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Unrealistic Wage Expectations

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I know slightly off-topic, but this usually gets a lot of interest on this site!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/e...icle4369021.ece

"Students are running up substantial debts but earning less than they expect on graduating, research indicates.

The authors of a report say that government ambitions to push half of all school-leavers into higher education could be to blame for the mismatch between expectations and reality.

On average, students misjudge their starting salaries by more than £2,000"

Perhaps better access to information regarding starting salaries after university is the key?

JP

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Perhaps the provision and uptake of more useful degrees to enable a more lucrative career. :rolleyes:

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Perhaps the provision and uptake of more useful degrees to enable a more lucrative career. :rolleyes:

Are you saying that " 'Border Crossings, Borderlands: Transnational Feminist Perspectives on Immigration'

University of Washington. This women studies department offering takes a new look at recent immigration debates in the U.S., integrating questions of race and gender while also looking at the role of the war on terror." is a useless degree? :o

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Supply and demand.

When I went to uni 30 years ago, only about 10% of people did so; now it's approaching 50%!

The world just has no need for this many graduates, particularly as the majority of degrees are in fookin' useless subjects like 'media studies'!

University is a great experience - you get away from home, get pissed, and get laid.

But we do our kids no favours by raising their expectations of what they can expect when they leave.

Most wealthy people I know left school at 15 or 16 and grafted.

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Are you saying that " 'Border Crossings, Borderlands: Transnational Feminist Perspectives on Immigration'

University of Washington. This women studies department offering takes a new look at recent immigration debates in the U.S., integrating questions of race and gender while also looking at the role of the war on terror." is a useless degree? :o

I think it'd take an idiot (university-educated or otherwise) to claim it was a degree in the first place.

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every once in a while lately, I get overcome with happiness that I'm not 18 heading into college/starting a career at this point in time.

they end up saddled with massive debt, continually lowering job/standard of living prospects.

higher tax rates, lower savings rates (getting a little better lately) and in none of those areas does it look to get better.

all we need is a draft and they would be completely screwed.

luckily they don't vote, and the binge drinking keeps them nice and semi-confused.

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every once in a while lately, I get overcome with happiness that I'm not 18 heading into college/starting a career at this point in time.

they end up saddled with massive debt, continually lowering job/standard of living prospects.

higher tax rates, lower savings rates (getting a little better lately) and in none of those areas does it look to get better.

all we need is a draft and they would be completely screwed.

luckily they don't vote, and the binge drinking keeps them nice and semi-confused.

I think it depends on which career you choose.

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Perhaps better access to information regarding starting salaries after university is the key?

Then the double whammy is that you do earn good money, more than you expected but its worth far less than you originally imagined.

Where that comfortable £30K+ salary won't buy you a decent house

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Where that comfortable £30K+ salary won't buy you a decent house

Decent house!? For the last 2 years it wouldnt have bought you ANY house around here!

Ditto to the sentiments about the exclusivity of degree education. These days it is important to focus on doing something useful which provides skills demanded in the workplace. To shine you really need a masters or Ph.D.. Probably for the better, a 3rd class honours in TV and media studies does not make an individual seem anymore appealling to an employer than a moderately qualified O-level school leaver in years past.

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Guest Steve Cook
Perhaps the provision and uptake of more useful degrees to enable a more lucrative career. :rolleyes:

The reason there is "insufficient" provision and uptake of more useful degrees is because there is a dearth of more useful careers to justify them.

The Chinese and Indians took them up some time ago, at a fraction of the operating costs.

If we want to retain and/or aquire any real wealth in the world, we are going to have to compete with the likes of China on their playing field with regards to manufacturing costs. Which means, of course, that our population is going to have to work for a lot less and work in degraded working conditions.

Are you ready for that?

Or, at least, the above must become inevitable as long as there is a global economy.

Edited by Steve Cook

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Just don't get me started. :angry: I go all glassy-eyed when people start talking about their offspring going to "Uni".

Almost getting back on topic, the biggest problem for today's kids (and probably a lot of their parents) is they've never known a life without credit cards - and the inception of the credit card, in my opinion, is historically probably the major contributing factor to the existence of HPC. The whole damn economy is blighted by plastic.

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Then the double whammy is that you do earn good money, more than you expected but its worth far less than you originally imagined.

Where that comfortable £30K+ salary won't buy you a decent house

Comfortable £30k+ salary? Which recent graduates are these, the ones working in Daddy's firm?

My kids are on little more than half that - in the South East! Don't dare use a credit card because they know their chances of paying it off are poor.

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Guest Steve Cook
Just don't get me started. :angry: I go all glassy-eyed when people start talking about their offspring going to "Uni".

Almost getting back on topic, the biggest problem for today's kids (and probably a lot of their parents) is they've never known a life without credit cards - and the inception of the credit card, in my opinion, is historically probably the major contributing factor to the existence of HPC. The whole damn economy is blighted by plastic.

the whole damn economy is blighted by fiat money. By fiat money, I refer to the ability of lendors to simply lend "money" into existence via fractional reserve lending

Of which plastic has become the most virulent form.

In the 18th century, central banks were devised to be the only ones that could lend fiat into existence the form of promisory notes.

With the coming in of e-money, we have had a kind of historical reversal. The lenders are now able to do the equivalent of lending fiat into existence again in a pretty much unregulated way. The fact that such promises are now numbers on a screen and not pieces of paper is merely an arbitary distinction.

Edited by Steve Cook

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Guest KingCharles1st
Supply and demand.

When I went to uni 30 years ago, only about 10% of people did so; now it's approaching 50%!

The world just has no need for this many graduates, particularly as the majority of degrees are in fookin' useless subjects like 'media studies'!

University is a great experience - you get away from home, get pissed, and get laid.

But we do our kids no favours by raising their expectations of what they can expect when they leave.

Most wealthy people I know left school at 15 or 16 and grafted.

I "know" you are right in sentiment- but unfortunately there are still so many companies out there who seem to think that by interviewing only graduates etc that they are going to get a better member of staff on their team. This would be far more acceptable in employment like the hi-tech electronics industry, but it's now applying to so much other employment in hurts. I'm beginning to think it's a bit of a ploy to keep wages down to be honest. It is possible for a new member of staff to be caught in the employers trap of "I only want to employ graduates," thereby drastically culling the number of applicants. But then the grads get "This is the price for the job- be lucky you are a grad and can actually apply for it.."

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Guest Steve Cook
I "know" you are right in sentiment- but unfortunately there are still so many companies out there who seem to think that by interviewing only graduates etc that they are going to get a better member of staff on their team. This would be far more acceptable in employment like the hi-tech electronics industry, but it's now applying to so much other employment in hurts. I'm beginning to think it's a bit of a ploy to keep wages down to be honest. It is possible for a new member of staff to be caught in the employers trap of "I only want to employ graduates," thereby drastically culling the number of applicants. But then the grads get "This is the price for the job- be lucky you are a grad and can actually apply for it.."

It is unfortunately inevitable that any employer is going to go for the most able candidates it can when recruiting. This is done, in a very crude way, by looking at the level of academic achivement of the candidates. In the past, this was done via O levels and A levels. Now, it is done via A levels and Degrees.

There may or may not be a legitimate argument about the validity of degrees as an indirect measure of performance in work. Neverthless, as long as they are viewed in this way, empoloyers will use them. Why wouldn't they?

Edited by Steve Cook

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The reason there is "insufficient" provision and uptake of more useful degrees is because there is a dearth of more useful careers to justify them.

The Chinese and Indians took them up some time ago, at a fraction of the operating costs.

If we want to retain and/or aquire any real wealth in the world, we are going to have to compete with the likes of China on their playing field with regards to manufacturing costs. Which means, of course, that our population is going to have to work for a lot less and work in degraded working conditions.

Are you ready for that?

Or, at least, the above must become inevitable as long as there is a global economy.

that's not entirely true, we can also compete with better technology/productivity.

working smarter not harder etc.

that's why it's so unfortunate that we spend so little on developing our industries for the future, it leaves us in the position of competing manually on goods, and they have a lot bigger edge in that department.

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Guest Steve Cook
that's not entirely true, we can also compete with better technology/productivity.

working smarter not harder etc.

that's why it's so unfortunate that we spend so little on developing our industries for the future, it leaves us in the position of competing manually on goods, and they have a lot bigger edge in that department.

I think you will find the Chinese are kicking our arses at the moment for two primary reasons.

1) they work harder for less money

2) there a billions of them that will do (1)

Working smarter will have a part to play. However, the advantages that (1) and (2) confer on the Chindians means that such a strategy as you have outlined, has only very limited utility

Edited by Steve Cook

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Guest Steve Cook
Scandinavians seem to be able to do it.

True enough

However...

Their population is much smaller than ours...

Thier culture is much more inclined to central planning than our rabid free-market mentality would ever countenance

They have been able to live, parasitically of the back of the global economy by specialising in niche market, high end products. I would be interested to see how well they fare in the coming years when the global economy begins to perpetually contract and we get down to the brass tacks of producing cold hard essential commodities that the world really needs, where cost becomes and absoloute premium.

Edited by Steve Cook

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I graduated in 2005. There are a huge number of people for whom degrees weren't the best option. Vocational training and apprenticeships seem far better as you earn while you study rather than accumulate debt.

50% of people getting degrees is a ridiculous idea, I've been saying this for a while but often met very negative responses. If less people went to university we could reintroduce the grant scheme and hopefully the most able would be able to go at minimal cost regardless of financial situation.

I know plenty of people who have struggled to find jobs after uni. I didn't and get payed around 23k in my first role. My partner is on over 30k but I guess we are the exceptions as not everyody can do this, there aren't enough jobs at this level. I have a 1st class masters degree in Chemistry from Durham and My GF a 1st class BSC with industrial placement year followed by a years work experience for one of the big 4 in a foreign country.

I have friends who are doing equally well, working for the big 4, multinationals like GSK and so on. A few have started there own (succesful) businesses and some have taken "lifestyle" jobs. A few are struggling to find proper work but not many.

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Comfortable £30k+ salary? Which recent graduates are these, the ones working in Daddy's firm?

My kids are on little more than half that - in the South East! Don't dare use a credit card because they know their chances of paying it off are poor.

Some examples

Rolls graduate scheme paying 27.5k + 3k joining

http://www.prospects.ac.uk/cms/ShowPage/Ho...no=0&from=P

The banks pay 35+

I'm sure the consultancies pay around 30k starting

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I graduated in 2005. There are a huge number of people for whom degrees weren't the best option. Vocational training and apprenticeships seem far better as you earn while you study rather than accumulate debt.

50% of people getting degrees is a ridiculous idea, I've been saying this for a while but often met very negative responses. If less people went to university we could reintroduce the grant scheme and hopefully the most able would be able to go at minimal cost regardless of financial situation.

I know plenty of people who have struggled to find jobs after uni. I didn't and get payed around 23k in my first role. My partner is on over 30k but I guess we are the exceptions as not everyody can do this, there aren't enough jobs at this level. I have a 1st class masters degree in Chemistry from Durham and My GF a 1st class BSC with industrial placement year followed by a years work experience for one of the big 4 in a foreign country.

I have friends who are doing equally well, working for the big 4, multinationals like GSK and so on. A few have started there own (succesful) businesses and some have taken "lifestyle" jobs. A few are struggling to find proper work but not many.

Yes, but you did a real degree in a useful subject. I doubt you will ever be out of work if you want it.

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  • 396 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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