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A Proper Liar Loans Mortgage Broker

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Sounds about right for the vast majority of mortgages taken out in the last 5 years. If the customers morons who took out these loans fall in to repayment difficulty. Can they take action against the company who advised them? If there have been obvious dodgy dealings as is the case here?

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This is the first case of the FSA doing a general review of a mortgage broker - no fraud suspected, no false payslips etc.

It shows what most people know and that is a huge number of mortgages applied for in the last 5 years have been LIAR LOANS and in this broker's case 100%.

This is the tip of the iceberg

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http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Library/Commun.../2008/065.shtml

FSA/PN/065/2008

7 July 2008

The Financial Services Authority (FSA) has banned a mortgage broker and fined her £129,000 after finding she had been involved in numerous fraudulent mortgage applications. This is the first time the FSA has both banned and fined a mortgage broker for mortgage fraud.

Sadia Nasir was an FSA approved person and the director of a firm based in Ilford called London Mortgage and Financial Services Limited. The firm traded as House of Finance. This six figure fine is aimed at deterring approved persons from getting involved in mortgage fraud and also aimed at taking back illicit profits that she made.

Margaret Cole, Director of Enforcement FSA, said:

"Ms Nasir's actions were particularly serious and blatant, and she poses an immediate risk to lenders.

"We have banned a number of mortgage brokers and others this year in connection with mortgage fraud but the problem persists. We made a commitment last year to increase fines in the retail sector to act as a deterrent and this case marks a step change in the way we are dealing with mortgage fraud, in line with that commitment.

"We will continue with this new policy and intensify our crackdown on mortgage fraud. Perpetrators will increasingly find themselves facing bans, heavier fines and having to disgorge illicit gains."

The FSA found that Ms Nasir:

submitted seven mortgage applications containing false information about her own employment and earnings supported by falsified documents, including payslips, financial statements and accountant?s certificates;

in four instances entered her own bank details on mortgage applications for clients; and

deliberately withheld sections of an application form from FSA investigators, failed to disclose to the FSA information relating to a County Court Judgment made against her in September 2005 and failed to disclose the true extent of her assets in an authorisation application to the FSA.

Blimey, the FSA are really clamping down, be it at least 5 years too late ..... :lol:

What a splendid use of dramatic language !!! 'immediate risks to lenders (Northern Rock and B&B by any chance?)' 'having to disgorge illicit gains'......

At this rate, they'll end up saying 'Liar Loans' .

Perhaps Eric should send them a tape of the infamous 2003 program .....

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http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/chariot_15apr08.pdf

20 files reviewed

7 employed clients recommended self cert deals with no explanation of why income could not be proved

13 self employed clients recommended self cert deals with no explanation of income could not be proved

100% of files checked were LIAR LOANS

Hmm............. Like I've always said...................

This is

MASSIVE................

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At this rate, they'll end up saying 'Liar Loans' .

Perhaps Eric should send them a tape of the infamous 2003 program .....[/color]

Here it is!!!!!!! -- http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...75&hl=en-GB

:D:D The Money Programme DID send it to them all those years ago as far as I know......... Did anything actually GET DONE about it?

Er.................................................. NOPE!!!

And have they looked at this one from May 2008?!?!? - http://video.news.sky.com/skynews/video/?&...270508_0900.flv

Don't hold your breath!!!!

:unsure::unsure: :angry:

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Guest barebear
Hmm............. Like I've always said...................

This is

MASSIVE................

Lenders always think it doesnt matter all the time house prices are rising. Like goldfish swimming round a bowl that keep on discovering a new bridge.

But is that right, I've never believed the 7 second goldfish memory theory and I dont believe lenders think house prices only ever go up. Truth is they wont lose unless it gets really silly. A 30-45% fall wont do them that much damage, when you take into consideration insurances taking up redundancies and covering long term illness.

I reckon they'll only start squealing when drops are greater than 50%.

Otherwise I entirely agree with Eric.

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IMHO the banks need to start taking action against these brokers in court...... recover some losses and finish the dodgy ones off.

Mortgage Fraud is a serious criminal offence and all alleged perpetrators should be brought in front of criminal courts. The FSA should refer all these cases to the police/CPS. If the FSA fails to report these matters to the police/CPS then the FSA are colluding with criminals and should themselves be prosecuted in criminal courts!!! :angry:

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I fail to understand how mortgage fraud can be a criminal offence, yet if somebody steals my identity and opens multiple credit agreements in my name (which could include mortgages) that it somehow becomes a civil matter and that I have to prove that it wasn't me. Can somebody explain how this works?

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I fail to understand how mortgage fraud can be a criminal offence, yet if somebody steals my identity and opens multiple credit agreements in my name (which could include mortgages) that it somehow becomes a civil matter and that I have to prove that it wasn't me. Can somebody explain how this works?

In short BS -- Mortgage Fraud/Liar loans mean that prices quickly climb - and so others wanting to buy roof in same street/town etc have to MATCH the price that has been set by Liar Loans --- thus they are forced to pay EXTREMELY high prices which have climbed 400% in 6-8 years -- or go roofless......... It actually involves HUGE sums of money for everyone --- prices have been driven to crazy heights - and millions of people are now debt slaves --- this needn't have happened.........

Edited by eric pebble

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Blimey, the FSA are really clamping down, be it at least 5 years too late ..... :lol:
Sorry if I seem to throw cold water on your enthusiasm, but is that not something of an exaggeration?

One mortgage broker fined and banned.

I would wait until there are hundreds or thousands fined and banned before coming to that conclusion.

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I fail to understand how mortgage fraud can be a criminal offence, yet if somebody steals my identity and opens multiple credit agreements in my name (which could include mortgages) that it somehow becomes a civil matter and that I have to prove that it wasn't me. Can somebody explain how this works?

Easy, the fraud is against the bank, not you. All you have is a case for damages against the perps for inconveniencing and embarrassin you.

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Sorry if I seem to throw cold water on your enthusiasm, but is that not something of an exaggeration?

One mortgage broker fined and banned.

I would wait until there are hundreds or thousands fined and banned before coming to that conclusion.

See nine more on the BBC video from 2003.

thats nine out of 10 IIRC.

I expect to see ANY high street full of perps.

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Easy, the fraud is against the bank, not you. All you have is a case for damages against the perps for inconveniencing and embarrassin you.

That is true, but could you not claim that the IFA or broker fraudulently used your details without your explicit consent. Wouldn't this render me immune to criminal prosecution at the same time as rendering the IFA/broker liable for fraud?

It annoys me that there is absolutely no protection for victims of identity theft (and a large growing legalised protection racket to protect your identity) and that even though the perpetrators are technically committing fraud, that they cannot be prosecuted for it. Is this correct?

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That is true, but could you not claim that the IFA or broker fraudulently used your details without your explicit consent. Wouldn't this render me immune to criminal prosecution at the same time as rendering the IFA/broker liable for fraud?

It annoys me that there is absolutely no protection for victims of identity theft (and a large growing legalised protection racket to protect your identity) and that even though the perpetrators are technically committing fraud, that they cannot be prosecuted for it. Is this correct?

If you dont sign the mortgage docs, and they put through a mortgage inyour name, then thats a fraud against the lender, not you.

You are just a tool in the fraud, its usually best to have a real entity for the lender to check against.

Apparently, you are more likely to be murdered than have your ID stolen in the uk.

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If you dont sign the mortgage docs, and they put through a mortgage inyour name, then thats a fraud against the lender, not you.

You are just a tool in the fraud, its usually best to have a real entity for the lender to check against.

Apparently, you are more likely to be murdered than have your ID stolen in the uk.

Then clearly I've been unlucky. Though not id theft in the strictest sense of the word, I've had one of my credit cards cloned and used to fund a night out at an expensive cocktail bar, several mobile phone topups and a bet at the races. Fortunately for me my credit card company spotted it before I got my statement and suspended and refunded all items. It's a bit unnerving though.

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Then clearly I've been unlucky. Though not id theft in the strictest sense of the word, I've had one of my credit cards cloned and used to fund a night out at an expensive cocktail bar, several mobile phone topups and a bet at the races. Fortunately for me my credit card company spotted it before I got my statement and suspended and refunded all items. It's a bit unnerving though.

I dont think Credit card theft is classed as ID theft.

If it is, Id suggest you sleep with a gun under your pillow!

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Sorry if I seem to throw cold water on your enthusiasm, but is that not something of an exaggeration?

One mortgage broker fined and banned.

I would wait until there are hundreds or thousands fined and banned before coming to that conclusion.

Good observation and I dont expect to see much in the way of increased checking and fining until there is a new government.

IMO while there is a chance for Gordon to flame the fire of HPI up again his government / regulation henchmen will keep these checks pretty low key.

I fear, only when there is a new party in power will the real checks and balances be forced through and Eric's Liar loans be guarded against.

In the meantime what is driving prices south is the lack of credit. This is unlikely to turn around in the next year so there is probably less of a driving need for stronger regulation.

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Does that surprise an of us? <_<

No

don't forget this is a mortgage broker engaging in self cert LIAR LOANS and being caught as part of the process the FSA is undertaking (slowly). This is totally different from the dodgy mortgage brokers providing false payslips to lenders.

False payslips = tiny problem

LIAR LOANS = everywhere

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No

don't forget this is a mortgage broker engaging in self cert LIAR LOANS and being caught as part of the process the FSA is undertaking (slowly). This is totally different from the dodgy mortgage brokers providing false payslips to lenders.

False payslips = tiny problem

LIAR LOANS = everywhere

To my knowledge this statement is grossly incorrect. Self cert accounts for only 10% of the market approx and I doubt 100% of that is fraudulent. Hardly EVERYWHERE is it?

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To my knowledge this statement is grossly incorrect. Self cert accounts for only 10% of the market approx and I doubt 100% of that is fraudulent. Hardly EVERYWHERE is it?

I think you may be a little wrong on that one bobby --- Take a look at the video - NINE OUT OF TEN Mortgage "Advisers" recommending clients to LIE............

Check it out.......

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...75&hl=en-GB

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I think you may be a little wrong on that one bobby --- Take a look at the video - NINE OUT OF TEN Mortgage "Advisers" recommending clients to LIE............

Check it out.......

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...75&hl=en-GB

Unless its you being Monty Python again heres another example of over egging your case..... bobby made the point thats it not 100% (your claim) you countered with some spurious research from a TV programme (you know the ones you claim are badly researched when you disagree with them and then salute to the highest when they agree with you)... your current view is what 100%, nine out of ten ???

Well either of these is likely to way out for the simple reason that lenders have not (prior to raised rates and dropping prices) seen a massive upswing in repossessions or arrears etc, in fact they have been at historically low levels..... now the cynics may claim that thats becasue people remortgage with a new lie, take the money to live off it (and pay the mortgage with) etc etc.. which has surely happened to some degree but it misses a big point... when someone first bought with say a vastly inflated salary statement.. you would have thought that for the first two years or three years or whatever they would have struggled with payments and we would have seen massively increased early arrears on these types of loans (but that wasn't the experience of the lenders involved in the market)

So overclaim AGAIN from eric .. certainly.... after all he also forgets that C and G, Nationwide, a large number of the building societies, Woolwich (mostly) had precious little self-cert or fast track options available which is a very large chunk of the market... and other lenders like HSBC, First Direct , Egg etc have never sold through brokers anyway.

Of course there is an issue with liar loans, they did contribute to the problem, but hopefully not everyone will see them as the be all and end all of the markets problems or the key driver of the issue of HPI.... even if some programme maker out to tell a tale does over egg the pudding in the same way that many of the property pro programmes did to aid enthusiasm for getting involved with property.

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Unless its you being Monty Python again heres another example of over egging your case..... bobby made the point thats it not 100% (your claim) you countered with some spurious research from a TV programme (you know the ones you claim are badly researched when you disagree with them and then salute to the highest when they agree with you)... your current view is what 100%, nine out of ten ???

Well either of these is likely to way out for the simple reason that lenders have not (prior to raised rates and dropping prices) seen a massive upswing in repossessions or arrears etc, in fact they have been at historically low levels..... now the cynics may claim that thats becasue people remortgage with a new lie, take the money to live off it (and pay the mortgage with) etc etc.. which has surely happened to some degree but it misses a big point... when someone first bought with say a vastly inflated salary statement.. you would have thought that for the first two years or three years or whatever they would have struggled with payments and we would have seen massively increased early arrears on these types of loans (but that wasn't the experience of the lenders involved in the market)

So overclaim AGAIN from eric .. certainly.... after all he also forgets that C and G, Nationwide, a large number of the building societies, Woolwich (mostly) had precious little self-cert or fast track options available which is a very large chunk of the market... and other lenders like HSBC, First Direct , Egg etc have never sold through brokers anyway.

Of course there is an issue with liar loans, they did contribute to the problem, but hopefully not everyone will see them as the be all and end all of the markets problems or the key driver of the issue of HPI.... even if some programme maker out to tell a tale does over egg the pudding in the same way that many of the property pro programmes did to aid enthusiasm for getting involved with property.

:D

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  • 399 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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