that worked well enough to be put into new Model Ts? The ecologist in government would at this point create an unprofitable network of car part recycling centres, funded from road tax. Ford instead redisigned the components so they couldn't be reused. To remain competetive, other car firms would have to do the same. The road tax payer would fund their extra profits. When there's no more iron to mine we simply stop driving, or mine the junk yards.

I honestly don't see the benefit in the free market here. Leave society free to decide for itself, don't let the capitalists tell us how to live.

[InternationalRockSuperstar]

UKIP = BNP for the middle class.

Under the current monetary system, there won't be a middle class soon.

"Once a nation parts with the control of its currency and credit, it matters not who makes the nations laws. Usury, once in control, will wreck any nation. Until the control of the issue of currency and credit is restored to government and recognized as its most sacred responsibility, all talk of the sovereignty of parliament and of democracy is idle and futile." - William Lyon Mackenzie King

[pppeter]

True, but going on past track records, the more socialist a country is, the more environmental damage it has caused in its own back yard.

Socialism also destoys so much of the capital base that the Gov't often can't afford to clean up, even if they'd 'like to'.

Whereas in a more free market country, people can often afford to buy cr4p like this because it makes the feel warm and fuzzy inside.

I'm not sure that you're right about the environmental damage. Capitalism has caused a lot too but socialism became popular in the period where we had the capacity to cause massive destruction but didn't have the knowledge to encourage us to limit it.

I like the bottle. Where I work free markets have dictated that we have to use a new plastic cup every time we want a drink.

[Grime- skint wouldbe ftb]

Greens or UKIP??!! The only credible alternative party is the BNP.

[pppeter]

No, capitalism is trading without violence.

What you're thinking of is Central Bank issued debt based fiat currency (which is certainly not capitalist since it requires the paper money to be forced onto the population against their will else face imprisonment).

I do have some sympathy with the viewpoint that we do as we do because we have to grab our share of an increasingly large monetary base to stay in the same place. However, I'm far from convinced that we will not be able to consume more year-on-year in a system with a fixed money supply. After all, that's what capitalism is all about - making efficiencies to allow us to produce more with the same amount of labour. We have the option to work less and consume less even with an inflationary fractional reserve system, but we choose not to.

Capitalism plus violence is very profitable indeed. Free markets like profit, they will not stop violence.

I notice that you did not quote the bit asking you to support your statement. You can't support it. You really are the new Injin

[DementedTuna]

The greens are almost in power where I'm living (Norwich)... chances are that they will be in the majority at the next local election, considering the shift from labour.

Good points are the pedestrianisation and general cleaning up of the city centre, getting rid of the traffic snarled roads and replacing them with nice tree-lined beige brick plazas. It's becoming a much better environment to live in.

Not so sure if they'd work at a national level, but locally I'm glad to have them here... they have a good grasp of infrastructure projects and it feels like the council tax is actually being spent on "stuff" rather than random non-jobs.

As for bad points, well... at the moment I have 2 massive "recycling only" wheelie bins and no regular one.

I do like UKIP as well, might go for them at the next general election.

Edited August 3, 2008 by DementedTuna

[domo]

Much like running a budget surplus the government has no incentive to protect the environment, only when it suits its short term popularity. Which is why you have the current tax system masked up as a way to protect the environment. At least capitalists have an incentive to look after there own land.

[the end is a bit nigher]

I couldn't see any reason why any sane person would vote for either UKIP or the Green Party.

The environment is a major issue but environmentalists need to be pressurising the main parties, or even working within them, not running a leftist fringe party stuck in the 1970s. As for UKIP - that's a rightist fringe party stuck in the 1870s!!!

Maybe so, but each of them has a policy I totally agree with. The mainstream parties have nothing but "we need to find a way to make homes more affordable (but without prices falling)" or "we need to tax gas guzzlers (even though they may never leave the garage and it makes no sense other than as a populist tax grab)".

In the good old days I would have voted Tory, but there isn't a cat in hells chance of me voting for them while bimbo hpi bitch is their housing advisor.

Hence the dilema.

[InternationalRockSuperstar]

We have the option to work less and consume less even with an inflationary fractional reserve system, but we choose not to.

No we don't.

I notice that you did not quote the bit asking you to support your statement.

I supported my statement in post #31.

[cells]

Not sure what the exact policy is, or even if they have one, but I heard a UKIP representative on the radio saying that house prices were too high and needed to come down. None of this 'scheme for FTBer' nonsense, just straight forward prices must fall. Very sensible I thought.

What was more interesting was listening to a bloke on a Radio 5 slot saying that car tax should be abolished and fuel duty increased, so people using most fuel paid most tax. Now I totally agree with this for reasons I have posted before. Anyway, he turned out to be a spokesman for the Green Party!

Who do I vote for? (Yes, I am bored).

go on waste your vote

[Guest barebear]

What exactly is wrong with the BNP ?

So they have been branded racist but where is the evidence ? Besides from what I can make out they're only voicing what most of us think about immigration.

If PC continues unchecked you wont be able to have a disagreement with an ethnic minority without being accused of being racist, they know this and the first thing they do is play the race card. Look at the asian assistant chief constable threatening to sue the Met on the grounds of institutional racism because he hasnt been promoted to chief constable and VERY SAD thing is we listen.

[Executive Sadman]

What exactly is wrong with the BNP ?

So they have been branded racist but where is the evidence ? Besides from what I can make out they're only voicing what most of us think about immigration.

If PC continues unchecked you wont be able to have a disagreement with an ethnic minority without being accused of being racist, they know this and the first thing they do is play the race card. Look at the asian assistant chief constable threatening to sue the Met on the grounds of institutional racism because he hasnt been promoted to chief constable and VERY SAD thing is we listen.

The sort of people it attracts? Like the chap who recently said something along the lines of women shouldnt complain about being raped as its just sex. OK every party has its bad apples, but im sure more BNP members have criminal records than those of other parties.

Still, as theyve not started any illegal wars recently, i suppose theyre slightly less despicable than labour.

[Mr C]

Right, we have come to the conclusion no party is worth voting for, so lets start the Common Sense Party.

CSP Membership limited to HPC members only

List your Common Sense policies below:

Edited August 3, 2008 by stew007

[Guest barebear]

1 Persuade Vince to become leader

2 Change the way election votes are counted and introduce internet voting

3 Renationalise the utilities excluding BT

4 Make 3 x single 3.5 x double income a legality to get a mortgage

5 Get out of Europe

6 Make UK petrol free in 15 years.

7 Start creating proper industry's to sell products abroad.

8 Get rid of the royal family.

[carbonoid]

Furthermore, how Green can a country become before it loses its competitive edge?

Denmark is very green; biggest supplier of wind turbines in the world, which have doubled in price recently due to demand. Netherlands, good green record, unemployment: 2.8% The greener this country was the better, I say, would be way more competitive, self-sufficient, sustainable. Stay the way it is; guaranteed basketcase.

[quantinghome]

1 Persuade Vince to become leader

2 Change the way election votes are counted and introduce internet voting

3 Renationalise the utilities excluding BT

4 Make 3 x single 3.5 x double income a legality to get a mortgage

5 Get out of Europe

6 Make UK petrol free in 15 years.

7 Start creating proper industry's to sell products abroad.

8 Get rid of the royal family.

1 Agree

2 This would create a huge potential for fraud. I'd trust a hand counted paper ballot over electronic any day.

3 Certainly we need a more interventionist energy supply policy. We're suffering from 20 years of the 'free market' which, due to the inherent shot-termism of companies, has left us with looming energy shortages. However, I'd be happy to leave the distribution networks in private hands (national grid etc.), but regulated as they are natural monopolies.

4 Agree, but you'd probably want the double income multiple lower than the single, say 2.5

5 Even if we left the EU, it would still be our most important trading partner. We'd be left in a similar situation to Norway except without the natural resource base - having to incorporate EU directives related to exports, but having no say over them. We're living in a world with economies far more powerful than our own. Strategically it is in our interests to join with countries of a similar economic size so we have greater power in a trading bloc than by ourselves yet still have an important voice. The problem isn't really the EU, it's our over-the-top implementation of EU directives. e.g. Our Health & Safety laws are more onerous than in France.

6 Mis-read this one - thought you wanted petrol to be free of charge Anyway, nice idea. More realistic would be to reduce oil consumption in line with the global oil depletion rate. However, we need to work out how to do it - otherwise we end up sounding like New Labour, with fine sounding targets but no idea of how to achieve them. For a start I would want to see a big rail electrification program, all new homes energy neutral and subsidies or fee-in-tariff to retrofit renewables into existing homes and other buildings.

7 Agree. I'd also make schools teach people how to write plurals properly

8 Surely this is a great source of foreign income through tourism. It's also good to have a non-political head of state. Then you don't get accused of being unpatriotic if you oppose the government's policies.

[renterbob]

The sort of people it attracts? Like the chap who recently said something along the lines of women shouldnt complain about being raped as its just sex. OK every party has its bad apples, but im sure more BNP members have criminal records than those of other parties.

Still, as theyve not started any illegal wars recently, i suppose theyre slightly less despicable than labour.

The blues have Boris - clealry he's a crazy loon, but he'd have my vote..either him or the BNP.

I'd rather deal with a criminal than with those who have out smarted the system their entire lives and never been caught.

[Byron]

Just like to add my opposition to this anti car, anti petrol thing and also scrapping car tax and put it all on petrol so that the more you use, the more you pay.

Fine if you live in a large English city with public transport etc, but an awful lot of people live in rural areas with no public transport and have to travel huge distances to work, shop and socialise. Also think of the aged and disabled.

I just wish people would stop rabbiting on about improving public transport, its a non starter for most people if they don't live in a huge conurbation. Cycling is hopeless in hilly areas, and surprisingly, it seems that most city dwellers who always talk about night life etc and how vibrant their city is, actually live a life that is incredibly cramped and narrow compared to that of country and seaside dwellers.