Centrica Boss Says Wear Two Jumpers

[cartimandua51]

I would say what the eye don't see the heart don't contemplate! F@OK EM. Do what you want. Just don't get caught.

YOU might be able to! I, however, have no illusions about my ability to get a woodburning stove to talk to the rest of the central heating system... If the builder says No can do, I'm F@@ked.

[eightiesgirly]

ditto, we did not have central heating until I was 12 (and my dad installed it himself, being an impecunious teacher). I can't recall ever being cold, we had a coal fire in the evening and of course in the daytime we ran around a lot and wore jumpers... and we had a bath once a week so not so much hot water either.

But in the words of the 4 yorkshiremen sketch "And you try and tell the young people of today that... they won't believe you."

I had a 'chilly' childhood and it's awful. I don't want to repeat the experience if I can help it.

I do hope this or the next government gets it's a$$ in gear before we all return to the ice on the inside of the window days.

I think it was O.K. in former years as no one had anything else. There was no expectation of anything else.

Going from luxury to austerity tends to be difficult to accept. We have had a very comfortable few decades.

[Kurt Barlow]

I have a very vague recollection of reading somewhere about someone who wanted to do this, and the builders/ plumbers said "No can do, against Govt / building Regs" - something to do with boiler efficiency requirements.

Does anyone out there have any knowledge of this, or is it something I've wrapped round my head all wrong?

Edit: this was someone who already had gas CH but wanted to supplement with wood / coal they were burning anyway.

That sums up a lot of plumbers / the construction industry in the Uk.

You Can can link a stove to a central heating system - providing its an open system - with a header tank for expansion and you use a neutraliser

See link for Dunsley neutraliser

http://www.dunsleyheat.co.uk/linkupsys.htm

Edited July 19, 2008 by Kurt Barlow

[huw]

No chimneys in my house at all, so no fires. Some bright spark removed every single chimney breast in this house, for the extra few feet of room I would imagine.

Was like this when I moved in, didn't seem such a big deal 20 years ago.

You could always just have a stove pipe (i.e. no chimney).

[SarahBell]

You could always just have a stove pipe (i.e. no chimney).

I would assume this meant more air warmed in the room rather than in a chimney

[mbga9pgf]

I would assume this meant more air warmed in the room rather than in a chimney

and carbon monoxide poisoning.

No. I think what is meant is a pipe which is installed that vents to outside. If you have no purpose built chimney, that means building work to install one.

On the building regs ref boiler efficiency, most modern designed wood burners reach 70%+ efficiency. I cant imagine a gas fired boiler being far off that...

[huw]

I would assume this meant more air warmed in the room rather than in a chimney

Would have thought so, though some stove pipes (the more expensive ones) have double-skin insulation to stop them sooting up so much, which presumably stops the heat from coming out into the room.

[Kurt Barlow]

You could always just have a stove pipe (i.e. no chimney).

Im looking into this right now - but twin wall flue pipe is mega expensive

For a decent contemporary stove and flue Im looking at £2300. And thats doing it DIY

[Jonnybegood]

Interested in this - does the stove provide hot water for washing / central heating? Or is it just convective / radiant heat?

For now its just a room heater as this is all we wanted, although it does come with the option to fit a boiler at a later date which is capable of 10,000BTU.

We felt that gas was convenient for showering and warming the house in the morning before we get up, after work between October and March we light the stove and leave it burn all evening.

The next thing to trial will be to leave the stove in overnight removing the need for heating the house in the morning with gas, the best way I found to keep the household happy was to fit a thermostat and let that control when gas is used, which at the moment is very little.

[SarahBell]

and carbon monoxide poisoning.

No. I think what is meant is a pipe which is installed that vents to outside. If you have no purpose built chimney, that means building work to install one.

On the building regs ref boiler efficiency, most modern designed wood burners reach 70%+ efficiency. I cant imagine a gas fired boiler being far off that...

I meant a pipe that goes up through the room and vents somewhere outside obviously.

On lots of these grand design things the pipe is on show rather than disappearing into a chimney

[Kurt Barlow]

I meant a pipe that goes up through the room and vents somewhere outside obviously.

On lots of these grand design things the pipe is on show rather than disappearing into a chimney

Other than a shor length of enamel pipe the rest needs to be twin wall pipe which is insulated. If the flue gases cool too rapidly you get tar build up in the pipe

http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning...lated-flue.html

[huw]

Im looking into this right now - but twin wall flue pipe is mega expensive

For a decent contemporary stove and flue Im looking at £2300. And thats doing it DIY

As far as I know the only advantage of the double skin stuff is that you get less condensation and so less sooting up, an efficient burner + an access hatch for sweeping the flue should work around this?

[Kurt Barlow]

As far as I know the only advantage of the double skin stuff is that you get less condensation and so less sooting up, an efficient burner + an access hatch for sweeping the flue should work around this?

If you havent got a chimney then you have to use twin wall. Single skin running up through the house would be red hot and a potential fire hazard. When this is run up through a chimeny the chimney is blocked at the base and then back filled with vermiculite to act as an insulator.

BTW - Huw - I havent got a chimney!

Edited July 19, 2008 by Kurt Barlow

[huw]

If you havent got a chimney then you have to use twin wall. Single skin running up through the house would be red hot and a potential fire hazard. When this is run up through a chimeny the chimney is blocked at the base and then back filled with vermiculite to act as an insulator.

BTW - Huw - I havent got a chimney!

Ah right, I have single skin going up into the chimney.

[yawnIHateSundays]

For now its just a room heater as this is all we wanted, although it does come with the option to fit a boiler at a later date which is capable of 10,000BTU.

We felt that gas was convenient for showering and warming the house in the morning before we get up, after work between October and March we light the stove and leave it burn all evening.

The next thing to trial will be to leave the stove in overnight removing the need for heating the house in the morning with gas, the best way I found to keep the household happy was to fit a thermostat and let that control when gas is used, which at the moment is very little.

Ah OK thanks. I had been looking at woodstoves and there is an option for a back boiler facility on some, the only hassle is the plumbing, as it would typically be in the living room.

At the moment we have an open fire in the living room and use coal/wood (we back onto woodland) only occasionally in winter, but I can see it getting more attractive in future.

[Jonnybegood]

Ah OK thanks. I had been looking at woodstoves and there is an option for a back boiler facility on some, the only hassle is the plumbing, as it would typically be in the living room.

At the moment we have an open fire in the living room and use coal/wood (we back onto woodland) only occasionally in winter, but I can see it getting more attractive in future.

An open fire is around 25% efficient a good stove 70%+.

It would not take alot to have a stove replace the open fire, the chimney must already be in decent condition and will probably not need lining saving £400+, just get it swept once a year.

A decent stove starts at around £450 going upto £2200, the CH / Hot water systems can cost anything from £2000 to £4000+ fully installed

[zceb90]

I have a very vague recollection of reading somewhere about someone who wanted to do this, and the builders/ plumbers said "No can do, against Govt / building Regs" - something to do with boiler efficiency requirements.

Does anyone out there have any knowledge of this, or is it something I've wrapped round my head all wrong?

Edit: this was someone who already had gas CH but wanted to supplement with wood / coal they were burning anyway.

To my knowledge boiler efficiency is not an issue with wood stoves - friends in this area have a woodstove with a back boiler installed and my local installer handles this kind of job regularly. Two reasons I'd suggest as to why the reasons quoted not to install make no sense:

1) If the boiler is not as efficient as a modern condensing (normally gas fired) boiler so what? The majority of the heat not used to heat the water simply heats the house instead; very little heat is lost up the chimney in modern wood stoves.

2) The fuel being used is renewable and right now is probably simply being dumped or left to rot in the ground if it's not used in the (still) relatively small number of wood stoves. Businesses in my area regularly burn wood on a bonfire rather than pay landfill fees. The CO2 impact of burning such wood in wood stoves is neutral as leaving wood to rot releases carbon anyway; furthermore wood sequests carbon in a biological timescale (as opposed to fossil fuels which sequest carbon in a geological timescale).

Having said that the majority of households in my area have no mains gas - it's possible that regs are more stringent in areas with gas supplies.

[right_freds_dead]

I'd be able to get by like that easily enough living in the South, but i'm not so sure about those living up north.

does anyone know where i can find 2 long, slim whippet shaped jumpers ?

[zceb90]

Im looking into this right now - but twin wall flue pipe is mega expensive

For a decent contemporary stove and flue Im looking at £2300. And thats doing it DIY

My local wood stove installer recently told me cost of flue pipe (used where no chimney exists) is around £150+VAT per metre. For those with chimneys a liner is strongly recommended (and may be an insurance / building regs requirement) - such liners still cost £100+VAT per metre.

I've had 2 wood stoves installed where there were existing chimneys; I'm now looking to install a small wood stove in a separate outbuilding (my computer room!) where there's no chimney but a relatively short flue pipe will suffice; in this way I can more or less phase out need to use an electric storage heater except for keeping out frost while I'm away.

Considerations should include:

1) What is cost and availability of wood? In my area there's all I want...for free!

2) What is current cost of fossil fuel and electricity which wood stove(s) could displace?

3) What is expected price trend of fossil fuel and electricity over the potential lifespan of wood stove (25+ years)?

4) Are there reasons to be concerned about security of existing energy supplies?

5) Are there any local restrictions re wood burning stoves (although some newer type stoves may well qualify to be used in smokeless zones)?

With regard to item 3) I would not be at all surprised to see household energy prices double within next 2 to 3 years and probably more than quadruple by 2020. As for item 4) I have very serious doubts re security of UK energy supply over the next few years, let alone to 2020, a view more than shared by petroleum geologist Euan Mearns.

Edited July 19, 2008 by zceb90

[Kurt Barlow]

My local wood stove installer recently told me cost of flue pipe (used where no chimney exists) is around £150+VAT per metre. For those with chimneys a liner is strongly recommended (and may be an insurance / building regs requirement) - such liners still cost £100+VAT per metre.

I've had 2 wood stoves installed where there were existing chimneys; I'm now looking to install a small wood stove in a separate outbuilding (my computer room!) where there's no chimney but a relatively short flue pipe will suffice; in this way I can more or less phase out need to use an electric storage heater except for keeping out frost while I'm away.

Considerations should include:

1) What is cost and availability of wood? In my area there's all I want...for free!

2) What is current cost of fossil fuel and electricity which wood stove(s) could displace?

3) What is expected price trend of fossil fuel and electricity over the potential lifespan of wood stove (25+ years)?

4) Are there reasons to be concerned about security of existing energy supplies?

5) Are there any local restrictions re wood burning stoves (although some newer type stoves may well qualify to be used in smokeless zones)?

With regard to item 3) I would not be at all surprised to see household energy prices double within next 2 to 3 years and probably more than quadruple by 2020. As for item 4) I have very serious doubts re security of UK energy supply over the next few years, let alone to 2020, a view more than shared by petroleum geologist Euan Mearns.

Hi

Good stuff

I live in a 4 bed house and gone down the super insulation route, condensing boiler, and solar water heating route.

I have got my rolling annual consumption down to 9100kwh for gas and 3600 kwh for electric. I anticipate this to level out at 8500 for gas as the solar went in last septemeber and I boosted the loft insulation to 500mm this january. Electricity consumption stubbornly high although I do cook with electric.

Im toying with buying another 20 tube panel so that I have 40 tube system - this would knock another 1500kwh off the gas. With gas consumption at 7500 kwh per annum even a tripling of price wouldnt cripple me.

So left with considering whether to put a small stove in. I say small because if I can get away with a 5 inch flue this will cut the cost a bit.

Also considering a PV array - perhaps 500w and about 500a/h of battery back up.

regards

KB

[Guest happy?]

In years to come people will be saying to one another 'Whatever happened to Jake "Two Jumpers" Ulrich?'

[Elizabeth]

In years to come people will be saying to one another 'Whatever happened to Jake "Two Jumpers" Ulrich?'

I've been wondering that

[juvenal]

Having a snuggly fleece on the couch is one of life's joys - much nicer than those old tartan picnic blankets! I can't wear wool either- except cashmere. I've built up a stock cheap off ebay - more warmth for the weight and bulk, and I have a mega hand wash every so often when I've worn them all as much as I think hygiene will allow.

You won't need fleeces or two jumpers. Running about chasing chickens in your new gaff will provide the warmth...

[tigsrenting]

does anyone know where i can find 2 long, slim whippet shaped jumpers ?

Doggywoggydoodah, George Street Hove should be able to help.

[Austin Allegro]

I tend to agree with that theory .Take bedding for example, years ago my mum just changed the sheets, the blankets were washed once a year during the spring cleaning. Now, we have sheets plus duvet covers.

At one time I remember my dad having removable collars on his shirts with studs. The collars were washed more frequently than the body of the shirt.

I wonder were we all a bit smellier then, I don't recall it being so, but I was quite young.

Yes, we were. I remember as a kid (70s) noticing that most men had a bit of a BO smell about them. I just thought at the time that was normal. Most people smelled of tobacco smoke anyway though so you didn't notice it so much.

My hint for keeping warm: thermal underwear, wool trousers (not cotton), flannel shirt, pullover, Harris tweed jacket. I look like a deputy headmaster from the 70s but I defy anyone to feel cold with that lot on.