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Snorebens

Endless Rent Increases / Notice Thereof?

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Hi all; converted lurker here

A couple of quick queries: firstly, can my long term landlord increase the rent year on year? I live in an area of London previously well known as a dump but recent years EA activity has everyone foaming at the mouth; thus 8% increases in rent yoy. Unfortunately, unlike living in Germany or elsewhere, I think I know the answer to this one.

What I am interested to know is does the LL have to give notice on this increase on rent? The AST expired back in April so it's just rolling over at the moment but she served notice of her intention to increase the rent yesterday and wants this to begin from the 1st August? Doesn't this also fall under the same rules as notice to quit i.e two months?

thanks

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Hi all; converted lurker here

A couple of quick queries: firstly, can my long term landlord increase the rent year on year? I live in an area of London previously well known as a dump but recent years EA activity has everyone foaming at the mouth; thus 8% increases in rent yoy. Unfortunately, unlike living in Germany or elsewhere, I think I know the answer to this one.

What I am interested to know is does the LL have to give notice on this increase on rent? The AST expired back in April so it's just rolling over at the moment but she served notice of her intention to increase the rent yesterday and wants this to begin from the 1st August? Doesn't this also fall under the same rules as notice to quit i.e two months?

thanks

no she can not do that... it is governed by the 1988 housing act, she is not allowed to increase the rent for 12 months once the contract enters a Statatory Periodic Rent

There after she needs to issue a section 13 notice with a one months full notice (so if you pay rent on the 1st August, she would have had to issue a section 13 notice on or before the 30th June. You can then chose if you want to leave, negociate or leave

here is the legal bit (ignore the smilleys... it is the way it cuts and pastes)

Increases of rent under assured periodic tenancies

(1) This section applies to -

(a) a statutory periodic tenancy other than one which, by virtue of paragraph 11 or paragraph 12 in Part I of Schedule 1 to this Act, cannot for the time being be an assured tenancy; and

(B) any other periodic tenancy which is an assured tenancy, other than one in relation to which there is a provision, for the time being binding on the tenant, under which the rent for a particular period of the tenancy will or may be greater than the rent for an earlier period.

(2) For the purpose of securing an increase in the rent under a tenancy to which this section applies, the landlord may serve on the tenant a notice in the prescribed form proposing a new rent to take effect at the beginning of a new period of the tenancy specified in the notice, being a period beginning not earlier than -

(a) the minimum period after the date of the service of the notice; and

(B) except in the case of a statutory periodic tenancy, the first anniversary of the date on which the first period of the tenancy began; and

© if the rent under the tenancy has previously been increased by virtue of a notice under this subsection or a determination under section 14 below, the first anniversary of the date on which the increased rent took effect.

(3) The minimum period referred to in subsection (2) above is -

(a) in the case of a yearly tenancy, six months;

(B) in the case of a tenancy where the period is less than a month, one month; and

© in any other case, a period equal to the period of the tenancy.

(4) Where a notice is served under subsection (2) above, a new rent specified in the notice shall take effect as mentioned in the notice unless, before the beginning of the new period specified in the notice, -

(a) the tenant by an application in the prescribed form refers the notice to a rent assessment committee; or

(B) the landlord and the tenant agree on a variation of the rent which is different from that proposed in the notice or agree that the rent should not be varied.

(5) Nothing in this section (or in section 14 below) affects the right of the landlord and the tenant under an assured tenancy to vary by agreement any term of the tenancy (including a term relating to rent).

Edited by Matt Henson

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Matt,

Your assuming that there is no mechanism for rent increase built into the original AST. If there is then there isnt a requirement for a section 13 notice.

Snorebens, is there a clause in your AST about annual rent increases?

Edited by Planner

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Matt,

Your assuming that there is no mechanism for rent increase built into the original AST. If there is then there isnt a requirement for a section 13 notice.

He did say the contract had gone periodic which means he now has a choice to accept the rent or not and it will need a section 13 notice

Snorebens, did the original contract have a rent increase clause and how often was it implimented?

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He did say the contract had gone periodic which means he now has a choice to accept the rent or not and it will need a section 13 notice

Snorebens, did the original contract have a rent increase clause and how often was it implimented?

I'd have to double check when at home later but I am almost certain that there is no mention of any rent ladder / increases / anything at all in relation to increased rent. In fact, I'm fairly certain it makes no mention of what happens at the end of the 1 year agreement at all (which expired April this year) which is why we've just been continuing to reside on teh basis of same rent, two months notice from either party....

Will clarify for you; many thanks

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He did say the contract had gone periodic which means he now has a choice to accept the rent or not and it will need a section 13 notice

Snorebens, did the original contract have a rent increase clause and how often was it implimented?

No he doesnt. The terms of the original contract are still valid once it becomes periodic. If there is a term in there for a yearly rent increase and he wants to stay, then the choices are to accept it, try and negotiate or move out. Periodic makes no differece to such a term.

Edited by Planner

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No he doesnt. The terms of the original contract are still valid once it becomes periodic. If there is a term in there for a yearly rent increase and he wants to stay, then the choices are to accept it, try and negotiate or move out. Periodic makes no differece to such a term.

It would appear that this rent increase is being brought in to effect randomly which would indicate it is not a contracted one and therefore subject to a section 13 notice, either way once in a periodic contract the tenant has the right to refuse and move out at a months notice do they not

Also snoreben, has the LL increased the rent before? are did they keep it the same for the duration of the 1st year? The cost to the LL is so high of losing the tenant (void and 10% annual rent finders fee) that they would be mad to stick to their guns on the 8%

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It would appear that this rent increase is being brought in to effect randomly which would indicate it is not a contracted one and therefore subject to a section 13 notice, either way once in a periodic contract the tenant has the right to refuse and move out at a months notice do they not

Also snoreben, has the LL increased the rent before? are did they keep it the same for the duration of the 1st year? The cost to the LL is so high of losing the tenant (void and 10% annual rent finders fee) that they would be mad to stick to their guns on the 8%

Yes, moved in February 2005, 6% increase after first year (March 06), around 7% last March (07) and now the new proposal... I would have kicked up a sizeable fuss before but the rent was very low when first moving in...

I did think 2 1/2 weeks notice of a further increase took the biscuit tho'.

It all comes across as a bit random as the landlady lives in Tunisia and I've never met her!

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Yes, moved in February 2005, 6% increase after first year (March 06), around 7% last March (07) and now the new proposal... I would have kicked up a sizeable fuss before but the rent was very low when first moving in...

I did think 2 1/2 weeks notice of a further increase took the biscuit tho'.

It all comes across as a bit random as the landlady lives in Tunisia and I've never met her!

Were they all separate one year contracts or did you sign up to a three year contract? if there was no rent increase clause in the contract and you are in a periodic contract she can not impliment a rent rise without a section 13 or before 12 months has elasped, the only downside of course is if you refuse to pay rent increase is that she could give you 2 months notice to leave but that may cost her more in void etc.. It is negociation, I suggestion you negociate

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Were they all separate one year contracts or did you sign up to a three year contract? if there was no rent increase clause in the contract and you are in a periodic contract she can not impliment a rent rise without a section 13 or before 12 months has elasped

That was a quick turn around Matt. Nice to see your one of the few posters on here who will admit to making a mistake.

Lets wait till the o/p gets back re the rent increase clause as per my first post.

Edited by Planner

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That was a quick turn around Matt. Nice to see your one of the few posters on here who will admit to making a mistake.

Lets wait till the o/p gets back re the rent increase clause as per my first post.

Planner, you have put me to rights before in the SOD post above and I accepted I was wrong there... I work in high end software sales and I constantly tell my guys they learn more from losing a deal than winning one and not to be ashamed of admitting to being wrong and learning how to do something right as a result.

And yes you are spot on, it actually says so in Section 13 "(5) Nothing in this section (or in section 14 below) affects the right of the landlord and the tenant under an assured tenancy to vary by agreement any term of the tenancy (including a term relating to rent)."

That said if there is no clause in the AST I stand by my claim

Edited by Matt Henson

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Planner, you have put me to rights before in the SOD post above and I accepted I was wrong there... I work in high end software sales and I constantly tell my guys they learn more from losing a deal than winning one and not to be ashamed of admitting to being wrong and learning how to do something right as a result.

And yes you are spot on, it actually says so in Section 13 "(5) Nothing in this section (or in section 14 below) affects the right of the landlord and the tenant under an assured tenancy to vary by agreement any term of the tenancy (including a term relating to rent)."

That said if there is no clause in the AST I stand by my claim

Have gone over the expired AST with a fine toothcomb - no clause.

On signing the AST last March, she did offer us a two year agreement with a far higher (!) percentage increase but we rejected that. This was never reflected in any signed agreement or document however.

So, without a section 13 being served, she cannot increase the rent for... 9 or 12 months?

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Have gone over the expired AST with a fine toothcomb - no clause.

On signing the AST last March, she did offer us a two year agreement with a far higher (!) percentage increase but we rejected that. This was never reflected in any signed agreement or document however.

So, without a section 13 being served, she cannot increase the rent for... 9 or 12 months?

Thats correct. In order to increase your rent, the LL will have to serve you a section 13 (or issue you with a new AST). I believe the section 13 has to give you 1 months clear notice, with the increase taking place on the next rent due day. So depending on what day of the month you pay the rent, you will have at least a month, maybe two before any new rent kicks in after service of a section 13.

Not sure where the 9 or 12 months as come from, a landlord can increase the rent once a year with a section 13, it doesnt have to be on an annual anniversary of the original AST, just no more than once in any 12 month period.

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Thats correct. In order to increase your rent, the LL will have to serve you a section 13 (or issue you with a new AST). I believe the section 13 has to give you 1 months clear notice, with the increase taking place on the next rent due day. So depending on what day of the month you pay the rent, you will have at least a month, maybe two before any new rent kicks in after service of a section 13.

Not sure where the 9 or 12 months as come from, a landlord can increase the rent once a year with a section 13, it doesnt have to be on an annual anniversary of the original AST, just no more than once in any 12 month period.

Planer this is where I am fairly certain I am correct, the 1988 HA does state that unless otherwise agreed the rent can not be increased within first twelve of entering the first period. The only way to accept a new rent rise would be a new AST

As usual SPT has it's downside with a short notice period vs the term of an AST

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Planer this is where I am fairly certain I am correct, the 1988 HA does state that unless otherwise agreed the rent can not be increased within first twelve of entering the first period. The only way to accept a new rent rise would be a new AST

As usual SPT has it's downside with a short notice period vs the term of an AST

It does say that. The first period in this case being Feb 2005 to Feb 2006. The second period (in this case the statutory periodic period) began in Feb 2006. A year had passed since last rent increase, so rent was increased in March 2006. The next period is then March 2006 to March 2007. Rent was increased again March 2007, which began a new period March 2007 to March 2008. If rents increase again now, then (with s.13 served) the next period will likley be August/Septmebr 2008 to August/September 2009, with another rent increase via s.13 available to the landlord after 12 months... so after August/September 2009.

Im not sure if any s.13 notices where served during all the previous rent increases, they should have been but the tenant has acceptedted the rent increases without them. If they want to demand a s.13 nw they obviously can, but this will take effect 1 full month after service at the next rent due date.

You seem to have it in your head that any rent increase can only take place on the exact date of the signing of the original AST, and if that dates missed then tough the landlord has to wait another year. This isnt the case and not what the 1988 act says.

Edited by Planner

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There has been an increase each time, without a section 13. In fact, it has only ever been agreed via e-mail as the landlady lives abroad. As it started at a low base, I've accepted the increase ecah year but know an inflation busting 8% seems extreme. I'll probablt start negotiations and allude to the section 13 notice (which I assume is an official forms as oppose to a quick e-mail?!)

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There has been an increase each time, without a section 13. In fact, it has only ever been agreed via e-mail as the landlady lives abroad. As it started at a low base, I've accepted the increase ecah year but know an inflation busting 8% seems extreme. I'll probablt start negotiations and allude to the section 13 notice (which I assume is an official forms as oppose to a quick e-mail?!)

Excuse my butting into a discussion about contracts but is it possible to find similar properties being rented in the area that will show that the rent is now uncompetitive in the marketplace?

Just a thought

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It does say that. The first period in this case being Feb 2005 to Feb 2006. The second period (in this case the statutory periodic period) began in Feb 2006. A year had passed since last rent increase, so rent was increased in March 2006. The next period is then March 2006 to March 2007. Rent was increased again March 2007, which began a new period March 2007 to March 2008. If rents increase again now, then (with s.13 served) the next period will likley be August/Septmebr 2008 to August/September 2009, with another rent increase via s.13 available to the landlord after 12 months... so after August/September 2009.

Im not sure if any s.13 notices where served during all the previous rent increases, they should have been but the tenant has acceptedted the rent increases without them. If they want to demand a s.13 nw they obviously can, but this will take effect 1 full month after service at the next rent due date.

You seem to have it in your head that any rent increase can only take place on the exact date of the signing of the original AST, and if that dates missed then tough the landlord has to wait another year. This isnt the case and not what the 1988 act says.

Planner looks like he has been signing new AST's each year but not this year, this year the contract has been allowed to slip in to SPT with the first period of that SPT being April. With no rent increase clause in the AST and the contract now in periods as far as I have interpritted S13 (it is also stated in my own contract) the LL can not increase the rent for another 364 days from the date the contract enter a SPT unless they sign a new AST or agree otherwise... either way I am sure the LL can not impose a rent rise until April next year...

The LL could of course give 2 months notice and ask the tenant to leave if they do not agree to a new AST but they again have costs and risks of finding a new tenant.

The whole of is S13 1988 HA is quoted above, see what you think...?

Edited by Matt Henson

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Planner looks like he has been signing new AST's each year but not this year, this year the contract has been allowed to slip in to SPT with the first period of that SPT being April. With no rent increase clause in the AST and the contract now in periods as far as I have interpritted S13 (it is also stated in my own contract) the LL can not increase the rent for another 364 days from the date the contract enter a SPT unless they sign a new AST or agree otherwise... either way I am sure the LL can not impose a rent rise until April next year...

The LL could of course give 2 months notice and ask the tenant to leave if they do not agree to a new AST but they again have costs and risks of finding a new tenant.

The whole of is S13 1988 HA is quoted above, see what you think...?

Thanks all - and, yes Bankside, have just e-mailed her with evidence of lower local rents (and average rents),highlighting rising utilities costs and the fact the flat is completely unfurnished - i.e no carpets, no curtains etc.

I'll save the section 13, SPT issues is she proves stubborn...

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Planner looks like he has been signing new AST's each year but not this year, this year the contract has been allowed to slip in to SPT with the first period of that SPT being April. With no rent increase clause in the AST and the contract now in periods as far as I have interpritted S13 (it is also stated in my own contract) the LL can not increase the rent for another 364 days from the date the contract enter a SPT unless they sign a new AST or agree otherwise... either way I am sure the LL can not impose a rent rise until April next year...

The LL could of course give 2 months notice and ask the tenant to leave if they do not agree to a new AST but they again have costs and risks of finding a new tenant.

The whole of is S13 1988 HA is quoted above, see what you think...?

Why dont you point out which particular part of the 1988 housing act says that if the AST becomes periodic (and the rent hasnt been increased in the previous 12 months, then the landlord most wait a further 12 months (so in effect 2 years at the same rent) in order to increase it using section 13.

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