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Kurt Barlow

Germany To Build Another 30 Wind Farms

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I think the Danes are the market leaders in Europe.

The Danes own vestas. Enercon is a major german manufacturer. Siemens (German) manufacture loads of turbines

Ironic that none of our comapnies got in on this - Rolls Royce, Airbus, BAE etc

Oh no - the future is in aircraft :blink:

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Transport minister Tom Harris was on GMTV this morning and he said there was no reason to think the price of oil would stay at current levels. He was also lukewarm about electrification and just lacked any vision of the future. With NuLabour zombies like this, endlessly repeating mantras and stock phrases, it is no wonder we are the worst positioned economy in Europe to face the present crisis.

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Transport minister Tom Harris was on GMTV this morning and he said there was no reason to think the price of oil would stay at current levels. He was also lukewarm about electrification and just lacked any vision of the future. With NuLabour zombies like this, endlessly repeating mantras and stock phrases, it is no wonder we are the worst positioned economy in Europe to face the present crisis.

Yep. Whatever people think about different merits whether its wind, biomass, solar, or nuclear - our continental neighbours are doing something.

France nuclear - and major schemes to replace oil heating with heat pumps, electrify railways

Sweden - biomass CHP

Germany - wind, solar, and biomass

Denmark - wind - and interconnectors to access scandinavian hydro

Us - - who knows??? :ph34r:

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Yep. Whatever people think about different merits whether its wind, biomass, solar, or nuclear - our continental neighbours are doing something.

France nuclear - and major schemes to replace oil heating with heat pumps, electrify railways

Sweden - biomass CHP

Germany - wind, solar, and biomass

Denmark - wind - and interconnectors to access scandinavian hydro

Us - - who knows??? :ph34r:

Now, if somebody could generate energy out of apathy . . .

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Low flux (ie low energy per unit volume) sources such as wind, wave, solar have massive start up costs and need continual subsidies.

Nuclear and reopening the coal mines are the obvious answers.

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Low flux (ie low energy per unit volume) sources such as wind, wave, solar have massive start up costs and need continual subsidies.

Nuclear and reopening the coal mines are the obvious answers.

I don't dispute the need to revitalise our mines and get the nuclear programme back on track - but these have pretty massive start up costs themselves before any energy is produced. At least with renewables they are modular.

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I don't dispute the need to revitalise our mines and get the nuclear programme back on track - but these have pretty massive start up costs themselves before any energy is produced. At least with renewables they are modular.

The point is the start up cost per unit energy obtained, is much much larger in low flux sources

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Our energy industry was long ago sold to German and French profiteers -why would they have any interest in chnaging the current status quo or seeking cheaper alternatives ...

The British have all the short-termism of South Sea Islanders flogging their land for a headful of beads ...

Up until 25 years ago we lead in Nuclear Power and had all the worlds best scientists - now all we can do is tout round French and German manufactures who have no interest in building plants in the UK -of course the Government selling off Westinghouse for £200m in 2003 didn`t help matters ( current value the best part of £3 billion ) ...

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The point is the start up cost per unit energy obtained, is much much larger in low flux sources

Agreed - but then running costs are but a fraction of that for coal fired, gas, and oil. From what I gather wind is slightly more expensive than coal, and cheaper than gas. Of course some of the costs - mainly pollution are externalised in the case of fossil fuelled plant.

I beleive nuclear has a broadly similar profile as wind in terms of overall lifetime costs.

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I don't dispute the need to revitalise our mines and get the nuclear programme back on track - but these have pretty massive start up costs themselves before any energy is produced. At least with renewables they are modular.

But there ain't no coal left Kurt. I'm sure you recognise a Hubbert curve when you see one.

coal.gif

post-9596-1215385607_thumb.png

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But there ain't no coal left Kurt. I'm sure you recognise a Hubbert curve when you see one.

Quite - when I said revitalise I should of added - digging out the final tailings left over from before

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Quite - when I said revitalise I should of added - digging out the final tailings left over from before

Why do I get a picture of a horde of scuffy ragamuffins in bare feet wandering over a sulphurous, smoking wasteland, gleaning the odd nugget of coal and stuffing it in their dirty greatcoats?

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Why do I get a picture of a horde of scuffy ragamuffins in bare feet wandering over a sulphurous, smoking wasteland, gleaning the odd nugget of coal and stuffing it in their dirty greatcoats?

I do - its the UK in 2025 as we descend from being a developed nation into one of scavenging detritovores :ph34r:

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Sooner we accept nulcear and forget wind, or have it as a trinket, the better.

Indeed, maybe we can pay Toshiba to make the new reactors. Since we sold Westinghouse, the power station construction arm of (state owned) BNFL who built half the reactors in operation worldwide, to them a few years ago we know they have the expertise.

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Transport minister Tom Harris was on GMTV this morning and he said there was no reason to think the price of oil would stay at current levels.

He's right of course :ph34r:

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Guest Steve Cook
But there ain't no coal left Kurt. I'm sure you recognise a Hubbert curve when you see one.

yes

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Guest Steve Cook

There are no long term solutions to our energy crisis. There is no way of satisfying our energy needs without living a deeply subsistence existence. However, there is the rub. If we are reduced to that level of existence, how the hell are we going to maintain the kind of complex infrastructure necessary to provide us with a national grid of power? The anwer is we are not. Not in the long run. Not with our current population levels.

With lower population levels. Yes, indeed, there are a myriad of energy supply solutions. All of them renewable.

My main fear is that the horror and savagery that is to be unleashed (indeed, it has already begun) in the inevitable die-off that must come, will mean that the ruins of our civilsation will be too weak and disorganised to rebuild.

I find it extremely difficult to forcast a future for our civilisation that is anything other than bleak.

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There are no long term solutions to our energy crisis. There is no way of satisfying our energy needs without living a deeply subsistence existence. However, there is the rub. If we are reduced to that level of existence, how the hell are we going to maintain the kind of complex infrastructure necessary to provide us with a national grid of power? The anwer is we are not. Not in the long run. Not with our current population levels.

With lower population levels. Yes, indeed, there are a myriad of energy supply solutions. All of them renewable.

My main fear is that the horror and savagery that is to be unleashed (indeed, it has already begun, re: Iraq/Iran) in the inevitable die-off that must come, will mean that the ruins of our civilsation will be too weak and disorganised to rebuild.

I find it extremely difficult to forcast a future for our civilisation that is anything other than bleak.

We've been told that the American way of life is not negotiable. Neither is it sustainable. Interesting when rocks meet immovable objects, sparks fly. I share your pessimism.

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It's not all doom and gloom and there are cost effective solutions bubbling to the top.

I found this link from a discussion with the Nobel Laureate about the energy crisis. It's an interesting watch all the way through, but from 55mins there is some interesting discussion about PV solar being the solution. In particular, they seemed to suggest the distributed solar (on roofs, municipal plants etc) could be a very good solution. These guys are all very educated (professors etc), so it's interesting to hear this. With solar continuing to get cheaper, I believe more and more strongly that this will be a very workable and effective solution in the near future.

http://nobellaureate.feedroom.com/index.js...p;skin=showcase

Also, earlier on (30-40 min ish maybe?) there was a comparison with biofuels and there compared efficiencies. It seems biomass returns well under 1% efficiency, compared to 15%+ for PV solar. It was also stated that in Germany (ie. more northern longitude) you can still generate 50% as much power from PV solar as you can from deserts (maximum solar efficiency).

It's good to see the focus on the energy crisis and the CO2 AGW theories being questioned too.

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It's not all doom and gloom and there are cost effective solutions bubbling to the top.

I found this link from a discussion with the Nobel Laureate about the energy crisis. It's an interesting watch all the way through, but from 55mins there is some interesting discussion about PV solar being the solution. In particular, they seemed to suggest the distributed solar (on roofs, municipal plants etc) could be a very good solution. These guys are all very educated (professors etc), so it's interesting to hear this. With solar continuing to get cheaper, I believe more and more strongly that this will be a very workable and effective solution in the near future.

http://nobellaureate.feedroom.com/index.js...p;skin=showcase

Also, earlier on (30-40 min ish maybe?) there was a comparison with biofuels and there compared efficiencies. It seems biomass returns well under 1% efficiency, compared to 15%+ for PV solar. It was also stated that in Germany (ie. more northern longitude) you can still generate 50% as much power from PV solar as you can from deserts (maximum solar efficiency).

It's good to see the focus on the energy crisis and the CO2 AGW theories being questioned too.

Good to have a little optimism on this topic. However, if we don't get a move on we may never get around to sorting out the energy problem because manufacturing solar photaics and wind turbines etc needs fossil fuels.

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  • 399 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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