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uncle_monty

I Thought £2m+ Properties Were Untouchable?

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Found this fluff / lifestyle / sales pitch in the property section of the Sunday Times.

http://property.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life...icle4395991.ece

A banker and family had a house worth £3m in 2004. They then spent £1.4m on "lifestyle" rennovations.

It is now on the market for £4.75m, meaning they'll be lucky to break even. What happened to the "super-prime" elevator? It seems to be creaking as reality slowly dawns on everyone outside a small coterie of Oligarchs.

Not that they are forced sellers......yet. Wait until he gets fired this autumn!

Take a look for yourselves: http://www.savills.co.uk/residentialSearch...aspx?pID=201275

Monty

July 27, 2008

A very modern Edwardian house

This Edwardian house in Hampstead, North London has been reborn as an open-plan symphony of space

Take a large family house in Hampstead, north London – not the poshest part, but a pricey Edwardian street, Kidderpore Gardens, in the area known as “the Crofts”. It’s perfectly okay, but, after you’ve lived in it for a few years, you decide on a makeover. For most people, this would mean a new kitchen and a back extension. Not so for the Lloyd-Lyons family: behind its facades, they demolished the house and spent two years turning the inside into an ultramodern glass and steel box. Now it is on the market - for £4.75m.

Why move now, only a few months after it has finally been finished? That is just about the first question I ask Sarah Lloyd when I visit. I’m wondering, in a slightly prurient way, whether the sums they must have spent are forcing them to sell, but no. Sarah’s husband, Steve Lyons, is an investment banker. The couple, both 48, have a 13-year-old son, Josh. They also own a little place on the Suffolk coast, but want a bigger home in the country and a smaller one in town, so they’re shuffling the pack – and looking for another project for Sarah, who has developed something of a taste for project-managing building sites. Money, it seems, is not really an issue here. If they don’t get a reasonable price, they’ll just stay put.

They paid £2.2m for the house in 2001 and it was valued at just over £3m in 2004, before the work began.“It was perfectly fine as it was, with big rooms – someone had had a stab at modernising it before, and there was little original left,” says Sarah. “So we had the idea of doing something with it.”

She admits that the scheme ended up costing twice their £700,000 budget.

That’s not unusual: what is, however, is the ambition of the work. And how. You can see immediately what the £1.4m has bought – epic space. Because space, enormous volumes of space, is what this house is all about. It may be described in the particulars as a three- bedroom house, but it offers 4,000 sq ft of space, much of it double-height. You really need to measure the volume of air it contains.

The main living area is cathedral-like in its proportions, a cube 30ft square and nearly as high. The master bedroom, glass-walled, literally overhangs this space – the corner of the bedroom is suspended from a giant concealed beam in the ceiling – and, with its linked bath- room and dressing room, takes up all the available space on the first floor. The 15ft square dressing area alone is large enough to be anyone else’s fourth bedroom. This, then, is not the sort of house where you count the rooms or even measure the floor space.

The kitchen has a large island unit facing the living space, with sinks and suchlike hidden behind sliding and folding panels. You can just close the doors and hide all the dishes away. There is a study at the front of the house, in what was originally a living room. And down-stairs? Well, the Lloyd-Lyonses didn’t just rebuild the house and extend it backwards: they also dug downwards, creating a 26ft-long living space that doubles as a cinema room. Again, it rises almost vertiginously high at one end.

The garden may be a modest 60ft, but it has been designed to within an inch of its life, with interlocking levels and trickling water. Seen from the house, it’s like the world’s largest window box. From the street, however, little of this is apparent: only an obviously new flight of black slate steps hints at the gloriously single-minded transformation within.

Consider, too, the attention given to the quality of the finishes – right down to the floorboards. For most people, floorboards are just floorboards. Not the Lloyd-Lyonses. They ordered special lengths of douglas fir, very wide and very long. Made by Dinesen, they are the size of whole trees; the road outside had to be closed when they were delivered. They are the same as those used at Charles Saatchi’s new art gallery in Chelsea, west London – and, given the choice pieces of contemporary art dotted around the place, this is at times more like a gallery than a house anyway.

A lot of thought has gone into the fittings, too. I’m immediately disposed in their favour because I find that Sarah has chosen the same shelving system as mine – the timelessly elegant Vitsoe 606 system, designed by Dieter Rams – and the same door handles – the satisfyingly ergonomic AJ lever handles in nickel-plated brass, as designed by the Danish master architect Arne Jacob-sen. Those details, however, are the only similarity between my cluttered, crumbling, slightly poky house in a lesser part of north London and her Hampstead space symphony.

“Everything has to be perfect in a job like this,” Sarah says firmly; and, after I’ve been shown round her house, I’m inclined to agree. Plainly, she has found a new vocation – the sometimes frustrating business of managing builders and tradesfolk. “It’s two years of dust and noise,” she says cheerfully. “Pretty much everything didn’t arrive on time. There came a point when someone had to step up and project-manage it, and I was available. I’m really into this kind of stuff.”

The house was designed not by a traditional architect, but by Kevin Brennan of Brinkworth, a design consultancy known for devising interiors for Diesel, Karen Millen and other upscale shops: Ghost, that kind of thing. So, they are well used to funky display spaces, but dabble in domesticity too, of a sort – they’ve previously done a house for the artist Dinos Chapman, for instance.

This, however, was a project that took years to see through – and, in the latter stages, the family also seem to have been driving the design details. Look at Josh’s room upstairs, with its bed on a platform and slightly weird green-and-yellow colour scheme: you’re looking into the mind of a young teen as much as that of a seasoned designer.

All in all, though, it’s a tour de force. You can’t fault bold details such as the enormous freestanding sheet of glass that separates hall from study, or the staircase inspired by the industrial-black stairs of Tate Modern, or the similarly black metal ceiling to the kitchen.

Some families get torn apart by this kind of stress. The Lloyd-Lyonses moved out and rented a flat nearby, orch-estrating proceedings from there. Now they want to have another go. “You learn so much doing something like this, you feel you’d like to do it again,” Sarah says, slightly dreamily. She may have a near-perfect house, but you can tell she’s nostalgic for the mess, the builders, the lorries and cranes, the dramatic deliveries of exciting chunks of big stuff.

This may seem like housebuilding as a hobby for the rich, but you can’t deny the impact of the result. Look at it this way: if you don’t like all that messy stuff, but you’ve got quite a wedge of your own, here’s a ready-made domestic paradise where all the work has been done for you. And, for once, I can safely say that no expense has been spared.

The house is for sale through Savills (020 7472 5000) and Aston Chase (020 7724 4724

Edited by uncle_monty

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Found this fluff / lifestyle / sales pitch in the property section of the Sunday Times.

http://property.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life...icle4395991.ece

A banker and family had a house worth £3m in 2004. They then spent £1.4m on "lifestyle" rennovations.

It is now on the market for £4.75m, meaning they'll be lucky to break even. What happened to the "super-prime" elevator? It seems to be creaking as reality slowly dawns on everyone outside a small coterie of Oligarchs.

The house is for sale through Savills (020 7472 5000) and Aston Chase (020 7724 4724

'An ultra-modern glass and steel box' just about sums it up. Sterile and de-humanised - perhaps OK for a family of steel robots, as long as they're programmed to be exceedingly tidy, of course.

Who on earth actually wants to live like this?

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Found this fluff / lifestyle / sales pitch in the property section of the Sunday Times.

http://property.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life...icle4395991.ece

A banker and family had a house worth £3m in 2004. They then spent £1.4m on "lifestyle" rennovations.

It is now on the market for £4.75m, meaning they'll be lucky to break even. What happened to the "super-prime" elevator? It seems to be creaking as reality slowly dawns on everyone outside a small coterie of Oligarchs.

Not that they are forced sellers......yet. Wait until he gets fired this autumn!

Take a look for yourselves: http://www.savills.co.uk/residentialSearch...aspx?pID=201275

Monty

July 27, 2008

A very modern Edwardian house

This Edwardian house in Hampstead, North London has been reborn as an open-plan symphony of space

Take a large family house in Hampstead, north London – not the poshest part, but a pricey Edwardian street, Kidderpore Gardens, in the area known as “the Crofts”. It’s perfectly okay, but, after you’ve lived in it for a few years, you decide on a makeover. For most people, this would mean a new kitchen and a back extension. Not so for the Lloyd-Lyons family: behind its facades, they demolished the house and spent two years turning the inside into an ultramodern glass and steel box. Now it is on the market - for £4.75m.

Why move now, only a few months after it has finally been finished? That is just about the first question I ask Sarah Lloyd when I visit. I’m wondering, in a slightly prurient way, whether the sums they must have spent are forcing them to sell, but no. Sarah’s husband, Steve Lyons, is an investment banker. The couple, both 48, have a 13-year-old son, Josh. They also own a little place on the Suffolk coast, but want a bigger home in the country and a smaller one in town, so they’re shuffling the pack – and looking for another project for Sarah, who has developed something of a taste for project-managing building sites. Money, it seems, is not really an issue here. If they don’t get a reasonable price, they’ll just stay put.

They paid £2.2m for the house in 2001 and it was valued at just over £3m in 2004, before the work began.“It was perfectly fine as it was, with big rooms – someone had had a stab at modernising it before, and there was little original left,” says Sarah. “So we had the idea of doing something with it.”

She admits that the scheme ended up costing twice their £700,000 budget.

That’s not unusual: what is, however, is the ambition of the work. And how. You can see immediately what the £1.4m has bought – epic space. Because space, enormous volumes of space, is what this house is all about. It may be described in the particulars as a three- bedroom house, but it offers 4,000 sq ft of space, much of it double-height. You really need to measure the volume of air it contains.

The main living area is cathedral-like in its proportions, a cube 30ft square and nearly as high. The master bedroom, glass-walled, literally overhangs this space – the corner of the bedroom is suspended from a giant concealed beam in the ceiling – and, with its linked bath- room and dressing room, takes up all the available space on the first floor. The 15ft square dressing area alone is large enough to be anyone else’s fourth bedroom. This, then, is not the sort of house where you count the rooms or even measure the floor space.

The kitchen has a large island unit facing the living space, with sinks and suchlike hidden behind sliding and folding panels. You can just close the doors and hide all the dishes away. There is a study at the front of the house, in what was originally a living room. And down-stairs? Well, the Lloyd-Lyonses didn’t just rebuild the house and extend it backwards: they also dug downwards, creating a 26ft-long living space that doubles as a cinema room. Again, it rises almost vertiginously high at one end.

The garden may be a modest 60ft, but it has been designed to within an inch of its life, with interlocking levels and trickling water. Seen from the house, it’s like the world’s largest window box. From the street, however, little of this is apparent: only an obviously new flight of black slate steps hints at the gloriously single-minded transformation within.

Consider, too, the attention given to the quality of the finishes – right down to the floorboards. For most people, floorboards are just floorboards. Not the Lloyd-Lyonses. They ordered special lengths of douglas fir, very wide and very long. Made by Dinesen, they are the size of whole trees; the road outside had to be closed when they were delivered. They are the same as those used at Charles Saatchi’s new art gallery in Chelsea, west London – and, given the choice pieces of contemporary art dotted around the place, this is at times more like a gallery than a house anyway.

A lot of thought has gone into the fittings, too. I’m immediately disposed in their favour because I find that Sarah has chosen the same shelving system as mine – the timelessly elegant Vitsoe 606 system, designed by Dieter Rams – and the same door handles – the satisfyingly ergonomic AJ lever handles in nickel-plated brass, as designed by the Danish master architect Arne Jacob-sen. Those details, however, are the only similarity between my cluttered, crumbling, slightly poky house in a lesser part of north London and her Hampstead space symphony.

“Everything has to be perfect in a job like this,” Sarah says firmly; and, after I’ve been shown round her house, I’m inclined to agree. Plainly, she has found a new vocation – the sometimes frustrating business of managing builders and tradesfolk. “It’s two years of dust and noise,” she says cheerfully. “Pretty much everything didn’t arrive on time. There came a point when someone had to step up and project-manage it, and I was available. I’m really into this kind of stuff.”

The house was designed not by a traditional architect, but by Kevin Brennan of Brinkworth, a design consultancy known for devising interiors for Diesel, Karen Millen and other upscale shops: Ghost, that kind of thing. So, they are well used to funky display spaces, but dabble in domesticity too, of a sort – they’ve previously done a house for the artist Dinos Chapman, for instance.

This, however, was a project that took years to see through – and, in the latter stages, the family also seem to have been driving the design details. Look at Josh’s room upstairs, with its bed on a platform and slightly weird green-and-yellow colour scheme: you’re looking into the mind of a young teen as much as that of a seasoned designer.

All in all, though, it’s a tour de force. You can’t fault bold details such as the enormous freestanding sheet of glass that separates hall from study, or the staircase inspired by the industrial-black stairs of Tate Modern, or the similarly black metal ceiling to the kitchen.

Some families get torn apart by this kind of stress. The Lloyd-Lyonses moved out and rented a flat nearby, orch-estrating proceedings from there. Now they want to have another go. “You learn so much doing something like this, you feel you’d like to do it again,” Sarah says, slightly dreamily. She may have a near-perfect house, but you can tell she’s nostalgic for the mess, the builders, the lorries and cranes, the dramatic deliveries of exciting chunks of big stuff.

This may seem like housebuilding as a hobby for the rich, but you can’t deny the impact of the result. Look at it this way: if you don’t like all that messy stuff, but you’ve got quite a wedge of your own, here’s a ready-made domestic paradise where all the work has been done for you. And, for once, I can safely say that no expense has been spared.

The house is for sale through Savills (020 7472 5000) and Aston Chase (020 7724 4724

Hideous!

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Firstly, what is it with that advert, wonder what the EPC shows up and once again what used to be a simple five bed house now marketed as something it plainly isn't. Secondly, surely you more than most now how the 'just about' wealthy use leverage in an attempt to create more easy wealth? Rasing speculative massive loans now is impossible; you want a 2mil mortgage, do you earn 500k per year and if you do would you really want to buy a house with it? In this recession IMHO it'll be the "if I count up everything on my personal balance sheet I'm a millionaire Rodney" that'll be hit hardest. The majority of new wealth has been made quickly and temporararily by 'playing houses'. Watching that value (illusory wealth) crumble, whilst so many cannot afford to, or do not have the desire to keep up the payments will be a tag for this recession...Some will still exit in time but the sand in the timer is running dry....

Edited by Converted Lurker

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Firstly, what is it with that advert, wonder what the EPC shows up and once again what used to be a simple five bed house now marketed as something it plainly isn't. Secondly, surely you more than most now how the 'just about' wealthy use leverage in an attempt to create more easy wealth? Rasing speculative massive loans now is impossible; you want a 2mil mortgage, do you earn 500k per year and if you do would you really want to buy a house with it? In this recession IMHO it'll be the "if I count up everything on my personal balance sheet I'm a millionaire Rodney" that'll be hit hardest. The majority of new wealth has been made quickly and temporararily by 'playing houses'. Watching that value (illusory wealth) crumble, whilst so many cannot afford to, or do not have the desire to keep up the payments will be a tag for this recession...Some will still exit in time but the sand in the timer is running dry....

CL, I couldn't have put it better myself. The City gravy train has been derailed for this chap (e.g. low bonus if lucky, P45 if not), yet he still has it in his mind that property always goes up. I don't really understand this thinking, as they've been sensible in not looking for 20-40% uplift in price for their "development" work.

But the typical vendor arrogance of "...if we don't get what we want, we'll just keep/rent it until prices are again going up at 10-25% p.a." will ruin some, and fundamentally impair many, many more.

The sands are indeed running out.

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Who on earth actually wants to live like this?

Now that they can see the end result, not them obviously.

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whoever bought it in 2001 for 1mil to sell it to them for 2.4mil in 2004 made the real money on this house IMHO. Amazing to think that even at 2.4 in 2004 that market still had further to go ballistic :blink: 2004 prices is where London is quickly headed I reckon.

http://www.houseprices.co.uk/e.php?q=Kidde...p;s=11&n=10

Edited by Converted Lurker

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Looks like they have knocked down a 'just above average' size family home with small garden (you can get one like their neighbours round here for about 350,000 even now) and replaced it with something quite hideous. Just how much do those in London earn? Must be loads if that is worth anything over £500k.

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So theyve ripped the guts out of a rather nice old house, and replaced the internals in it with something modern.

I much prefer the older features.

No doubt they will have torn down internal walls to gain more living space.

Its all to do with property porn programmes.

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Does not appear to be designed to allow friends and family to stay.

Have a look at the size of the third bedroom.

It's actually not a bad size by mere mortal standards. But the main bedroom dressing room is bigger.

IMO they've made a fundamental mistake with this property, in that people spending anything like that kind of money would normally want a min. of 4 good size bedrooms.

Instead of which they've got 2 very large and one standard. For anyone with 2 kids that means arguments over who's going to have the nice big bedroom, for a start - and no spare room for guests.

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Well how about this property Cobham Surrey, 8000 sqr feet and reduce in price by 50% from £5m to £2.5m

We are crunching across the board I think.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-162...38&tr_t=buy

History

date event

27th Jul 2008 10:42:34

* Agents Address found: 8 High Street, Cobham, KT11 3DY

* Detailed Description found: LOCATIONCobhamFEATURES A fabulous 3/4 acre site South/south east facing rear garden Planning permission exists for an 8,000 sq ft home 3m ceiling heights Underfloor heating throughout Concrete floorin...

26th Jul 2008 10:45:32

* Brief Description changed: from 'COMING SOON - Situated in the sought after Fairmile area of Cobham, this superb home will have 8,000 sq ft of accommodation in a good size plot. The property will consist of a stylish exterior in which there will be six bedrooms, five bathrooms and four spacious reception rooms.' to 'Awaiting details'

* Price changed: from '£4,600,000' to '£2,500,000'

* Status changed: from 'New home' to 'Available'

9th Mar 2008 19:21:50

* Price changed: from '£5,000,000' to '£4,600,000'

5th Mar 2008 17:58:16

* Agent found: Gascoigne Billinghurst

* Agents Location found: Cobham

* Agents Telephone found: 08452197038

* Brief Description found: COMING SOON - Situated in the sought after Fairmile area of Cobham, this superb home will have 8,000 sq ft of accommodation in a good size plot. The property will consist of a stylish exterior in whic...

* Price found: £5,000,000

* Status found: New home

* Subtitle found: 6 bedroom detached

* Title found: Cobham

Full description:

LOCATION

Cobham

FEATURES

A fabulous 3/4 acre site

South/south east facing rear garden

Planning permission exists for an 8,000 sq ft home

3m ceiling heights

Underfloor heating throughout

Concrete flooring to all levels

Audio visual systems

High quality kitchen and bathroom fittings

Miele appliances

Granite kitchen worktops

Integrated wine cooler

Double height entrance hall

Vaulted ceilings to kitchen/family room

Security systems

Keyless entry systems

Air conditioning

High quality self cleaning windows

10 year NHBC guarantee

Web based CCTV and CAT5 cabling pre wired throughout

INTRODUCTION

This magnificent 3/4 acre plot faces in a south/south east direction, is partially tree lined and planning permission exists for an 8,000 sq ft home.The property is situated in the heart of this private road in one of the most sought after locations in Cobham. With its boutique shops, stylish cafes and restaurants, good schools and excellent commuter links, new homes are highly sought after.

Details for property ID 8273 supplied to RightMove on 26/07/08

Edited by mikelivingstone

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whoever bought it in 2001 for 1mil to sell it to them for 2.4mil in 2004 made the real money on this house IMHO. Amazing to think that even at 2.4 in 2004 that market still had further to go ballistic :blink: 2004 prices is where London is quickly headed I reckon.

http://www.houseprices.co.uk/e.php?q=Kidde...p;s=11&n=10

GULP! :blink: Good spot. With every passing week I grow ever more fearful about just how far property has to fall to get back to what are still high prices by historic standards.

At times in the past I've considered Realistbear to be a bit cuckoo, and I still rail against some of his more militant and socially divisive commentary, but his forecasts of 70% peak-to-trough is looking increasingly more likely.

A 50% nominal HPC from today's prices is a given as far as I'm concerned.

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Well how about this property Cobham Surrey, 8000 sqr feet and reduce in price by 50% from £5m to £2.5m

We are crunching across the board I think.

always thought it would be those with the most to lose that would (eventually) panic. If the majority of, for example, your 2 mil net wealth is tied up in property and it's falling in value that quickly, as you chase the market down, it must be a sickening feeling. The moment these guys, or anyone pricing at that level, first heard the words "credit crunch" they should have sold for whatever they could get. It's not proft until it's in the bank and even then you have to find the right one :blink:

just to add have you seen how many house in the 2-3mil sale bracket are for sale in Cobham, is that every 'big house' in that small area, there must be a hundred of 'em...no panic there then eh? Interesting that there's hardly any difference in quality between those priced at 1mil (presumably priced to sell) and those priced at 3mil

...oh dear

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/search.rsp?lo_u...amp;s_tat=false

Edited by Converted Lurker

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This is not a 3d rendering from a 1990s design package, it is the real design.

2946755_3_propertyDetails.jpg

How do they watch TV from the sofa, it looks like it would block the room turned around.

Thing is, it's ugly. Full stop.

It isn't even attractive in a truly modernist style, cos it hasn't got any style, it's just ugly.

It looks exactly like half the offices I have worked in over the last ten years. But people don't live in offices, they live in homes; with rugs, and ornaments and decoration, stray teddy bears, flowers, you know the sort of thing.

How long before this looks as dated, and hideous, as the lava lamp and acrylic fur stuff of the seventies?

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This is not a 3d rendering from a 1990s design package, it is the real design.

2946755_3_propertyDetails.jpg

How do they watch TV from the sofa, it looks like it would block the room turned around.

The layout resembles a stretch limo.

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Can't be doing with a room without a window. "Meeedya" rooms are pathetic. A bit like "games" rooms, and having a "bar". For pete's sakes just have a telly in the corner and a few bottles in the kitchen. That's why you have a kitchen.

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Houses like this are done for in the present times.

Not only is it only three bed now, the changes mean it will be as energy efficient as a patio heater.

If I were to spend over a million on a property let alone nearly 5 million I would emigrate to somewhere

much nicer and get a hell of a lot of property for my money.

This type of property function should be for a family with 3 or 4 kids, instead it has been turned

into a money losing monstrosity.

What market do they think they are appealing too ?

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If I were to spend over a million on a property let alone nearly 5 million I would emigrate to somewhere

much nicer and get a hell of a lot of property for my money.

Yep, fair point.

Using the exclusive (and expensive) West Vancouver analogy again, this is the sort of waterfront home you can buy in a similar price bracket (slightly more, now sold).

Property taxes have to be taken into consideration, but it certainly makes you think about relative standard of living.

wv1.jpg

wv2.jpg

wv3.jpg

wv4.jpg

wv5.jpg

wv6.jpg

wv7.jpg

wv8.jpg

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  • 395 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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