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Public Sector Job Creation

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How can the Labour party continue with the never ending expansion of the public sector? Surely now the VAT take will shrink as consumers tighten belts. The redundancies of house building staff and many more leaving a reduced PAYE and NI take. Stamp duty take will be down, and will decrease as the value and number of home sales decreases. Is there somewhere that accurately charts / documents the increases in public sector employees since Labour came to power. I am aware that contractors and agency staff are not counted in the official figures (despite the fact that many of them are employed full time in the public sector).

Edited by BeenieSiegleDesertEagle

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How can the Labour party continue with the never ending expansion of the public sector?

They can't.

Their current level of deficit spending is already causing stupid amounts of inflation - if they start laying off millions of state sector employees now, they might just be able to hold off currency collapse. But they probably don't have the balls to do that!

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They can't.

Their current level of deficit spending is already causing stupid amounts of inflation - if they start laying off millions of state sector employees now, they might just be able to hold off currency collapse. But they probably don't have the balls to do that!

Rabbits in the headlights, a bit like the MPC in my opinion.

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How can the Labour party continue with the never ending expansion of the public sector? Surely now the VAT take will shrink as consumers tighten belts. The redundancies of house building staff and many more leaving a reduced PAYE and NI take. Stamp duty take will be down, and will decrease as the value and number of home sales decreases. Is there somewhere that accurately charts / documents the increases in public sector employees since Labour came to power. I am aware that contractors and agency staff are not counted in the official figures (despite the fact that many of them are employed full time in the public sector).

Might surprise you to find out that HMRC and the DWP have been axing thousands of staff over recent years.

The Revenue has lost over 15000 staff since 2004

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/business/Reven...-axe.4176880.jp

The figure is expected to rise to 25,000 by 2011.

BTW the number of civil servants employed administering SDLT (Stamp Duty) is less than 50 for the entire country.

Edited by up2nogood

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Might surprise you to find out that HMRC and the DWP have been axing thousands of staff over recent years.

The Revenue has lost over 15000 staff since 2004

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/business/Reven...-axe.4176880.jp

The figure is expected to rise to 25,000 by 2011.

BTW the number of civil servants employed administering SDLT (Stamp Duty) is less than 50 for the entire country.

I saw an article that stated over a million extra jobs had been created in the public sector since Labour came to power :unsure: I was looking for something to prove / disprove that statement.

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Might surprise you to find out that HMRC and the DWP have been axing thousands of staff over recent years.

The Revenue has lost over 15000 staff since 2004

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/business/Reven...-axe.4176880.jp

The figure is expected to rise to 25,000 by 2011.

BTW the number of civil servants employed administering SDLT (Stamp Duty) is less than 50 for the entire country.

It is mainly computerised. We do all the work and there are penalties for us getting it wrong. They dont need staff.

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Might surprise you to find out that HMRC and the DWP have been axing thousands of staff over recent years.

The Revenue has lost over 15000 staff since 2004

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/business/Reven...-axe.4176880.jp

The figure is expected to rise to 25,000 by 2011.

BTW the number of civil servants employed administering SDLT (Stamp Duty) is less than 50 for the entire country.

Contracting out doesn't really help - and thats all they've been doing. Hospitals, schools, 'privatisation', pfi - all ends up with the same people employed in the same jobs, just with an extra layer of management and another bite out of the taxpayer.

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They can't.

Their current level of deficit spending is already causing stupid amounts of inflation - if they start laying off millions of state sector employees now, they might just be able to hold off currency collapse. But they probably don't have the balls to do that!

Current budget relies on 2.5% growth in the UK to remain on balance, given we are staring at a possible 2.5% contratction, then you looking at a dirty great hole in government spending.

GB's golden sustainable investmet rule should no longer be mentioned! As it was clearly a crock to try an buy yet more votes, well Gordo, explain that to you teachers, firemen, nurses and above all YOUR POLICE FORCE, as they are the only people stopping your head being put on a spike, infact if the mob did turn the police given ther pay rise and performance figures would probably be leading the charge to No.10.

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This country's GDP has been contracting in real terms for a good 7 years now, and what we are now staring at is a certain depression.

GDP is already measured in real terms. Of course, the inflation figure being used might be nonsense, but such is life.

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I saw an article that stated over a million extra jobs had been created in the public sector since Labour came to power :unsure: I was looking for something to prove / disprove that statement.

Incorrect. A million extra positions have been created, not a million extra jobs.

Example - The NHS now employs more managers than nurses.

And guess which group will get it in the neck when downsizing comes.

And which group won't.....

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The public sector is top-heavy. Why do public sector bosses have to spend so much of their time going to conferences and on fact-finding tours overseas?

Why do public sector staff have to attend so many training courses when their average intelligence is probably higher than that of staff in the private sector? Why does the public sector pay so many experts and consultants to tell them either what they want to hear or what they already employ highly paid managers to work out for themselves?

Public sector staff 'on the shop floor' usually work hard and are not particularly well paid. But there's too much scope in the public sector for incompetent, lazy or self-serving managers in some parts of the public sector to swing the lead.

[always edit, never explain]

Edited by blankster

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when their average intelligence is probably higher than that of staff in the private sector?

do you have any kind of external justification for this?

are you comparing to the WHOLE private sector, or just white collar private sector? do you include bin-men, dinner ladies, etc as public or private sector?

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Incorrect. A million extra positions have been created, not a million extra jobs.

Example - The NHS now employs more managers than nurses.

And guess which group will get it in the neck when downsizing comes.

And which group won't.....

When my college had it's funding cut it was mostly teachers that were made redundant. support staff and management got off fairly lightly. So, nevermind teaching, the admin is fine!

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GDP is already measured in real terms.

Nope.

The Gov't might say that nominal GDP growth is, say, 5%

They then used a fudged inflation figure of ~2%, and tell us that real GDP growth is ~3%

When in reality inflation is 20%, and so real GDP is actually contracting by >10%.

Of course, the inflation figure being used might be nonsense, but such is life.

That's exactly my point.

Add to that the fact that GDP is a sh1t way of measuring the health of the economy anyway.

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How can the Labour party continue with the never ending expansion of the public sector? Surely now the VAT take will shrink as consumers tighten belts. The redundancies of house building staff and many more leaving a reduced PAYE and NI take. Stamp duty take will be down, and will decrease as the value and number of home sales decreases. Is there somewhere that accurately charts / documents the increases in public sector employees since Labour came to power. I am aware that contractors and agency staff are not counted in the official figures (despite the fact that many of them are employed full time in the public sector).

I think the core problem with your posting is that you start with an assertion as fact and end pleading for data to support that opinion - if you left out the pleading for supporting evidence you could consider a career in tabloid journalism.

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The state will completely collapse.

Don't worry about it, they'll make some evil backroom deal to get another one going soon enough. It'll start off small and then slowly get bigger and then collapse the economy again. Same old, same old.

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Thank You for your valuable contribution to this thread ;)

Thank you for recognising its value.

Whenever someone says to me look at what political party x has done since coming to power e.g. creating a million extra public-sector jobs I instinctively want to know what the bigger picture is - what was the line of the graph like before the period I'm being asked to focus on, what are the jobs these people are doing, is it the case that they've created a million extra jobs/are those jobs of any value/or is it that the person writing the story has a particular axe to grind?

Data on public sector jobs can be obtained, I suspect, from the ONS website - no doubt if the data doesn't support the popular argument it will be dismissed. Myths are powerful (house prices only ever rise in value / renting is dead money.)

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Nope.

The Gov't might say that nominal GDP growth is, say, 5%

They then used a fudged inflation figure of ~2%, and tell us that real GDP growth is ~3%

When in reality inflation is 20%, and so real GDP is actually contracting by >10%.

That's exactly my point.

Add to that the fact that GDP is a sh1t way of measuring the health of the economy anyway.

The other thing to question with GDP growth is: how much of it is down to MEWing (I've seen figures in the region of 3% on this website)... a debt rather than sweat approach to boosting the economy. A credit card economy.

The government appears to adopt a similar never-never approach (PFI springing to mind).

The headline figure of GDP growth is in fact an illusion. Like everything else... pooff! Where did I go. Am I real or just a figment of my imagination? :rolleyes:

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When they say they have created extra jobs they forget to say they are jobs paid by our taxes so the more of them there are the more tax must be paid. We need to contract the civil service and councils dramatically.

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The state will completely collapse.

My pet subject, an unaffordable public sector.

So much private sector unemployment that the system disappears up it's own orifice.

Total chaos coming your way.

How will (for example) Unison members cope with yearly wage reductions, Japan style?

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Thank you for recognising its value.

Whenever someone says to me look at what political party x has done since coming to power e.g. creating a million extra public-sector jobs I instinctively want to know what the bigger picture is - what was the line of the graph like before the period I'm being asked to focus on, what are the jobs these people are doing, is it the case that they've created a million extra jobs/are those jobs of any value/or is it that the person writing the story has a particular axe to grind?

Data on public sector jobs can be obtained, I suspect, from the ONS website - no doubt if the data doesn't support the popular argument it will be dismissed. Myths are powerful (house prices only ever rise in value / renting is dead money.)

This is what I wanted to do. To compare between the previous conservative administration and labour. :P

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My pet subject, an unaffordable public sector.

So much private sector unemployment that the system disappears up it's own orifice.

Total chaos coming your way.

How will (for example) Unison members cope with yearly wage reductions, Japan style?

They won't.

With no currency and no way to inflate once we lose this fiat monster there is simply no way to have the sort of state everyone takes for granted. This won't even be like an argentina or russian style collapse - there are no outside states willing to prop up or help create a replacement here. A lot of people don't know this but when the russkies went under, the west spent a fortune making sure there was a viable state - the risk of a stateless society operating and (gulp) prospering somewhere in the world was too much for them to tolerate.

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  • 395 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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