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Not sure what the exact policy is, or even if they have one, but I heard a UKIP representative on the radio saying that house prices were too high and needed to come down. None of this 'scheme for FTBer' nonsense, just straight forward prices must fall. Very sensible I thought.

What was more interesting was listening to a bloke on a Radio 5 slot saying that car tax should be abolished and fuel duty increased, so people using most fuel paid most tax. Now I totally agree with this for reasons I have posted before. Anyway, he turned out to be a spokesman for the Green Party!

Who do I vote for? (Yes, I am bored).

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I think people are coming to realise that we need sustainability in both the economy and the environment if we're to have a propsperous future. For happiness over growth I think it has to be Green.

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just straight forward prices must fall. Very sensible I thought.

Therein lies the great paradox of politics and house prices / economy.

That is: what is specifically good for people long / medium term, doesn't win elections in the short term.

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If you're in a marginal Labour seat and want to see the end of Brown trashing what's left of the economy then vote for whoever is best placed to beat the Labour scumbag in your constituency, whether they be Tory, Lib Dem SNP. or Plaid Cymru. Otherwise the world's your oyster ;)

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I think people are coming to realise that we need sustainability in both the economy and the environment if we're to have a propsperous future. For happiness over growth I think it has to be Green.

Nothing preserves natural resources as effectively as free market capitalism.

Out of the 2 parties mentioned in this thread, UKIP is the most in favour of small gov't and would therefore be the most environmentally friendly.

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Nothing preserves natural resources as effectively as free market capitalism.

Out of the 2 parties mentioned in this thread, UKIP is the most in favour of small gov't and would therefore be the most environmentally friendly.

I agree. A vote for the green party is a vote for veiled socialsim - it's big government re-packaged with an environmental theme. All their policies have the same effect, to coerce the individual into adpopting a centrally planned "green lifestyle", effectively limiting choice. True free market capitalism is something we haven't seen for a very long time. UKIP will definitely get my vote if they field a candidate in my constituency.

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I couldn't see any reason why any sane person would vote for either UKIP or the Green Party.

The environment is a major issue but environmentalists need to be pressurising the main parties, or even working within them, not running a leftist fringe party stuck in the 1970s. As for UKIP - that's a rightist fringe party stuck in the 1870s!!!

Edited by blankster

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Unfortunately democracy fails to count the one vote that matters the most - the no vote. If it was counted I think you would find that most elections were won by the no-vote and government would be abolished. As it stands voters themselves get disproportional representation.

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Not sure what the exact policy is, or even if they have one, but I heard a UKIP representative on the radio saying that house prices were too high and needed to come down. None of this 'scheme for FTBer' nonsense, just straight forward prices must fall. Very sensible I thought.

What was more interesting was listening to a bloke on a Radio 5 slot saying that car tax should be abolished and fuel duty increased, so people using most fuel paid most tax. Now I totally agree with this for reasons I have posted before. Anyway, he turned out to be a spokesman for the Green Party!

Who do I vote for? (Yes, I am bored).

None of the politicians are specific, alot are BTLers, like the formr labour housing minister, with their noses in the trough.

Why vote, the World bank call the shots anyway...they're all the same.

What these dimwits fail to realise, and see it as incomprehensible......when the sh** hits the fan and families are on the street...what happens.

The BNP take over.

Well done MPs.

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I'd vote UKIP in preference to the Green Party. Hopefully they will kick the Lisbon Treaty out and we'd be free of this European Union Dogma that impacts so much upon our lives now. Being Green is all very well but we have seen the ridiculous laws individual councils have come up with in relation to refuse collection. Furthermore, how Green can a country become before it loses its competitive edge?

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Nothing preserves natural resources as effectively as free market capitalism.

Only at the local level, where society can hold you to account for the harm you might cause. The BNP's economic policy, at least a few years ago when I last looked, recognised this and supported a return to the original idea of the corporation as a body with a license to carry out a trade within a location, regulated by the local guilds. I'd still not vote for them though.

At a global level a corporation would think nothing of destroying an ecosystem if it made them enough profit to protect themselves from the outfall. Deforestation, damming or redirecting water supplies, etc all make profit and all have a negative effect on the opportunity for other individuals or organisations to make a profit from the land. The small government parties will say that the free market determines that everyone should now go and live somewhere else. This is a cop-out because they're just thinly veiled fascists. With true free market capitalism the croporations will pay the costs they impose on others (externalities) but without anyone able to force them to do so, we won't have true free markets. With someone able to do so, we still won't have true free markets but we can have tyrrany by democracy in search of purer market solutions rather than tyrrany by the markets themselves.

Small government didn't help the people of Bhopal.

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Furthermore, how Green can a country become before it loses its competitive edge?

Competitiveness and preservation of natural resources go hand in hand.

A country which is more productive will not only be more wealthy, but will also have a higher economic output per given amount of natural resource.

The state sector, on the other hand, is notoriously inefficient. In a socialist country, it would take a much larger amount of natural resources just to achieve the same output as a free market.

In a socialist country, huge amounts of natural resources are squandered in malinvestments caused by Gov't interventions in the market.

M250.jpg

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Competitiveness and preservation of natural resources go hand in hand.

A country which is more productive will not only be more wealthy...

Corporations don't respect national boundaries and are concerned about the continuation of profit rather then the continuation of their own business model or their own industry, so why would they care about the natural resources of a country?

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Competitiveness and preservation of natural resources go hand in hand.

A country which is more productive will not only be more wealthy, but will also have a higher economic output per given amount of natural resource.

The state sector, on the other hand, is notoriously inefficient. In a socialist country, it would take a much larger amount of natural resources just to achieve the same output as a free market.

In a socialist country, huge amounts of natural resources are squandered in malinvestments caused by Gov't interventions in the market.

M250.jpg

Pardon?? I was trying to point out that all the 'red tape' and fines etc. that come with having to be 'green' do little to keep industry competitive. Would only be fair if they applied to all, globally, but I don't see that happening. Just think about the pollution that China is generating.

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I don't know why you're going on about corporations - they would not even exist in a free market.

In a free market, all people are judged equally before the law, but how can this be the case if some people can hide behind the corporate veil and others can't?

The absurdity that is the doctrine of company personhood has given a small minority of the population (namely directors) a much greater power-to-responsibility ratio than everyone else in the country.

It gives a small minority of the population the ability to totally abuse the capital of a company that they do not own, by means of excessive executive pay etc. Shareholders do not get a fair return on their capital. Workers do not get a fair wages for their labour.

And since the company's legal personality can only exist by court enforcement, the entire plc structure is really an extension of the state system.

Inidvidual shares may do exceedingly well, but in general, shares in PLCs as an asset class are a scam.

Edited for clarity

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UKIP. Greens just arent pragmatic. Theyre supported by simpleton idealogues IMO.

Or better still just do what i and increasingly most of the rest of the country do, dont vote, never donate to any party, pay as few taxes as possible, tell any political canvassers to go f*ck themselves, stew quietly and await the revolution.

Edited by Sadman

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Pardon?? I was trying to point out that all the 'red tape' and fines etc. that come with having to be 'green' do little to keep industry competitive. Would only be fair if they applied to all, globally, but I don't see that happening. Just think about the pollution that China is generating.

People tend not to give a f*ck about land pollution when the land is owned by someone else (the state in China's case). Especially when they could be evicted from ther dwellings at gun point at any moment.

However, give people the right to own their own land and they will take care of it like...well like it's their own.

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I don't know why you're going on about corporations - they would not even exist in a free market.

You've got me stumped there. I don't like corporate capitalism and I can see the problems with free markets. Never did I consider that under free market conditions it would be illegal to pool capital with others and employ people. My worldview is turned upside down. :blink: Perhaps you're saying it would be inefficient to operate in such a manner when there are no rules and restrictions? I still don't see it.

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People tend not to give a f*ck about land pollution when the land is owned by someone else (the state in China's case). Especially when they could be evicted from ther dwellings at gun point at any moment.

However, give people the right to own their own land and they will take care of it like...well like it's their own.

That's why my preference would be UKIP.

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People tend not to give a f*ck about land pollution when the land is owned by someone else (the state in China's case). Especially when they could be evicted from ther dwellings at gun point at any moment.

However, give people the right to own their own land and they will take care of it like...well like it's their own.

Totally ignorant of reality*. What I do on my land impacts what someone else can do on theirs. If I cut down all the trees on a hillside overlooking a village the villagers had better get a new business model by the monsoon season. Then I start mining and they all die of mercury poisoning. As a capitalist I don't give a f*ck about land I don't own but I also don't give a f*ck about land I do own if I can make enough profit from it to compensate myself for the loss of the income I could have got from using it as a picnic area instead of a gold mine.

Edit: * Are you trying to be the new Injin?

Edited by pppeter

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Never did I consider that under free market conditions it would be illegal to pool capital with others and employ people.

I didn't say pooling capital would not happen in a free market. Just that coporations would not be able to have a legal personailty. This means that 'directors' are completely accountable for their actions and that there would be no limited liability.

eg. you could still set up a partnership, but would not be able to set up a limited liability partnership (LLP).

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I didn't say pooling capital would not happen in a free market. Just that coporations would not be able to have a legal personailty. This means that 'directors' are completely accountable for their actions and that there would be no limited liability.

eg. you could still set up a partnership, but would not be able to set up a limited liability partnership (LLP).

It's not their legal personality that makes actions, which are profitable for themselves, inefficient for the economy as a whole.

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Devaluation of someone's property --> sue for damges

Actual harm to actual people --> criminal prosecution

Doesn't mean the ecology won't get trashed.

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Doesn't mean the ecology won't get trashed.

True, but going on past track records, the more socialist a country is, the more environmental damage it has caused in its own back yard.

Socialism also destoys so much of the capital base that the Gov't often can't afford to clean up, even if they'd 'like to'.

Whereas in a more free market country, people can often afford to buy cr4p like this because it makes the feel warm and fuzzy inside.

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  • 395 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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