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nikaso

Vendor Denial And Ea Putting On Brave Face

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Last week I went into a local EA to place an offer on a flat I had viewed the previous weekend, flat is on at asking price of £139,995 and Land Registry tells me the current vendor bought it new in June 2005 for £148,915.

Property snake says:

03 Mar 2008 First day listed (price £146,995)

19 May 2008 Price changed from £146,995 to £139,995

I explained to the EA that I wanted to make an offer but it was indicative of the market trend IMHO and to treat as a backup offer if they wished, to this end I offered £95,000 (circa 32% drop) and the EA actually sniggered and told me I was being a bit optimistic (in a nice patronising tone! <_< ) but said they would pass it on.

EA rings me back today and says the vendor is not accepting anything less than the asking price!! (I get the feeling the EA has advised them to do this??)

EA then says "I'll keep your name down so you can make a larger offer when you feel able" :D:D

Well, my partner and I are FTB'ers with a nice large deposit saved and in no hurry, will keep tabs on it and see how long till Vendor and EA have to eat humble pie, (maybe Krusty's hat too).

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Nice one - you couldn't have expected any other reaction though at this stage. My own experience in making "cheeky" or "insulting" offers (as they are laughingly called - try changing your "cheeky" asking price then mate) has been for the Agent to have me down as a time waster and to keep me at arms length. I find that the best strategy now is to admit that any offer that you are likely to make would be substantially beneath the asking price as it stands at the moment and request that your interest be borne in mind should the sellers' expectations reduce say of the order of 20% to 25%. Then it's up to the agent to encourage you or not. Patience is required - part of the game!

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I thinks thats the way I'm going to play it in future, register interest without making a formal offer per se. I'm very much looking forward to being able to go back to the EA in 6 months time or so and see what their attitude is like! (If they are even still open!)

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Very wise Nikaso, you sound like you've got your head screwed on.

I'm in almost the same boat - I am looking at properties valued at around £140k now, but realistically I can't pay more than 100k, so I'll be interested if you have any luck going in at that price this early (long term no doubt). You may stumble across someone desperate to sell anyway.

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I'll keep you posted, just come across another property, nice 3 bed semi on at £159,995 reduced from £179,995 2 months ago. Seperated single mum with 2 kids who can't afford mortgage anymore and is desperate to sell, considering offering £120K to reflect a similar percentage drop from asking price so will see how that goes too.

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I'll keep you posted, just come across another property, nice 3 bed semi on at £159,995 reduced from £179,995 2 months ago. Seperated single mum with 2 kids who can't afford mortgage anymore and is desperate to sell, considering offering £120K to reflect a similar percentage drop from asking price so will see how that goes too.

Remember that it might not be as simple as whether or not she would accept your 120k offer or not - she might be in hock to the bank for, say, 140-150k so is not able to sell for lower than their secured loan to her. That's why a lot of these folks will be repossessed or send "jingle mail" (keys through the bank letter box), as even if they could find a buyer at a realistic price, with cash, their high LTV means they are stranded high and dry - as I was after the 90's crash for many years, with negative equity. With vendors like her, other experienced posters on here appear to recommend avoiding wasting any time by asking the EA what she owes on her mortgage right off the bat.

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Remember that it might not be as simple as whether or not she would accept your 120k offer or not - she might be in hock to the bank for, say, 140-150k so is not able to sell for lower than their secured loan to her. That's why a lot of these folks will be repossessed or send "jingle mail" (keys through the bank letter box), as even if they could find a buyer at a realistic price, with cash, their high LTV means they are stranded high and dry - as I was after the 90's crash for many years, with negative equity. With vendors like her, other experienced posters on here appear to recommend avoiding wasting any time by asking the EA what she owes on her mortgage right off the bat.

I didn't know the EA would know/could tell me that? I appreciate she may trapped in there so might have to wait till it comes up as a repo, feel bad for her though because she seems like a really good mother (kids well behaved) and sounds like she has just been screwed by her ex.

Well I suppose you have to be quite cold about these things! :unsure:

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Why are people bothering to put in offers of 30% below asking? Buyers and EA's think a cheeky offer is 10% off, it sounds to me like a waste of time even viewing until desparation sets in.

I'm happy to put in a cheeky offer of 10% off; I'll just wait until 2011 and offer 10% off an asking that's already been cut 40%.

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Why are people bothering to put in offers of 30% below asking? Buyers and EA's think a cheeky offer is 10% off, it sounds to me like a waste of time even viewing until desparation sets in.

I'm happy to put in a cheeky offer of 10% off; I'll just wait until 2011 and offer 10% off an asking that's already been cut 40%.

Well you can do it to wind the EA's up and place a seed of doubt in the vendor's mind, if they are only getting cheeky offers then maybe they will start to realise that the cheeky offers aren't actually so cheeky after all

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Cant see why anyone would accept 30%+ off a home at the moment. House prices have fallen 10% or so and with most so called expert suggesting drops of 20-25% of the next few years owners may as well wait till the market bottoms out before they accept offers of 30% off. For me anyone trying buy now will be lucky to get more than 15% off last years prices unless they find forced sellers on the verge of repossession with lots of equity.

Mosts people I know are still of the opinion that houseprices will start to rise within the next few months. IMO opinion people are at least 6-12 months away from sellers accepting anywhere near 30% off unless they are very desperate and at the moment there do not seem to be too many desperate sellers about where I live.

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Cant see why anyone would accept 30%+ off a home at the moment. House prices have fallen 10% or so and with most so called expert suggesting drops of 20-25% of the next few years owners may as well wait till the market bottoms out before they accept offers of 30% off. For me anyone trying buy now will be lucky to get more than 15% off last years prices unless they find forced sellers on the verge of repossession with lots of equity.

Mosts people I know are still of the opinion that houseprices will start to rise within the next few months. IMO opinion people are at least 6-12 months away from sellers accepting anywhere near 30% off unless they are very desperate and at the moment there do not seem to be too many desperate sellers about where I live.

Well if you saw the BBC news this morning you may think different. The EA on there was saying they are already seeing 25% off offers accepted. So 30% is not cheeky in this climate at all. It's a pretty sensible offer. In a completely neutral market 10% off was always the accepted amount to offer. In this climate you'd be stupid not to go 25% or 30% quite frankly.

Re the outstanding amount someone may own - surely it is much better for them to take a much smaller hit now than wait another year, be much more in debt and take an even bigger loss. If you are in negative equity now and have to sell surely the most sensible thing is to get out as quickly as possible. £30k on debt now or £70k in two years time?

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Well if you saw the BBC news this morning you may think different. The EA on there was saying they are already seeing 25% off offers accepted. So 30% is not cheeky in this climate at all. It's a pretty sensible offer. In a completely neutral market 10% off was always the accepted amount to offer. In this climate you'd be stupid not to go 25% or 30% quite frankly.

Re the outstanding amount someone may own - surely it is much better for them to take a much smaller hit now than wait another year, be much more in debt and take an even bigger loss. If you are in negative equity now and have to sell surely the most sensible thing is to get out as quickly as possible. £30k on debt now or £70k in two years time?

There is a difference between 25% off the asking price and 25% of what a property is worth. I sold in July 2007 for £270K. The property next door came on at £295K even though it is in worse condition than mine was. its still on the market for £235K. I'm talking about 30% off top sold prices of last year not 30% off the fantasy prices some agents and sellers are pricing properties at the moment.

As for taking a smaller hit now, if property prices fall 30% over five years then there no difference selling now for 30% less than waiting 6 years to prices start to rise again.

of course there are go

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You could try and get a few other people to ghost the property before you view and make an offer?

The plot is to have a few independent people view the property who then make disparaging remarks and tell the EA and owner if possible that the property is overpriced.

Then when you put in your real offer it may not come as quite such a shock. :blink:

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Well if you saw the BBC news this morning you may think different. The EA on there was saying they are already seeing 25% off offers accepted. So 30% is not cheeky in this climate at all. It's a pretty sensible offer. In a completely neutral market 10% off was always the accepted amount to offer. In this climate you'd be stupid not to go 25% or 30% quite frankly.

Re the outstanding amount someone may own - surely it is much better for them to take a much smaller hit now than wait another year, be much more in debt and take an even bigger loss. If you are in negative equity now and have to sell surely the most sensible thing is to get out as quickly as possible. £30k on debt now or £70k in two years time?

Jim B - I don't think it is possible to sell a house if you are in NE, since the owner of the house is the bank (not the person living there who merely owns a mortgage!) therefore this would mean that the bank would have to agree to sell the house for less than they are owed.

In practise I believe they never do this unless the owner borrows an unsecured loan to pay into the bank to top up the equity to positive level. In other words for your example of "£30k debt now" NE sale to go through, the vendor has to walk away from the house and pay the bank 30k from god alone knows where to allow the sale to go through. But it remains to be seen if banks will waiver more debt in future in NE cases where the bank's a;ternative is to run up legal costs in seeking reposession, then taking a bigger loss at auction, in repayment delinquency cases. They are doing this is the states I believe, in some cases.

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Jim B - I don't think it is possible to sell a house if you are in NE, since the owner of the house is the bank (not the person living there who merely owns a mortgage!) therefore this would mean that the bank would have to agree to sell the house for less than they are owed.

In practise I believe they never do this unless the owner borrows an unsecured loan to pay into the bank to top up the equity to positive level. In other words for your example of "£30k debt now" NE sale to go through, the vendor has to walk away from the house and pay the bank 30k from god alone knows where to allow the sale to go through. But it remains to be seen if banks will waiver more debt in future in NE cases where the bank's a;ternative is to run up legal costs in seeking reposession, then taking a bigger loss at auction, in repayment delinquency cases. They are doing this is the states I believe, in some cases.

You are quite right about the NE situation. But as long as you were not going into negative equity it would make sense would it not?

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You are quite right about the NE situation. But as long as you were not going into negative equity it would make sense would it not?

Absolutely. Right now my step-brother is following the market down, put his 1960's 2 bedroom (Kent) maisonette onto the market a few months ago for 154k, then is lowering it every month by a couple of grand, when he is getting about 1 viewing monthly. He based his pricing on other similar ones, and ignored advice to take a big hit now and go 20-30k under the competition (mortgage of 70k so he has the leeway). Eventually he will end up selling it in 2010 for, if he is lucky, a shade more than he owes on it, circa 80k I reckon, when he could have sold it by now for circa 120k by being cheap as chips and fooling some investor who thinks the market has bottomed. Ho hum, what can you do

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''Mosts people I know are still of the opinion that houseprices will start to rise within the next few months''

I suggest you find yourself a new group of people to mix with who are not quite so stupid!

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I didn't know the EA would know/could tell me that? I appreciate she may trapped in there so might have to wait till it comes up as a repo, feel bad for her though because she seems like a really good mother (kids well behaved) and sounds like she has just been screwed by her ex.

Well I suppose you have to be quite cold about these things! :unsure:

That's quite right mate, doesn't matter about her and her kids, bend her over and f*** her up the ar5e!

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That's quite right mate, doesn't matter about her and her kids, bend her over and f*** her up the ar5e!

Surely its better she has SOMEONE to buy it instead of no one??

Or do you think its better to just avoid it and feel sorry for her? That will pay her mortgage off won't it <_<

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It must be really frightening to have to sell a house that’s in negative equity because you can no longer afford the mortgage especially when they see the neighbours selling the same sort of house for vastly less than they can afford to drop.

We have just sold a flat in London. fortunately it was an inheritance property with no mortgage. We looked at similar properties for sale along the road to make sure we marketed it beneath our competitors and we took the second offer on the place which was 20% under asking price.

To be honest I just think we were lucky but we also understood that we needed to be sensible.

A small percentage of something is far better than a big percentage of nothing. ^_^

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Remember that it might not be as simple as whether or not she would accept your 120k offer or not - she might be in hock to the bank for, say, 140-150k so is not able to sell for lower than their secured loan to her. That's why a lot of these folks will be repossessed or send "jingle mail" (keys through the bank letter box), as even if they could find a buyer at a realistic price, with cash, their high LTV means they are stranded high and dry - as I was after the 90's crash for many years, with negative equity. With vendors like her, other experienced posters on here appear to recommend avoiding wasting any time by asking the EA what she owes on her mortgage right off the bat.

CB is quite right.

This is nothing to do with 'vendor denial'. She quite obviously has a mortgage of at least 90% of what she paid for the property. Therefore she simply cannot accept an offer below the current asking price.

Her choices are simple; sell at a price which allows her to pay off the mortgage, stay put and carry on paying the mortgage, or get repossesed.

She's tried the first and it's not working. As prices fall further she's going to have to decide between the other two options.

Millions of people are going to find themselves in the same situation over the next few years. As values fall, more and more people are unable to sell.

Those wanting to buy a bargain at the bottom of the market need to look at repossessions or properties without big mortgages on them - typically the houses of people who have died and whose kids want to cash in quickly.

'Cheeky' offers to highly mortgaged recent FTBers are a total waste of time.

Edited by Mr Yogi

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i sold my house in april for 15% less than it's average valuation 6 months previous bacause I feared a property crash. At the time it pinched and the buyers had a slightly apologetic tone when we spoke several times about getting me to reduce the price by so much. In may I still felt pretty raw. In june i felt happy that I'd sold for the right price. Now I feel down right smug about the whole thing.

My advice to anyone selling is take the price hit now and move onwards and upwards.

Edited by researchmug

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It must be really frightening to have to sell a house that’s in negative equity because you can no longer afford the mortgage especially when they see the neighbours selling the same sort of house for vastly less than they can afford to drop.

We have just sold a flat in London. fortunately it was an inheritance property with no mortgage. We looked at similar properties for sale along the road to make sure we marketed it beneath our competitors and we took the second offer on the place which was 20% under asking price.

To be honest I just think we were lucky but we also understood that we needed to be sensible.

A small percentage of something is far better than a big percentage of nothing. ^_^

Very sensible, you were lucky to be able to sell it when you did.

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  • 395 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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