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MrPants

Self Cert Mortgages....have They Completely Disappeared?

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Hi,

I've been merrily saving for a first home for a few years now and thoroughly enjoying watching prices fall. Yippee! More please.

The fly in the ointment for me is that I'm self employed. So while my income is nice and healthy the actual taxable income after allowed deductions is only about a third of my total income. Hence proving income will be hard (unless I deliberately didn't claim all I could and handed a a big extra wedge to the tax man which I obviously don't want to do).

Pre-crunch if you took out a self cert with a 25% deposit you'd get an interest rate approximately similar to a typical mortgage. So this was the target I set myself in saving for a deposit. Does anyone know if you can still get self certs now, and if so how much of a deposit you need to get a decent rate. Reckon by next summer I'll have 35%. Will that be enough or has the bar raised even higher than that? Any pointers welcome.

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don't whine when you find that you can't have your cake and it eat. That just makes you a pussy.

Pr.ck.

What he is saying is that he pays all of his due taxes but standard mortgages don't always cater for company directors and people who have incomes that are partially derived from non salarised payments. I think you fill find that there are a significant amount of people in this position, more than you realise

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I am in a similar position although potentially worse off due to having been overseas for much of the last few years, however I have always paid my tax here (online business, sole trader) and now have three years of accounts.

Anyway I saw my IFA yesterday and he looked over the market and said there would be no problem getting a self cert. The key is a hefty deposit. I am currently looking at 35% currently and that is more than enough in his opinion providing the credit record is ok, e.g. no CCJs...

My main issue is not having rented in the UK for three years but he said that it would not be a problem with a large deposit.

So the advice is get a large deposit and the mortgage companies / banks will be queuing up for your business.

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Ltd companies no.1 on HMRC hit list atm, seriously make sure you can defend an IR35 claim and a fat back dated one at that.

(and have cash for accountants an a good solicitor)

They went through every contract I worked on since 1998 (pre IR35) with a VERY fine tooth coomb and it cost lots to defend and potentilly 10's of £K.

I got burned baddly for the ones they ruled inside IR35, Luckily the letter from the benefits agency (between contracts!)

Had I known then, what I know now, I would have deliberately tried to claim benefit the day any contract ended, just for that sweet sweet letter that states that one part of the system see's you as self employed!

Seriously next renewal, get the company you work for to delay it a week, go and try to sign on and get a WRITTEN LETTER TO STATE YOU ARE SELF EMPLOYEED! and therefore entitled to nothing (don't mention savings, just the fact you a company director)

Edited by Yoss

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The fly in the ointment for me is that I'm self employed. So while my income is nice and healthy the actual taxable income after allowed deductions is only about a third of my total income. Hence proving income will be hard (unless I deliberately didn't claim all I could and handed a a big extra wedge to the tax man which I obviously don't want to do).

Dear Delaney

I don't mean this to be taken personally, really I don't.

It seems to me you're saying that in reality you earn more money than you actually pay taxes on and that actually you're doing all right. No doubt you're within the rules and if you can get away with it then its certainly not for me to citicise. But conversely, don't whine when you find that you can't have your cake and it eat. That just makes you a pussy.

Cheerio

Eze

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Soz total shameless bump!

Ltd companies no.1 on HMRC hit list atm, seriously make sure you can defend an IR35 claim and a fat back dated one at that.

(and have cash for accountants an a good solicitor)

They went through every contract I worked on since 1998 (pre IR35) with a VERY fine tooth coomb and it cost lots to defend and potentilly 10's of £K.

I got burned baddly for the ones they ruled inside IR35, Luckily the letter from the benefits agency (between contracts!)

Had I known then, what I know now, I would have deliberately tried to claim benefit the day any contract ended, just for that sweet sweet letter that states that one part of the system see's you as self employed!

Seriously next renewal, get the company you work for to delay it a week, go and try to sign on and get a WRITTEN LETTER TO STATE YOU ARE SELF EMPLOYEED! and therefore entitled to nothing (don't mention savings, just the fact you a company director)

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Dear Delaney

I don't mean this to be taken personally, really I don't.

It seems to me you're saying that in reality you earn more money than you actually pay taxes on and that actually you're doing all right. No doubt you're within the rules and if you can get away with it then its certainly not for me to citicise. But conversely, don't whine when you find that you can't have your cake and it eat. That just makes you a pussy.

Cheerio

Eze

In the original poster's defence I have a very similar issue and sympathise with them, it took me an age just to have my income vetted when I rented a flat earlier this year. Its a trust problem (I mean, gee, just look at your post) that arises from the lack of a second party in the employer role. Thats not really our fault, and doesn't suddenly make anyone with non-standard employment and/or income a fraudster. There are perfectly good reasons for a persons income to not all be taxable, at least not in the normal way. Just as you say if its "within the rules" then short of voluntarily paying extra tax where its not owed (would you?), what else is it about either that or the need for a self-cert mortgage that makes them, or me, a "pussy" ? Who exactly is "getting away" with something?

[edit: I'm not saying self-cert mortgages aren't clearly open to abuse and the whole system really is ****** up and unfair anyway, that goes without saying]

Edited by Fraccy

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Dear Delaney

I don't mean this to be taken personally, really I don't.

It seems to me you're saying that in reality you earn more money than you actually pay taxes on and that actually you're doing all right. No doubt you're within the rules and if you can get away with it then its certainly not for me to citicise. But conversely, don't whine when you find that you can't have your cake and it eat. That just makes you a pussy.

Cheerio

Eze

Or maybe, like me, he/she earns a figure of X which gets paid into a Ltd Co. which he/she is the sole owner of, yet they only need a figure of Y (where Y < X) to get by on a day to day basis so is leaving X-Y in the Ltd company because why on earth would you want to take the extra out of the company and pay income tax on it yet when it could be earning interest?

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Self Cert Mortgages....have They Completely Disappeared?

Take a look at this -- MAY 2008:-

http://video.news.sky.com/skynews/video/?&...270508_0900.flv

bet eric pebbles not self employed he seems to have a major problem with self cert .almost paranoia

ERIC IF YOU WANT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY ON THIS FORUM PLEASE REALISE THAT THERE ARE SOME VERY SWITCHED ON COOKIES HERE ALSO, NOT ALL SELF CERTS ARE LIAR LOANS. GROW UP

what has happened to you in earlier life

to make you so bitter

i doubt whether you will tell the truth

have i riled you now

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bet eric pebbles not self employed he seems to have a major problem with self cert .almost paranoia

ERIC IF YOU WANT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY ON THIS FORUM PLEASE REALISE THAT THERE ARE SOME VERY SWITCHED ON COOKIES HERE ALSO, NOT ALL SELF CERTS ARE LIAR LOANS. GROW UP

what has happened to you in earlier life

to make you so bitter

i doubt whether you will tell the truth

have i riled you now

Er............ Hey Johnygee --- TELL ME THAT THE FACTS REVEALED BY THAT LINK TO THAT VIDEO ARE NOT A TOTAL SCANDAL TO THIS COUNTRY?!?!??

http://video.news.sky.com/skynews/video/?&...270508_0900.flv

WHAT'S THAT GOT TO DO WITH GROWING UP?!?!?!? TELL ME?!?!???????????? FACE THE TRUTH MAN --- THINGS ARE SHOCKINGLY BAD OUT THERE!!!!!!

Edited by eric pebble

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Er............ Hey Johnygee --- TELL ME THAT THE FACTS REVEALED BY THAT LINK TO THAT VIDEO ARE NOT A TOTAL SCANDAL TO THIS COUNTRY?!?!??

http://video.news.sky.com/skynews/video/?&...270508_0900.flv

eric i totally agree with you i LOVE watching those documentaries i think its scandalous it but it doesnt help those who genuinely need to self cert and you always tar everybody with the same brush what is it that you dont understand about self cert because we probably agree on about 80% but stop making me feel like a criminal

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eric i totally agree with you i LOVE watching those documentaries i think its scandalous it but it doesnt help those who genuinely need to self cert and you always tar everybody with the same brush what is it that you dont understand about self cert because we probably agree on about 80% but stop making me feel like a criminal

Hey Johnygee --- I really do not intend to label you as a criminal --- honest! I just think -- If only things were just STRAIGHTFORWARD!!!!! "Prices" of recent times SIMPLY DO NOT CORRESPOND to regular normal INCOMES. THAT is THE ONLY point I wich to make. Simple. SOMETHING IS JUST NOT RIGHT OUT THERE FOR ORDINARY PEOPLE. That does NOT mean that SOME people like yourself are criminals taking out self certs or whatever. But - you must admit -- Self Certs are THE ONLY way people have been able to buy -- and this is crazy -- coz a LARGE number of them are NOT self-employed --- MANY HAVE ADMITTED TO THIS ON THIS SITE.......

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If you produce accounts then is it still self cert (surely your income is certified by your accountant)? I've been self-employed since April this year and I'm currently renting so I've assumed that I won't be able to even think about buying a house until I have 12 months' accounts

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Hey Johnygee --- I really do not intend to label you as a criminal --- honest! I just think -- If only things were just STRAIGHTFORWARD!!!!! "Prices" of recent times SIMPLY DO NOT CORRESPOND to regular normal INCOMES. THAT is THE ONLY point I wich to make. Simple. SOMETHING IS JUST NOT RIGHT OUT THERE FOR ORDINARY PEOPLE. That does NOT mean that SOME people like yourself are criminals taking out self certs or whatever. But - you must admit -- Self Certs are THE ONLY way people have been able to buy -- and this is crazy -- coz a LARGE number of them are NOT self-employed --- MANY HAVE ADMITTED TO THIS ON THIS SITE.......

i totally agree why havent you self cert'ed in the past you seem like a level headed guy i just dont understand why you are so bitter

are you an ordinary person ,could you have capitalised over the last 10 years on house price increase your answer will probably be yes .your ordinary joe bloggs saw house prices rising sharply wanted a piece of the action i cant be bothered with the rest of it ,you know what i want to say. i think you would be an idiot over the last 10 years not to lie a bit and want a piece of the action the only down side was when to get out if at all you wanted to get out

unless you have been through ONE OF THESE BEFORE you wont know what i am talking about

then thats another story I WILL GET BITTER

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i totally agree why havent you self cert'ed in the past you seem like a level headed guy i just dont understand why you are so bitter

are you an ordinary person ,could you have capitalised over the last 10 years on house price increase your answer will probably be yes .your ordinary joe bloggs saw house prices rising sharply wanted a piece of the action i cant be bothered with the rest of it ,you know what i want to say. i think you would be an idiot over the last 10 years not to lie a bit and want a piece of the action the only down side was when to get out if at all you wanted to get out

unless you have been through ONE OF THESE BEFORE you wont know what i am talking about

then thats another story I WILL GET BITTER

Er......... Sorry mate -- don't agree with your point of view on that one.......... Oh loads of Germans saw what was happening to Jews and Gipsies in the 1930's -- but hey!!! Why not just accept it and let it happen or even join in!!! Everyone else is!!

No SIREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! :angry:

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Good post - I'm also a sole trader and will have to go down the self-cert route. It's bothered me that I wouldn't be able to get a mortgage when the time is right because of all the abuse that's gone on with this type of mortgage. My fear is that this type of mortgage might be pulled from the market and make it difficult to buy a place when I'm ready to. I suppose as long as they can see you are totally genuine, have a few years worth of accounts as well as a 25% deposit then it shouldn't really be a problem, particularly if business is holding up in the recession.

That's absolutely fine by me Catflap. No problem with that WHATSOEVER.

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Glad to see I'm not the only self employed person with thias concern.

Working nomad: Your post I take as good news. Thank you. If your IFA thought 35% viable I’m sorted (or at least another 12 months of scrimping and I will be).

Ezekiel: Frankly, you have a valid point. Being able to legally arrange things to minimise your tax bill is a very valuable plus to being self employed. It is only now I realise how much I was shafted over the years by HMRC. I guess the more control you have over your finances the less they can help themselves to. So yes to a degree it is a bit rich to bleat about the downsides, but on the flip side I pay my share, declare all my earnings, and all I want to do is a buy a little flat in Brum to live in, which I would have no difficulty affording the repayments on. I don’t think that’s too much to ask.

Eric: Your colourful campaign against liar loans has some validity. I watched the video you referred me to. I accept they have been massively misused which has consequences over the whole financial/housing system. However I think you are chucking the baby out with the bathwater. Before their abuse self cert loans filled an important function in letting people with ‘irregular’ incomes buy property. There’s no reason for this to be adandoned. A few more checks and prosecuting people who cheated the system? Fine by me.

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Eric: ............. There’s no reason for this to be adandoned. A few more checks and prosecuting people who cheated the system? Fine by me.

TOTALLY fine by me Delaney:

The salient and FUNDAMENTAL bit........

"A few more checks and prosecuting people who cheated the system"...

TOTALLY OK.

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If you produce accounts then is it still self cert (surely your income is certified by your accountant)? I've been self-employed since April this year and I'm currently renting so I've assumed that I won't be able to even think about buying a house until I have 12 months' accounts

if your accountants good,then your first year accounts shouldnt allow you to get a mortgage on a door knocker or possibly the door dont worry about that

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  • 399 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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