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At The End Of An Ast That Became A Periodic Month To Month

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(For England & Wales ASTs)

Say the place you were moving to becomes unavailable or the tenants there are late moving out, yet you're due out of your current rental on a certain date...

What happens? Can the landlord evict you any faster than 2 months or even sooner if he has a tenant booked to come in to yours?

How much can the landlord charge you for renting beyond the notice period's last day? Is there a max time for this?

Any tips appreciated. It's not urgent, not arisen yet,, just in case... (I'm a belt n braces guy)

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(For England & Wales ASTs)

Say the place you were moving to becomes unavailable or the tenants there are late moving out, yet you're due out of your current rental on a certain date...

What happens? Can the landlord evict you any faster than 2 months or even sooner if he has a tenant booked to come in to yours?

How much can the landlord charge you for renting beyond the notice period's last day? Is there a max time for this?

Any tips appreciated. It's not urgent, not arisen yet,, just in case... (I'm a belt n braces guy)

If you cant move out on the last day of your fixed term then it becomes a periodic regardless of if you have been served notice/you have served notice. You will then be liable to give one months clear notice to leave and you will be required to pay a months rent, regardless is you move out earlier or not. This is the most the landlord can ask form you. If he has served you with a correctly dated section 21 notice, he will be able to start court action to remove you. Again this is likley to take more than a month. You would be liable for the landlords court fees.

If you have signed an AST already to move into a new property and you cant because the tenants havent left, the landlord would be responsible for any reasonable costs youy incurred in finding a new place etc.

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(For England & Wales ASTs)

Say the place you were moving to becomes unavailable or the tenants there are late moving out, yet you're due out of your current rental on a certain date...

What happens? Can the landlord evict you any faster than 2 months or even sooner if he has a tenant booked to come in to yours?

How much can the landlord charge you for renting beyond the notice period's last day? Is there a max time for this?

Any tips appreciated. It's not urgent, not arisen yet,, just in case... (I'm a belt n braces guy)

as long as you keep paying rent and the LL keeps accepting it you are in a legally protected SPT, the rent stays the same until a section 13 notice is issued to increase it if the LL wants to... as you rightly said the notice period is 2 months and your one months (two or one whole periods don't forgot, if you pay rent on the 1st and give notice on the second you have to wait nearly two months)

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as long as you keep paying rent and the LL keeps accepting it you are in a legally protected SPT, the rent stays the same until a section 13 notice is issued to increase it if the LL wants to... as you rightly said the notice period is 2 months and your one months (two or one whole periods don't forgot, if you pay rent on the 1st and give notice on the second you have to wait nearly two months)

Even if you dont pay the rent it becomes a periodic, until the landlord gets a court order to remove you. Of course you will be liable for the unpaid rent on top of the landlords court costs.

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Even if you dont pay the rent it becomes a periodic, until the landlord gets a court order to remove you. Of course you will be liable for the unpaid rent on top of the landlords court costs.

true true, btw Planner I was wrong on the 12 month no rent increase thing for an SPT, the LL can issue a section 48 when ever they like, it would though they have to wait 12 months to do it again....

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true true, btw Planner I was wrong on the 12 month no rent increase thing for an SPT, the LL can issue a section 48 when ever they like, it would though they have to wait 12 months to do it again....

That would be section 13! as it been a long day Matt!!! ;)

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That would be section 13! as it been a long day Matt!!! ;)

It certainly has, 48's 13's, 8's 21's , 77, 85, 87, 88 04 all a blur to me today :(

Edited by Matt Henson

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Thank you, kind folk, can I just clarify and explain myself a bit better...

My AST is a couple of years since start now and if I wish to leave I have to give 1 month's Notice.

My rent's due on the 24th, so last day I can give Notice of one month is 23rd of any month (or nearest working day) and that means I promise to be out by the day before my next rent would be due (23rd of course).

However, say I give Notice on the 23rd of July, in the belief that the next place I'm going to is all sorted and ready for me to move into on the say 20th of August - but then disaster strikes and on the 19th of August the landlord of the new place rings me up and says "Last Bear, my ill daughter is still in the flat you were going to rent. She can't move out. I've refunded all your rent and deposit but you can't have the flat."

If I go back to my current landlord and say "Er, I can't move out on the 20th now, in fact I can't move out for at least another 3 weeks!" - what can the landlord legally do?

And what can they legally charge me for staying beyond what was expected?

Do I have to pay in one month chunks or can I be billed weekly if I only stay an extra week or two?

Thanks.

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The best scenario is that the LL either just says "settle up on a pro rata basis when you leave" or issues you with a "holiday let " contract (slightly doubtful legally, but does the job for two or three weeks).

The worst case scenario is that the LL has litigious tenants booked to come in, who put their stuff in storage and sue the LL for storage and hotel bills till they can move in. In this case, as it was directly due to your failure to move out and you were in breach of contract, the LL might have a case against you for recovery of those costs. I think here you would be into ordinary contract law, which would give you less protection than LL/Tenant law. Then you would have to sue YOUR new LL who would have to sue his existing tenant .... and so the long day rolls on and the lawyers get richer.

However, I am not a lawyer! Get professional advice about what the maximum downside is!

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The best scenario is that the LL either just says "settle up on a pro rata basis when you leave" or issues you with a "holiday let " contract (slightly doubtful legally, but does the job for two or three weeks).

The worst case scenario is that the LL has litigious tenants booked to come in, who put their stuff in storage and sue the LL for storage and hotel bills till they can move in. In this case, as it was directly due to your failure to move out and you were in breach of contract, the LL might have a case against you for recovery of those costs. I think here you would be into ordinary contract law, which would give you less protection than LL/Tenant law. Then you would have to sue YOUR new LL who would have to sue his existing tenant .... and so the long day rolls on and the lawyers get richer.

However, I am not a lawyer! Get professional advice about what the maximum downside is!

Interesting! Thanks Carti.

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The best scenario is that the LL either just says "settle up on a pro rata basis when you leave" or issues you with a "holiday let " contract (slightly doubtful legally, but does the job for two or three weeks).

The worst case scenario is that the LL has litigious tenants booked to come in, who put their stuff in storage and sue the LL for storage and hotel bills till they can move in. In this case, as it was directly due to your failure to move out and you were in breach of contract, the LL might have a case against you for recovery of those costs. I think here you would be into ordinary contract law, which would give you less protection than LL/Tenant law. Then you would have to sue YOUR new LL who would have to sue his existing tenant .... and so the long day rolls on and the lawyers get richer.

However, I am not a lawyer! Get professional advice about what the maximum downside is!

The landlord would have no claim against you for storage/hotel bills etc of other peoples belongings. The house is still yours under a periodic tenancy until the landlord gets a court order to remove you. If a landlord has promised (i.e. signed an AST) the property to someone else without first regaining posession then thats their own fault.

No new tenancy i.e. holiday let etc is required as you still have a statutory periodic. If the landlord is happy for you to pay rent pro rata then fine otherwise, a furher month would be due.

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The landlord would have no claim against you for storage/hotel bills etc of other peoples belongings. The house is still yours under a periodic tenancy until the landlord gets a court order to remove you. If a landlord has promised (i.e. signed an AST) the property to someone else without first regaining posession then thats their own fault.

No new tenancy i.e. holiday let etc is required as you still have a statutory periodic. If the landlord is happy for you to pay rent pro rata then fine otherwise, a furher month would be due.

I'm not convinced about this. Certainly, the LL can't evict you without a court order, but that's not quite the same thing as saying you have a right to be there! You can't evict squatters without a court order, but that doesn't stop you pursuing them for damages (if you can find them).

Given the disparity of opinions here, the clear answer is that you should see a lawyer, preferably one who specialises in Landlord & tenant.

This may of course be a tempest in a teapot - most prudent LLs assume that they are going to have a gap of a week or two at least in which to do repairs etc, even if they've got another tenant lined up.

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I'm not convinced about this. Certainly, the LL can't evict you without a court order, but that's not quite the same thing as saying you have a right to be there! You can't evict squatters without a court order, but that doesn't stop you pursuing them for damages (if you can find them).

Given the disparity of opinions here, the clear answer is that you should see a lawyer, preferably one who specialises in Landlord & tenant.

This may of course be a tempest in a teapot - most prudent LLs assume that they are going to have a gap of a week or two at least in which to do repairs etc, even if they've got another tenant lined up.

Of course you have a right to be there. A tenancy can only be "officially" ended through obtaining a court order. The landlord has granted a tenancy for a property and has then decided to give the property to someone else before, they have ended the previous tenancy. This is the landlords mistake.

Its quite a different situation than squatters, who dont have a right to be there. The landlord has given you the right to be there through the grant of an AST.

No lawyer is required, the only costs due would be rent and any court costs to obtain an order to end the tenancy.

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Of course you have a right to be there. A tenancy can only be "officially" ended through obtaining a court order. The landlord has granted a tenancy for a property and has then decided to give the property to someone else before, they have ended the previous tenancy. This is the landlords mistake.

Its quite a different situation than squatters, who dont have a right to be there. The landlord has given you the right to be there through the grant of an AST.

No lawyer is required, the only costs due would be rent and any court costs to obtain an order to end the tenancy.

I always plan 2-4 weeks of overlap, I know it costs extra rent but it reduces the stress no end as it gives you time to straighten up the new place and move in and time to clean up the old place with all your furnature out to ensure the return of your deposit.

It also allows for some contingency if disaster strikes, Planner is spot on, but more likley the old tenant in the new place won't have their act together and will still be frantically shifting stuff the day you are supposed to move in and leave the place a dump.

As I said depends entirely if you can afford it

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In the case we are discussing, the tenant has given formal notice to end the contract (the words "end the contract" are rather important here!) and then turns round and says "April Fool! I'm not moving out"

In these circumstances the contract IS at an end and the rules about getting a court order are just to stop unscrupulous landlords sending in the boys with baseball bats.

Obviously, the LL can't also accept rent for the period after the end of the contract.

The OP might like to try the MSE website - they do seem to have a resident property lawyer there. But I still think you might be open to a claim for damages against you.

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In the case we are discussing, the tenant has given formal notice to end the contract (the words "end the contract" are rather important here!) and then turns round and says "April Fool! I'm not moving out"

In these circumstances the contract IS at an end and the rules about getting a court order are just to stop unscrupulous landlords sending in the boys with baseball bats.

Obviously, the LL can't also accept rent for the period after the end of the contract.

The OP might like to try the MSE website - they do seem to have a resident property lawyer there. But I still think you might be open to a claim for damages against you.

Again your wrong. It makes no difference if the tenant has given notice and then revokes it. An AST can only be officially ended via a court order. The notice the tenant has given, isnt worth the paper it is or isnt written on. Its a foolish landlord that signs an AST with new tenants without first regaining posession of the property. The AST shouldnt be signed until the day the new tenants are due to move in, or at the very least when the old tenants have left.

The contract doesnt end until a) the tenant leaves and hands over the keys or B) the landlord gets a court order and removes the tenant. Until that point the tenant continues to enjoy the full statutory rights of a periodic tenancy.

You are sugegsting that the tenancy comes to a end once the tenant overstays their notice (ehat does the tenant then become... a suatter?) is both incorrect and extremely detrimental to the rights of the landlord. Unless of course you think it would be in a landlords interest for the statutory mechanisms for removal (s.21 & s.8) be removed from their arsenal when a tenant overstays their notice, is that what you are suggesting?

Edited by Planner

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A very big thanks to ALL posters on this thread for this discussion, much appreciate your time. THANK YOU.

I've no intention of becoming a squatter or staying longer and suddenly rent-free, I just want to know what my rights are if disaster strikes (eg next place falls through or I get ill and can't move).

Just out of interest, with a court order, who is authorised to physically evict me if ever I became a naughty tenant due for eviction? Is it large lads (or lasses, I'm thinking equality now!) or what? Do they lift me up from the floor kicking and screaming (or more likely laughing uncontrollably in my case!) and put me in the street on the footpath? Or do they use more cunning means like wait until I go out and then change the locks in my absence? Or even more cunning means...stand a page 3 stunna in the street beckoning to me and winking from her sports car, causing me to rush into the street and... Well, you can guess the rest. :)

In the case we are discussing, the tenant has given formal notice to end the contract (the words "end the contract" are rather important here!) and then turns round and says "April Fool! I'm not moving out"
:)
In these circumstances the contract IS at an end and the rules about getting a court order are just to stop unscrupulous landlords sending in the boys with baseball bats.

Obviously, the LL can't also accept rent for the period after the end of the contract.

Definitely couldn't play baseball, reception room is too small, they should go to a park.

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A very big thanks to ALL posters on this thread for this discussion, much appreciate your time. THANK YOU.

I've no intention of becoming a squatter or staying longer and suddenly rent-free, I just want to know what my rights are if disaster strikes (eg next place falls through or I get ill and can't move).

Just out of interest, with a court order, who is authorised to physically evict me if ever I became a naughty tenant due for eviction? Is it large lads (or lasses, I'm thinking equality now!) or what? Do they lift me up from the floor kicking and screaming (or more likely laughing uncontrollably in my case!) and put me in the street on the footpath? Or do they use more cunning means like wait until I go out and then change the locks in my absence? Or even more cunning means...stand a page 3 stunna in the street beckoning to me and winking from her sports car, causing me to rush into the street and... Well, you can guess the rest. :)

:)

Definitely couldn't play baseball, reception room is too small, they should go to a park.

The County Court baliffs I believe, in otherwords a bunch a tamed burly bloke who will kindly ask you to leave while emptying your possesions on to the street and change the locks. They won't use violence but they can ask the police to detain you if you try and stop them as you have no legal right to be on the property once an eviction order has been issued.... eek

Edited by Matt Henson

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The County Court baliffs I believe, in otherwords a bunch a tamed burly bloke who will kindly ask you to leave while emptying your possesions on to the street and change the locks. They won't use violence but they can ask the police to detain you if you try and stop them as you have no legal right to be on the property once an eviction order has been issued.... eek

Tell you what, there's so many large spiders in this flat that even the big burly blokes will run off when I point them out.

"Erm, you're not supposed to be here any more mate, we've an eviction orde...rrrrrrr....Yikes! WHAT THE HELL'S THAT ON THE CELING?!?! Aaaaarrrggghhhhh!!!"

[all bailiffs gone, leaving me standing in the kitchen with the tea and biscuits I'd made them]

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The period from the LL deciding he wants you out (whether his notice has expired or yours) to the point where you are standing on the street surrounded by your belongings is never likely to be less than about three months, more likely 6. Even if the LL has indisputable grounds for possession that the Court can't argue with, the Court hearing is going to take weeks to arrange, then the court has discretion to delay the eviction for a bit, and the eviction itself will take time to arrange (limited number of authorised bailiffs) and you have to be given notice.....

All reasons why LL & LAs are so fussy about references!

A quick cruise round the web has plenty on tenants suing LL for damages re evictions, but nothing that a ten-minute search produced on the LL suing the tenants for losses incurred. Probably because the tenant is usually a man of straw in these cases; but I don't see why normal laws of contract shouldn't apply.

Short answer - try very hard not to be in this situation! It would be very stressful. It's normally worth planning in an overlap anyway - even a day or two is enormously helpful and well worth the extra rent not to have to do all your moving in one fell swoop (& avoids landmines like finding someone has turned the water off in your new home and you can't find the stopcock - even if you can get some recompense from the LL it's not worth the hassle.)

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Tell you what, there's so many large spiders in this flat that even the big burly blokes will run off when I point them out.

"Erm, you're not supposed to be here any more mate, we've an eviction orde...rrrrrrr....Yikes! WHAT THE HELL'S THAT ON THE CELING?!?! Aaaaarrrggghhhhh!!!"

[all bailiffs gone, leaving me standing in the kitchen with the tea and biscuits I'd made them]

All the spiders in my house are those spindley things with tiny bodies and long legs, they wouldn't even frighten a fly or my ex-wife!!!

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All the spiders in my house are those spindley things with tiny bodies and long legs, they wouldn't even frighten a fly or my ex-wife!!!

Oh this place has got scores of those, I'm on first name terms with some of them. I said to one of them, "Do you know they named a car wheel brace tool after you?" He replied, "What, called Gerald!?"

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  • 399 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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