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The Future For Car Motive Technology


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Guest Steve Cook

As the oil price has risen more and more threads seem to reference it either in terms of the impact on our economy, our future way of life, house prices, inflation and so on.

I thought it may be interesting to have a thread where articles, ideas, thoughts etc, concerning the future development of the car/engine and alternatives to the petrol/diesel engine, can be discussed.

I'll start with a few links that have been posted recently. I know there are some very knowlegeable people on this site in the energy area so hopefully they will join in. I am not one of them. I am simply interested in how alternative energy is/will be deployed in the auto industry in the future.

I'm happy to say at the outset that as far as the UK, and probably many areas of Europe, and perhaps even urban areas in China, the Far East and South America are concerned I believe there is a future for alternative energy driven motorcars, and we appear to be at an exciting time on the cusp of these new developments being deployed to the market. Even in the oil obsessed US I can see a future for such technology. Perhaps even more reason for them to develop and adopt it.

Please add your own examples and thoughts as you come across them.......

Mercedes developments....

http://www.thesun.co...icle1314732.ece

Electric bikes, scooters, cars in California

http://www.zapworld.com/

Danish electric vehicle project

http://www.greenbang...ars-in-denmark/

Israeli electric vehicle project

http://www.time.com/...world/article/0,8...1705518,00.html

Shai Agassi's EV battery car project

http://www.projectbetterplace.com/

This video is well worth having a look at I think

http://shaiagassi.ty...etter-stor.html

What a lot of folks don't realise is that green technology, in particular, electric cars, are massively reliant on rare earths.Rare earths which, by virtue of their rarity, require sifting from huge amount of non-rare earth. All of this requires huge amounts of energy.

And it gets worse the more it is scaled up because of the rather obvious fact that as it gets scaled up, those rare earths get even rarer.

Personal electric transportation vehicles won't save us

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Guest absolutezero

What a lot of folks don't realise is that green technology, in particular, electric cars, are massively reliant on rare earths.Rare earths which, by virtue of their rarity, require sifting from huge amount of non-rare earth. All of this requires huge amounts of energy.

And it gets worse the more it is scaled up because of the rather obvious fact that as it gets scaled up, those rare earths get even rarer.

Personal electric transportation vehicles won't save us

Steve is (once again) 100% correct, guaranteed.

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What a lot of folks don't realise is that green technology, in particular, electric cars, are massively reliant on rare earths.Rare earths which, by virtue of their rarity, require sifting from huge amount of non-rare earth. All of this requires huge amounts of energy.

And it gets worse the more it is scaled up because of the rather obvious fact that as it gets scaled up, those rare earths get even rarer.

Personal electric transportation vehicles won't save us

Yes, we're all going to die. I know that.

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Guest Steve Cook

Yes, we're all going to die. I know that.

A large portion of us are Red. Though not all, of course. I'd say at least two thirds of the human population will not be present 50 years from now.

What is certain to die, though, is our highly energy dependant, highly complex civilisation. In that regard, the future is very likely to be some kind of re-run of the past. I base this assertion on the assumption that cultural/economic systems tend to evolve as the optimum response to environmental constraints. Given that previous human systems of organisation were probably optimum responses to the constraints of the time, I see no reason to suppose that there is any plausible alternative to a re-run of them.

There are no technological solutions to our unsustainable numbers and our unsustainable lifestyles Red. We have significantly overshot our planet's carrying capacity on the back of a one-time draw-down of the stored solar energy of millennia. The collapse of this global industrial civilisation is as inevitable as night following day.

Indeed, it's looking ever more likely that we will get to see the major beginnings of that collapse in our lifetimes.

Edited by Steve Cook
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A large portion of us are Red. Though not all, of course. I'd say at least two thirds of the human population will not be present 50 years from now.

What is certain to die, though, is our highly energy dependant, highly complex civilisation. In that regard, the future is very likely to be some kind of re-run of the past. I base this assertion on the assumption that cultural/economic systems tend to evolve as the optimum response to environmental constraints. Given that previous human systems of organisation were probably optimum responses to the constraints of the time, I see no reason to suppose that there is any plausible alternative to a re-run of them.

There are no technological solutions to our unsustainable numbers and our unsustainable lifestyles Red. We have significantly overshot our planet's carrying capacity on the back of a one-time draw-down of the stored solar energy of millennia. The collapse of this global industrial civilisation is as inevitable as night following day.

Indeed, it's looking ever more likely that we will get to see the major beginnings of that collapse in our lifetimes.

That you can see currently.

My point was semi-serious too. i.e. We are all going to die. What happens in 100 years is irrelevant from that perspective. I think the average glow ball lifespan is around 72 years (but that could be way off - I've forgotten the extact number).

So in the normal cycle of life if you knew the current average age you'd know when on average we'll all be dead. Future population may indeed adjust, slowly or rapidly and end up much smaller. Why is that a problem at all?

In the meantime the world doesn't just stop. It evolves, whether that's to alternative/better management of resources or the stone age again. I'll let future generations worry about themselves, I can only live in the here and now. Right now oil is falling in price, comes out of the gulf of Mexico whether you want it to or not, cars are becoming significantly more efficient and new tech is coming to market, suprisingly rapidly in fact.

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I don't get the idea that heavy batteries are such a drawback. It takes energy to accelerate a mass but once it motion the only problem is air friction. The energy taken to accelerate the mass is not lost if one uses magnetic breaking. There is not even a need to plug your car into the grid. Buy a solar panel and lay it in your garden.

The problem with all these green energies is that they are likely to become obsolete once we get fusion working giving us infinite energy.

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