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ajay

How Long Before Builders Have Jobs Again

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Most of us accept that a large number of the big building companies will either go into liquidation or lose all shareholder value.

Another question is how long before builders are back into work, builders bricklayers chippies sparkies.

Are they going to have to take a paycut, and what kind of future can they hope for.

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Most of us accept that a large number of the big building companies will either go into liquidation or lose all shareholder value.

Another question is how long before builders are back into work, builders bricklayers chippies sparkies.

Are they going to have to take a paycut, and what kind of future can they hope for.

Well being that i am in the trade myself, i would say not for very long as there is a serious skills shortage in this country

Edited by Jacksaw

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Well being that i am in the trade myself, i would say not for very long as there is a serious skills shortage in this country

which did you vote for ?

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None, as the couple of weeks option is not there :rolleyes:

No recession is the nearest one to that.

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House builders, could be a long time. I think construction firms who do not deal with residential property will generally be ok imho. There is still a shortage of skilled construction workers in the UK. Hopefully the recession will sort the wheat from the chaff.

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House builders, could be a long time. I think construction firms who do not deal with residential property will generally be ok imho. There is still a shortage of skilled construction workers in the UK. Hopefully the recession will sort the wheat from the chaff.

I am thinking more of the staff they employ rather than the companies.

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In the interest of fairness i voted 5 Years.

Just to let people know where i am coming from.

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I am thinking more of the staff they employ rather than the companies.

Staff employed by housebuilders = toast time for the majority. The more skilled staff could perhaps get by on a reduced wage for another construction company. Your poll does not account for the difference between housebuilders and other types of construction.

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If the big housebuilders continue to crumble, there'll be lots of land sold off cheap. That will be the start of new building companies with lower costs ready to take advantage of the upturn when it eventually comes.

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None of the building companies I deal with have land banks or high levels of borrowing. Housebuilders on the other hand :lol::lol::lol:

Sorry, i had to lump them together, but will not the building companies without landbanks lay off workers, or are they immune.

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Well being that i am in the trade myself, i would say not for very long as there is a serious skills shortage in this country

I agree but I keep hearing from people about how difficult it is to actually do a course to become a qualified plumber. Why?

Edited by 1929crash

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No recession is the nearest one to that.

Hey, I am not saying there will not be a recession, and yep tradesman will be laid off new builds & refurbishments.

However, whom are these tradesmen being laid off? I reckon it is the Polish plumber, chippie, sparks and thousands like him all going back home.

So who does that leave? the good old British tradesman, and how many of them do we have? I admit you might be spoilt for choice, when it comes to a plumber,

However, try getting a decent plasterer or a chippie or roofer, or even a joiner like myself. We stopped doing proper apprenticeshps years ago. Look in the paper you can go and do a six weeks course & hey presto your a tradesman. Alternatively, there is NVQ what we call in the trade not very qualified.

In a recession, roofs are still going to leak; homes are still going to get flooded. Pipes are gonna burst & wood still rots, just to name a few

Maybe it is just the part of the country iam in, but most of the people I call tradesman are still working.

Cheers

Simon

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Sorry, i had to lump them together, but will not the building companies without landbanks lay off workers, or are they immune.

Generally speaking they are not in the position of having borrowed heavily to purchase vastly over valued plots of land, and now seeing those oh so expensive land banks values falling. The vast majority have not gorged as gluttonously as housebuilders over the past decade and have run a far tighter ship. The companies are generally run by "older bears" who have steered the companies through the 70's 80's and 90's. I am not saying they are immune to the recession, but I feel they are better placed than the housebuilders to survive the recession, only time will tell. Housebuilders make (or should that read made) between 25 - 33% profit on new builds. The fact that now barely 1 year in to the "credit crunch" many face going to the wall shows how greedy and poorly run they are. The market for new build homes is toast. The general construction market is slow but plodding along round here. We have a lot of work on currently where clients have the funding in place and the jobs are going to take between 1 - 10 years to complete. There is still demand for construction albeit reduced and from recent experience banks are still willing to finance the right projects(the sound of stable door bolts being hastily thrown shut and thundering hooves in the distance). So in a roundabout way sensibility is back in fashion, not because people have seen the light. But because banks are no longer willing to throw money willy nilly at any idiot who steps over the threshold.

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Now at least we will be able to get some cheap plumbers and builders when we need them. Fed up of getting charged exorbitant rates by glorified manual workers who earn more than I do. These people belong at the bottom of the employment food chain. It's going to be a long hard tumble.

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Now at least we will be able to get some cheap plumbers and builders when we need them. Fed up of getting charged exorbitant rates by glorified manual workers who earn more than I do. These people belong at the bottom of the employment food chain. It's going to be a long hard tumble.

Interesting perspective. Surely it's all about supply and demand here- your skills are clearly not scarce enough, or demand for them not high enough, to command the same rates as 'glorified manual workers'. Food chains are predatory in nature- they are not meritocratic

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Now at least we will be able to get some cheap plumbers and builders when we need them. Fed up of getting charged exorbitant rates by glorified manual workers who earn more than I do. These people belong at the bottom of the employment food chain. It's going to be a long hard tumble.

Stupid tw@t!

I am a skilled 'manual worker' and probably earn more than an average solicitor or accountant.

Why? Because I provide a service that people actually want and are prepared to pay more for.

Your attitude is typical of the British snobbery towards proper jobs that has done much to diminish this country.

My labours will still be in demand long after you are on the dole!

Edited by Mr Yogi

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Stupid tw@t!

I am a skilled 'manual worker' and probably earn more than an average solicitor or accountant.

Why? Because I provide a service that people actually want and are prepared to pay more for.

Your attitude is typical of the British snobbery towards proper jobs that has done much to diminish this country.

My labours will still be in demand long after you are on the dole!

While I respect your opinion, this person is hardly a "tw@t" for having this point of view. I share it to a point, as I have expressed on anothre thread. During the high-times, I knew carpenters who would happily charge OAPs £50 to hang a door, etc., which is outrageous over-charging. You could argue that the market allowed these charges and I would agree with you to a point, but the truth of the matter is carpenters, etc., are no different to anyone else - so they will make hay while the sun shines and fair enough , I guess. However, they also have to suck up the bad times as well, without complaint, and I would make the case that a lot of these guys are going to find times tough for the next five years as people pull in their spending and home improvements, and of course as major builders go under. I know of a couple of tradies who are simply moving to Australia in a bid to continue rolling it in, but many who have gone out there already report that they can't get away with charging what they charged here. I wonder if many British tradies never realised just how lucky they were being to charge people £100 an hour, etc.

Those days are gone for at least a generation and will probably never return in real terms.

Edited by Thucydides

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While I respect your opinion, this person is hardly a "tw@t" for having this point of view. I share it to a point, as I have expressed on anothre thread. During the high-times, I knew carpenters who would happily charge OAPs £50 to hang a door, etc., which is outrageous over-charging. You could argue that the market allowed these charges and I would agree with you to a point, but the truth of the matter is carpenters, etc., are no different to anyone else - so they will make hay while the sun shines and fair enough , I guess. However, they also have to suck up the bad times as well, without complaint, and I would make the case that a lot of these guys are going to find times tough for the next five years as people pull in their spending and home improvements, and of course as major builders go under. I know of a couple of tradies who are simply moving to Australia in a bid to continue rolling it in, but many who have gone out there already report that they can't get away with charging what they charged here. I wonder if many British tradies never realised just how lucky they were being to charge people £100 an hour, etc.

Those days are gone for at least a generation and will probably never return in real terms.

When you say a door, what type of door are you talking about? Because 50 pounds can be a very reasonable price to hang a door. What do you base your rates on, for the correct price to hang a door?

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While I respect your opinion, this person is hardly a "tw@t" for having this point of view. I share it to a point, as I have expressed on anothre thread. During the high-times, I knew carpenters who would happily charge OAPs £50 to hang a door, etc., which is outrageous over-charging. You could argue that the market allowed these charges and I would agree with you to a point, but the truth of the matter is carpenters, etc., are no different to anyone else - so they will make hay while the sun shines and fair enough , I guess. However, they also have to suck up the bad times as well, without complaint, and I would make the case that a lot of these guys are going to find times tough for the next five years as people pull in their spending and home improvements, and of course as major builders go under. I know of a couple of tradies who are simply moving to Australia in a bid to continue rolling it in, but many who have gone out there already report that they can't get away with charging what they charged here. I wonder if many British tradies never realised just how lucky they were being to charge people £100 an hour, etc.

Those days are gone for at least a generation and will probably never return in real terms.

Another one!

£50 to hang a door is not 'outrageous over-charging'. Done properly it will take a couple of hours. Add in travelling time and a trip to buy the hardware and you're looking at £20 an hour. About right, IMHO.

The fact is that the going rate for good tradesmen is between £150 and £200 per day. That works out at between about £35k and £50k a year.

Its not a bad living but it's hardly going to make anyone a millionnaire is it?

My point is that people who complain that this is more than a 'professional' earns are tw@ts.

A plumber is just as much a 'professional' as a solicitor is. Why should he be expected to earn less?

PS - just read Jacksaw's post. He's quite right.

For a hardwood front door I would charge £200 because it's going to take all day. If you think that's expensive try doing it yourself. It will take you a weekend and still look crap!

Edited by Mr Yogi

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Another one!

£50 to hang a door is not 'outrageous over-charging'. Done properly it will take a couple of hours. Add in travelling time and a trip to buy the hardware and you're looking at £20 an hour. About right, IMHO.

The fact is that the going rate for good tradesmen is between £150 and £200 per day. That works out at between about £35k and £50k a year.

Its not a bad living but it's hardly going to make anyone a millionnaire is it?

My point is that people who complain that this is more than a 'professional' earns are tw@ts.

A plumber is just as much a 'professional' as a solicitor is. Why should he be expected to earn less?

I don't disagree that these people are professionals, and arguably much more useful to society, although a plumber doesn't take 5 - 7 years to train like some white-collar jobs. Also, I think your position is indicative of the good times and out of sink with the imminent financial tsunami, and what I mean by that is you claiming that £200 a day is reasonable. I feel people have a big shock coming to them if they feel this is reasonable. Not only is is totally unreasonable (for lawyers as well as carpenters) but it is also yesterday's wages. Someone who trakns for a year to be a carpenter is not worth £20 an hour, when nurses who train for five years can't earn this. These people have been paid this money because of two factors: 1) a massive boom induced by lax consumer credit rules and 1920s-style decadence, and 2) a massive shortage of people skilled in these occupations.

The difficulty is that first, the shortage was addressed when news of plumbers earning more than QCs leaked and thousands started re-training, and second, we are entering the worst crash since 1929 and while plumbers and electricians will still find work here and there, it is doubtful people will have an "carpentry emergencies", so I feel for carpenters the most, and several in my family are carpenters so I am worried for them.

In edit - a family member hung a hardwood front door for me for £0, and it took him less than a morning. It looks great and is going strong for over half a decade.

Edited by Thucydides

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  • 396 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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