My Rejected Offers

[Imp]

I am currently looking to buy a home, knowing full well we will be stuck in it for 10 years due to negative equity, and have accepted this.

So far, I have put in three offers.

35% off a piece of land with planning permission - rejected

20% off a house which was being marketted at ceiling price for the street, but needed rewiring, new plumbing, new central heating, new roof. This house is currently standing empty and has a hole in the roof - offer rejected

12% off a house which is on at the ceiling price for the street. We offered the price they were being sold for in Spring 2007 - rejected (even though it has been on the market so long it has no HIP and has SStC several times)

We are first time buyers with mortgage approved.

What is wrong with these vendors? I guess they don't really need to move that much.

[hostman]

You need to find a property which was last bought, say, before 2003. You'll then see sellers more willing to take a "hit", because the hit will likely be paper, rather than cold hard cash they themselves invested when they bought the property.

If you're truly interested in the properties, in six months time you may receive a call from the EA when they still haven't sold.

[AteMoose]

My rules when putting in offers when I bought in Nov 06 were

The property needs to have been on the market for a while

the property was last sold/bought in 2000/2001 or before, preferably no Land Registry records

The property is now empty with no furniture to entice buyers, pref empty been for a couple of months

Its a medium sized desirable house (i.e. no BTL competitors, out of reach of normal FTBers)

The house needs to be in an affluent/good area with prices preferably peaking in 03/04, little sales since preferably at a lower price

The house is in a great condition, however with an obvious flaw that is quick and VERY cheap to fix to use as a bargaining chip

No major problems, or work that needs to be done

The offer is the same as the 2002 price

Edited July 14, 2008 by moosetea

[Flopsy]

Hi Imp,

What were the stories behind those sales?

We are also trying to sort out the "timewasters" from the real sellers. It's been too hard and we are happy to rent for a year or so longer.

The only ones that have been amenable to negotiating recently were a repo (and on the market at a reduced price) and a divorcing couple.

Even when the properties were shown with no furniture, we discovered that the owners were happy to rent them out instead of taking reaonable offers.

I guess it's a question of findering the right seller and the right property as most sellers in the areas I have been looking at are still delusionary and firmly of the opinion that "their" property will defy the current problems. Sounds like yours are as well.

Do you have Propertybee installed? My asumption is that if homes are showing steady reductions, then the owners really go want to sell.

Edited July 14, 2008 by Flopsy

[Jim B.]

I am currently looking to buy a home, knowing full well we will be stuck in it for 10 years due to negative equity, and have accepted this.

So far, I have put in three offers.

35% off a piece of land with planning permission - rejected

20% off a house which was being marketted at ceiling price for the street, but needed rewiring, new plumbing, new central heating, new roof. This house is currently standing empty and has a hole in the roof - offer rejected

12% off a house which is on at the ceiling price for the street. We offered the price they were being sold for in Spring 2007 - rejected (even though it has been on the market so long it has no HIP and has SStC several times)

We are first time buyers with mortgage approved.

What is wrong with these vendors? I guess they don't really need to move that much.

I really think you should wait six months, people are still in denial at the moment, but in six months I expect you will be able to offer 20-30% no problem and get a deal.

[Imp]

We know of one forced seller, a couple splitting up and only being held together by the house they bought together. Started off at around £275k, has fallen to £225k and they are willing to take offers. They bought it for £210k a couple of years ago, and I think they just want to get rid. I love the house, my Mrs Imp doesn't so we won't be buying it.

I haven't a clue how to spot a serious seller. Our plan is to find a house we like and offer what we can afford. We aren't taking much notice of the asking price. If they don't accept, we walk on. I get really frustrated we can't open negoations because the estate agents get in the way.

Imp: "I'm interested in the house"

Agent "How much would you like to offer"

Imp "xxx amount"

Agent "Not accepted"

I'd much rather deal direct with the seller, and see if we can come to some arrangement. See if they can get a low offer accepted on the house they are buying. It seems to me the agents are just getting in the way of selling houses.

[Jim B.]

put the offer in writing and I think by law the EA must pass it on

[Jim B.]

duplicated post

Edited July 14, 2008 by Jim B.

[hostman]

I wonder how common it is to approach the vendor directly, rather than going via EA even though the property is advertised at the EA?

[Goat]

20% off a house which was being marketted at ceiling price for the street, but needed rewiring, new plumbing, new central heating, new roof. This house is currently standing empty and has a hole in the roof - offer rejected

12% off a house which is on at the ceiling price for the street. We offered the price they were being sold for in Spring 2007 - rejected (even though it has been on the market so long it has no HIP and has SStC several times)

Therein lies the problem; anybody marketing at the ceiling price is clearly out of touch with the market and is not going to entertain a reasonable offer.

[pablopatito]

It seems to me the agents are just getting in the way of selling houses.

I find that hard to believe. Agents need to sell. I'd have thought an immediate rejection from an agent is more because the vendor has told that agent that he won't accept anything below £x and your offer falls considerably below that. Approaching the vendor directly just screams "I'm so keen on your house I'm prepared to go to all this effort to buy it", and that isn't the best way to start negotiations. In a buyers market, an estate agent is your friend - he'll weed out the timewasting sellers for you, and might give you a nudge when he suspects a forced seller - possibly allowing you to make an offer lower than you otherwise would.

[VeryMeanReversion]

35% off a piece of land with planning permission - rejected

I've been offering ~60% off and feeling guilty that it's far too generous.

Asking was £350/£400K for two ~0.25 acre plots, offered £150K. Rejected but no offence taken on either side. Land been for sale for over a year now.

Funny thing is that a couple of months later (today), two plots have come up around £250K (~0.25 acre). Similar quality sites as above.

So thats 33% off in two months. Looks like both new vendors have been advised to keep within the 1% stamp duty limit.

VMR.

[Mr Yogi]

I wonder how common it is to approach the vendor directly, rather than going via EA even though the property is advertised at the EA?

I've done this in the past when stonewalled by the agent. Just arrange a viewing conducted by the vendor and get chatting with them about how much you like their house. Mention the figure you have in mind and give them your phone number.

In the current market I bet you get a call within the week.

[Muskoka]

I offered on a house at the weekend. Had been reduced from 340K to 300K. Vendors emigrating in 4 weeks. Been on market since Nov 07 & vendors literally begged me to make an offer so I did. I offered 240 cash! They were insulted apparantly. I would have bit the buyers hand off in todays market for a cash buyer, but hey - there are more where that one came from.

Anyway, I have found the most amazing mind boggling place - been on market forever- cash buyers only. Im viewing it this weekend, but its in the middle of woods - really really green belt. (Plotlands) Only timber framed old 1930's bungalow though, so may have to re-build. Got a friend whose a land valuer calling me tomorrow with his estimate on land price (I hope). I gotta keep my head screwed on with this one cos I've done a drive by already & think it looks stunning!!! (hmm, take the rose coloured glasses off time)

[markyh]

I am currently looking to buy a home, knowing full well we will be stuck in it for 10 years due to negative equity, and have accepted this.

So far, I have put in three offers.

35% off a piece of land with planning permission - rejected

20% off a house which was being marketted at ceiling price for the street, but needed rewiring, new plumbing, new central heating, new roof. This house is currently standing empty and has a hole in the roof - offer rejected

12% off a house which is on at the ceiling price for the street. We offered the price they were being sold for in Spring 2007 - rejected (even though it has been on the market so long it has no HIP and has SStC several times)

We are first time buyers with mortgage approved.

What is wrong with these vendors? I guess they don't really need to move that much.

hi Imp, Mark here yout local HPC mate! My Fairford leys landloard got her 7 day repossession notice from her bank friday, 3 months and 3.5k in arrears. I kick up a stink with the LA on Sat and today and they have finally got hold of the LL who does not know I know the situation. The difference between what the LL gets from the LA and the LL IO mortgage is £300 p/m short!!

Anyway, the LA has now finally got hold of the LL, and guess what, the LL wont sign another AST and wants us to go on periodic as they now want to sell the house and will be instructing the EA asap.

Now I know the LL is in a financial state and houses just wont shift, we plan to give notice as soon as our AST ends at the end of August and will be out by the end of sept. Now the LL has £180k outstanding on the mortgage, 3 bed on fairford leys, outskirts by golf course, but if they dont sell very quickly they will get repossesed!

So when it goes on with the EA, if you want the heads up on the details just shout and I will PM you. You can make a silly offer of say £185k, they will probably reject, but they will under lots of pressure as after we quit in October they will have no tennent and have to pay all the £1000+ p/m mortgage. And I think as the LA knows of the repossesion situation too they might not take it on their books after we leave, and the wont get any other renter without an AST which the LL wont do again.

So you will have them by the balls with all the info so to speak!

Ok matey!

Mark

[Imp]

Cheers Mark.

Only problem is, I have a beautiful classic car. I've checked out the garages on Fairford Leys and the first half of my car fits very nicely in the garages. The rest of the car tends to block the pavement and extends out onto the road. I'm basically looking for a garage with a house attached. The wife is looking for a house with a garage attached. No wonder we have found only three properties which we both agree on in 6 months of looking.

We currently live in Fairford Leys as well, and can't wait to get out having fallen out with the Parish Council over the yellow lines they have painted everywhere.

It would be interesting to see what your house sells for. Give me a heads up when it does go up for sale.

Cheers,

Imp

[nikaso]

I have had some strange conversations with EA's about offers etc. too although willing to believe the Vendors are keeping their heads well and truly in the sand!

First was a nice new build 2 bed flat listed at £140k (most expensive in block)

Looking at property prices offered £99k (why not?) and they sat on it for week, then told they wouldn't entertain any less than £124,950 (only 10.75% drop) so said I would leave it with them.

2 months later they have sold most of them apparently when I went back in, she told me the cheapest (same style) one went for £118k so obviously some people are still buying into the cr*p that they come out with.

Secondly was a late 60s 2 bed flat, big rooms and contemporary inside, the pictures on the EA website showed snow on the ground, now I think the last time we had snow was something like November last year here so I figured it had been on for a little while. Asking price of £135k and told that there is very little movement on that, its still on now and that was 2 months ago. Some people must just be content to let their property sit there in the hope the market will recover or someone is stupid, as my first example shows these people definitely exist!

[Goat]

Markyh/Imp.

I'm close enough to F/L for it to figure on my radar but haven't been keeping a close eye on the market. Apart from the loonies in the OP how is the market holding up? Certainly in my area i've seen a lot of (fairly scummy) stuff sticking on rightmove but no real reductions in asking prices.

[uncle_monty]

Therein lies the problem; anybody marketing at the ceiling price is clearly out of touch with the market and is not going to entertain a reasonable offer.

Yesterday I offered £450k on a flat for sale at £725k. Current asking is £75k above the ceiling for the road

Vendor told me to sod off. However, what is enlightening is that the EA was mostly on my side. Said he agreed with my rationale for the price, although he did state that there was limited scope for a price cut as the vendor was looking to buy a larger, more expensive house (for the children, hence the move). I countered that the vendor should more than benefit from a similar discount on their new purchase - he had no come back.

I said that I was in no rush. I'm well capitalised, cheap-ish rent and the market will only move in my favour as time passes. Conversely, the vendor is de facto a forced seller because of a growing family and the property has remained unsold for 7+ months (falling from an aspirational price of £850k ). The EA said that they will take something in the £600k-range .

I have let him know that I will be here if/when the vendor smells the coffee, although by then £450k may no longer be on the table. In the land of the blind, and all that!!

This crash is real,

Monty

[RogerJJ]

Last summer about July looked at a semi asking for £279K, we offer cash at £265K exchange and complete in 4-6 weeks. Offer rejected, reason vendor only interested in offer over asking price and will not move quickly unless they found a new smaller house, people do have funny feeling about how much there house worth. The house finally sold two months ago when the asking price was £269K, I really doubt it sold for over £250K. I was lucky as my offer was rejected.

If you don't feel quilty about what u offer, you offer too much.

Roger

[markyh]

Markyh/Imp.

I'm close enough to F/L for it to figure on my radar but haven't been keeping a close eye on the market. Apart from the loonies in the OP how is the market holding up? Certainly in my area i've seen a lot of (fairly scummy) stuff sticking on rightmove but no real reductions in asking prices.

F/L as slow as anywhere else around Aylesbury, even more so I think, as the OO believe thay are in a village and not on a new estate, so their asking price and offer aspirations are worse than the older estates!

After stringing Connells along since mid june I offered -30% today on a couple of 4 beds with supposed "motivated" buyers. I proved we had the mortgage approval, and the six figure deposit, and I thought the EA was going to cry or scream when I offered -30% BMV. He just went white and quiet then said, they have both knocked back -10% offers recently so they wont except.

I just laughed and said lets review it again in 3 months shall we.

BTW, a quick tot up on rightmove 1/2 mile around F/L shops shows on 10% off all houses up for sale on F/L ate sitting SSTC. 90% are not even under offer, just sitting their for 2-3 months or more.

I'm loving this.

M

[djnzloop]

I went to look at some stuff in SW6 last weekend - prices only really just starting to come down 10% - 15% ish. Agents, having almost fallen off their chairs at a prospective buyer in their office, were very helpful. I got the usual "just ignore the price sir".

Anyway, saw some nice things & contemplated making some -40% offers (the agents were begging for it). However, I decided against it since I've got a cheap rented place, & everytime I've thought "I'd buy that place if only it was X% less", 6 weeks later it seems to be X% less & then I move on to the next "I'd buy that place if only it was X% less".

I'm in no rush.

[dellboy]

...

I just laughed and said lets review it again in 3 months shall we.

BTW, a quick tot up on rightmove 1/2 mile around F/L shops shows on 10% off all houses up for sale on F/L ate sitting SSTC. 90% are not even under offer, just sitting their for 2-3 months or more.

I'm loving this.

This is a great thread. It's nice to see haggling over prices with the safe knowledge that lunatics without their own money won't just gazump it.

[Rachel]

we had an offer rejected tonight, we offered £172k on a price of £185k(valued by 3 EAs in January!)

the owner said she just can't possibly go down that far, even though she paid £99k in 2002.

argh!

[djnzloop]

we had an offer rejected tonight, we offered £172k on a price of £185k(valued by 3 EAs in January!)

the owner said she just can't possibly go down that far, even though she paid £99k in 2002.

argh!

Just walk away. There will be loads more for sale & they'll all be cheaper too