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Will The Fiat Monetary System Collapse?


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What with our ever increasing debt levels and perhaps a less prosperous future will the fiat monetary system survive as we know it? Do all fiat systems eventually fail?

Discuss.

By it's nature it must eventually disappear up its own chuff, as for when or how (big mess or evolution) who knows :lol:

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What with our ever increasing debt levels and perhaps a less prosperous future will the fiat monetary system survive as we know it? Do all fiat systems eventually fail?

Discuss.

So far every single fiat experiment in history has failed, some of them spectacularly, some of them with a whimper. All kinds of people have tried them, from Genghis Khan to Churchill and they have always been just too vulnerable to greed and eventual rejection.

The big advantage of fiat is that you can always have more of it., Limitations on trade are avoided, problems of payment are reduced and so on.

The big disadvantage of fiat is that you can always have more of it. Limitations on the issuer of the fiat are removed, they never have to pay their way for anything and they have no feedback mechanism to tell them when they have gone too far and they can also literally do whatever they want and make others pay for it.

Our particular experiment with fiat is doomed quite apart from the current malaise, merely because of widespread printing and computing technology. Even without ridiculous overspending, exponential growth and so on, eventually pretty much anyone will be able to print passable pound notes or dollars on their home PC and that would be enough to send fiat into history and probebly forever.

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Will The Fiat Monetary System Collapse

Not ever in this millenium, either tomorrow, the next day, or the day after.

Collapse would be the end of civilisation as we know it so forget it.

What happens in a hundred years time I would not think or dare to make a prediction.

Remember in the beginning God created the Heaven and Earth and millions of years later the Banking System created fiat money. ;)

Edited by Ferret
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That is a matter of your opinion. ;)

Well, no statements of opinion can be measured against reality to see if they are valid or not.

The statement

No, its collapse would be the end of our financial enslavement.

Is accurate when measured in that way. We are currently forced at gunpoint to use paper money in exchange for work. This is slavery. Removal of such a system would be the end of that slavery.

Simple really.

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The danger for the dollar right now, is that when Benanke actually feels he's got to act on his words from the day before yesterday, and support the dollar by raising interest rates.

Nothing happens! Dollar continues to go down. That's when the game is up.

If he waits too long, and the ALT-A crisis has time to really kick in, then the prime crisis, people will realise the US economy won't recover even if the Fed raises to 20% IRs. That's when its obvious to everyone its irretrievable.

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Explain.

Maybe you should explain what would happen if fiat money did collapse, not that old chesnut the Gold Standard would replace it.

Just think about it, without fiat money when the time comes for you to buy, unless you have cash, you will be back to the 70s, get in the queue and hope savers throw enough in the pot.

I remember at that time when HPs were sensible most of the time against income, you still had to join the queue and hope the money was there when it was needed to complete your purchase. ;)

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Is accurate when measured in that way. We are currently forced at gunpoint to use paper money in exchange for work. This is slavery. Removal of such a system would be the end of that slavery.

Simple really.

And during the riots that will soon take place in this country due to hyperinflation, the Gov't will wheel out all their latest non-lethal weapons to disperse rioters rather than kill them.

Dead slaves are of no use to their masters.

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And during the riots that will soon take place in this country due to hyperinflation, the Gov't will wheel out all their latest non-lethal weapons to disperse rioters rather than kill them.

Dead slaves are of no use to their masters.

They won't even have breadknives to wave uselessly, will they. :(

I wouldn't set foot in a city right now for all the tea in China.

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They won't even have breadknives to wave uselessly, will they. :(

"Gordon Brown has called for under-18s caught carrying knives to be prosecuted"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7436141.stm

I wouldn't set foot in a city right now for all the tea in China.

If you walked around a city with that amount of tea, you'd only get mugged :P

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ok the current money system will collapse, once the derivatives markets collapse,( capitalist markets is just a reflection of the human life cycle) in order to stop the derivatives market from falling the world needs hyperinflation, meaning billions of people will suffer.

regarding the quote made by my fellow HPCer "No, its collapse would be the end of our financial enslavement" it would just produce some other type of enslavement.

A new economic order will grow out of this current mess, a new start however the higher powers will try to keep their position in society and another form of enslavement will occur.

Edited by crash2006
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We have a particularly harmful, dangerous and unstable type of fiat money, namely debt-based, commercially issued fiat money. This ensures that collectively we can never achieve freedom from debt. We are forced forever to borrow into existence from commercial banks our very means of exchange and to pay handsomely and increasingly for the privilege. A universal means of exchange is essential for a sophisticated modern economy, but there is no good reason why it must be issued to us at interest by a very small but overly powerful section of society. This enormously costly privatisation of our money supply is absurd.

If fiat money were state-issued at negligible cost, debt-free and permanently circulating, the resulting system would be sustainable indefinitely. Our physical notes and coins have these desirable qualities already and there is no fundamental reason why our electronic number-money should not also be of this type. There is scope also for state-issued debt-based fiat money. It’s not the fiat nature of our money that is inherently wrong, it’s the commercial issuing/ lending into existence at interest that costs us so dearly.

To avoid general inflation/deflation, and to restrain corrupt politicians and central bankers, the issue of fiat money would have to be open, transparent, publicly reported and demonstrably in direct proportion to growth in real wealth.

The population/electorate should be intensively educated to understand thoroughly such a fiat money system. This would be by far the best way to maintain the (absolutely necessary) public confidence in the currency.

The coming financial meltdown will make the urgent need for monetary reform glaringly obvious to all.

http://www.moneyreformparty.org.uk/

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Guest Steve Cook
We have a particularly harmful, dangerous and unstable type of fiat money, namely debt-based, commercially issued fiat money. This ensures that collectively we can never achieve freedom from debt. We are forced forever to borrow into existence from commercial banks our very means of exchange and to pay handsomely and increasingly for the privilege. A universal means of exchange is essential for a sophisticated modern economy, but there is no good reason why it must be issued to us at interest by a very small but overly powerful section of society. This enormously costly privatisation of our money supply is absurd.

If fiat money were state-issued at negligible cost, debt-free and permanently circulating, the resulting system would be sustainable indefinitely. Our physical notes and coins have these desirable qualities already and there is no fundamental reason why our electronic number-money should not also be of this type. There is scope also for state-issued debt-based fiat money. It’s not the fiat nature of our money that is inherently wrong, it’s the commercial issuing/ lending into existence at interest that costs us so dearly.

To avoid general inflation/deflation, and to restrain corrupt politicians and central bankers, the issue of fiat money would have to be open, transparent, publicly reported and demonstrably in direct proportion to growth in real wealth.

The population/electorate should be intensively educated to understand thoroughly such a fiat money system. This would be by far the best way to maintain the (absolutely necessary) public confidence in the currency.

The coming financial meltdown will make the urgent need for monetary reform glaringly obvious to all.

http://www.moneyreformparty.org.uk/

I would go with much of this....

Particularly in bold

Edited by Steve Cook
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Maybe you should explain what would happen if fiat money did collapse, not that old chesnut the Gold Standard would replace it.

If you consider currency to be claim on future labour, why not have a money creation system where a person is born, X amount is created by a central bank. This is not necessarily their money but, but there to earn. Any surplus or deficit is where wealth distribtion comes in.

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We have a particularly harmful, dangerous and unstable type of fiat money, namely debt-based, commercially issued fiat money. This ensures that collectively we can never achieve freedom from debt. We are forced forever to borrow into existence from commercial banks our very means of exchange and to pay handsomely and increasingly for the privilege. A universal means of exchange is essential for a sophisticated modern economy, but there is no good reason why it must be issued to us at interest by a very small but overly powerful section of society. This enormously costly privatisation of our money supply is absurd.

If fiat money were state-issued at negligible cost, debt-free and permanently circulating, the resulting system would be sustainable indefinitely. Our physical notes and coins have these desirable qualities already and there is no fundamental reason why our electronic number-money should not also be of this type. There is scope also for state-issued debt-based fiat money. It’s not the fiat nature of our money that is inherently wrong, it’s the commercial issuing/ lending into existence at interest that costs us so dearly.

To avoid general inflation/deflation, and to restrain corrupt politicians and central bankers, the issue of fiat money would have to be open, transparent, publicly reported and demonstrably in direct proportion to growth in real wealth.

The population/electorate should be intensively educated to understand thoroughly such a fiat money system. This would be by far the best way to maintain the (absolutely necessary) public confidence in the currency.

The coming financial meltdown will make the urgent need for monetary reform glaringly obvious to all.

http://www.moneyreformparty.org.uk/

The benefit to ther issuer of the fiat currency for imposing a debt based system would be so massive that it woudln't be resisted for very long.

The idea that you can give a handful of people this sort of power and them not abuse it is pure unadulterated fantasy.

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The benefit to ther issuer of the fiat currency for imposing a debt based system would be so massive that it woudln't be resisted for very long.

The idea that you can give a handful of people this sort of power and them not abuse it is pure unadulterated fantasy.

Such pessimism might well be correct, but I think it would be worthwhile at least to find out in practice rather than just assume so and give up.

Widespread understanding of the money system would be a good start.

Maximisation of both transparency and the permanently circulating proportion of the currency would help.

Sure as hell we cannot go on indefinitely as we are now.

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Such pessimism might well be correct, but I think it would be worthwhile at least to find out in practice rather than just assume so and give up.

Widespread understanding of the money system would be a good start.

Maximisation of both transparency and the permanently circulating proportion of the currency would help.

Sure as hell we cannot go on indefinitely as we are now.

The answer is freedom.

We've already found out in practice. The US system was set up exactly as you describe and now look at it. This is the same problem I have with gold standards - if they worked we wouldn't be here now.

Either you think that people from 1700 and odd were a completely different species or you accept what history tells us - that any mandated standard inevitably falls to corruption. Might take hundreds of years, but it will inevitably get corrupted. Therefore it's silly to claim that the answer to our mandated standard is another mandated standard.

The "government" are not special people. They are people. They do not have any special powers, any special foresight, any special knowledge or any special emotional make up. THey do not care about you any more than you care about complete strangers. They are entirely self interested, as all humans are. Once you hand over this sort of power to others especially in your own mind then you have made a grevious error in personal judgement and are doomed to play the suckers role forever.

The government is not there to provide you servies, they are not there to help you, they are not there to organise peace and prospoerity, They are not there to love you or to replace family members in a psycho drama. They are there to tell you what to do at gunpoint in order to take resources from you and so line their own pockets.

To govern - to order, to regulate, to bring into conformity, to dominate, to discipline, to control.

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