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Is Planning Permission The Bane Of Our Society?


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We will have to agree to disagree here. I have nothing these cabin type homes, and can't see why there can't be zoned areas for them, but they are not what I would consider being lovely. Of course, remembering my rental days, then yes, they are far, far better than a lot of rental accommodation.

Do I remember reading/seeing somewhere that building like this need to be replaced every 10/15 years or so?

They are cheaper than an equivalent sized house for a number of reasons:

1. Less solid build materials

2. Land cost not included

3. Water, sewage, electricity, gas, phone hookup are all extra

4. Insurance issues?

5. Labour to put it togther

6. Delivery

How long should my log home last?

Many examples of log homes built in this traditional manner are with us today over 100 years after construction in some of the harshest environments the world, i.e. Siberia and Northern Scandinavian countries.

Our summer houses and log cabins are made to the highest possible standard from the very region of Russia where they know what it takes, So we can give you a life time warranty on your log home provided you have followed our simple maintenance regime.

labour and delivery is cheap for such a home in comparrision to the "normal" type.

as to land, that is the point. if planning was lax we could actually build these 7 bed 4000 sq foot homes and have change over from 150k. instead we have stupid planning laws which FORCES you to buy a shitty 2 bed house for 200k!

at the same time, lax planning would make rents far far far cheaper. so even if you dont buy a 2 bed house for 200k you are paying stupidly high rents.

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bull$hit.

ultra bull$shit

what makes you think we need "protection from developers". we are not idiots, we pay for our homes and will pay depending on quality amongst other things! so that argument doesn’t have any merit

the "sustainable" buzzwords you retardos use is also very pretentious, ignorant , and extremely patronising.

why am i, who is not a developer, not permitted to build on "virgin" land? if i own it who the F are you to say NO!

i hate planners. VI turds that probably don’t even know they are bowing to VI

Careful mate, let’s keep this civil shall we?

You can’t just build what ever you like because there are not the services to support your building. You need to try your best to understand the things that you are ranting about – at the moment I can’t take your posts seriously because you obviously have no clue about what you are talking about.

So you own a piece of land and no one should be able to tell you what you can build? Right. Well I own the piece next to you, and I’m going to build a power station. Sorry, but there is nothing you can do. Sod off. I’m alright Jack, so there.

See?

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labour and delivery is cheap for such a home in comparrision to the "normal" type.

as to land, that is the point. if planning was lax we could actually build these 7 bed 4000 sq foot homes and have change over from 150k. instead we have stupid planning laws which FORCES you to buy a shitty 2 bed house for 200k!

at the same time, lax planning would make rents far far far cheaper. so even if you dont buy a 2 bed house for 200k you are paying stupidly high rents.

Point taken about the lifetime of the cabin.

But the land cost is a red herring.

If anyone could build anything anywhere without permission, I tend to feel that the cost of a field would very soon exceed the cost of a normal house in today's prices. Why would anyone sell you a field cheaply? And if they WERE available cheaply, then you would get the people with money buying acres around their build anything plot so that a new neighbour could build a pile of cack next door to them.

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What you are asking is the permission to do whatever you like. Sorry pal, but society (i.e. the collective agreement that individuals surrender certain rights for the good of the whole) doesn’t work like that. What you want is essentially very selfish.

is man not free? so long as the things man wants to do, do not harm another who are you to say NO?

and we are taking this to the extream, planners say no to daft things.

"oh your home is bigger than the ones around it, NO"

"oh your home is too small than the ones around it, NO"

"well the homes close it it are in a different design, NO"

"OH you cant build a home for humans there, it is virgin land. BUT if you like, build one for pigs, we lile pigs!!"

" NO NO NO SIR, you cant live there, that is VIRGIN land! only VIRGIN PIGS can live there. else you can use it to intensively farm rape seed oil. but no humans my dear!!"

"well if you build there, the countryside will be spoilt, no sir, that area is only for those that already live there"

"no no no no noooo, 3 floors, in that area? are you CRAZY?"

ect

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Point taken about the lifetime of the cabin.

But the land cost is a red herring.

If anyone could build anything anywhere without permission, I tend to feel that the cost of a field would very soon exceed the cost of a normal house in today's prices. Why would anyone sell you a field cheaply? And if they WERE available cheaply, then you would get the people with money buying acres around their build anything plot so that a new neighbour could build a pile of cack next door to them.

They couldn't own a field - in the absence of planning people are paid to move off land, not to move onto it.

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Cells, this is a serious question, "are you mentally impaired in some way shape or form, or are you simply 14 years old?" All your posts sound like they are made by someone who is not old enough to vote, buy cigarettes, or have consensual sex.

I go back to my earlier point (which was too subtle for Injin), the reason we have planners is the same reason we have referees for football matches. It would be rather chaotic otherwise.

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is man not free? so long as the things man wants to do, do not harm another who are you to say NO?

and we are taking this to the extream, planners say no to daft things.

"oh your home is bigger than the ones around it, NO"

"oh your home is too small than the ones around it, NO"

"well the homes close it it are in a different design, NO"

"OH you cant build a home for humans there, it is virgin land. BUT if you like, build one for pigs, we lile pigs!!"

" NO NO NO SIR, you cant live there, that is VIRGIN land! only VIRGIN PIGS can live there. else you can use it to intensively farm rape seed oil. but no humans my dear!!"

"well if you build there, the countryside will be spoilt, no sir, that area is only for those that already live there"

"no no no no noooo, 3 floors, in that area? are you CRAZY?"

ect

No, man is not free. And you talk of harm – which is EXACTLY why planning was set up in the first place! What you want to do is judged by your elected peers as to whether it harms others or not. Don’t you get it? Don’t you see?

The list you give is an illustration as why planning is important. People – and I think you are a great example of this – are very selfish when if comes to their own actions, but throw a complete wobbly when others impinge on their life.

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No, man is not free. And you talk of harm – which is EXACTLY why planning was set up in the first place! What you want to do is judged by your elected peers as to whether it harms others or not. Don’t you get it? Don’t you see?

The list you give is an illustration as why planning is important. People – and I think you are a great example of this – are very selfish when if comes to their own actions, but throw a complete wobbly when others impinge on their life.

If you actually,. factually damage someone there are ways of proving this - we have courts and so forth.

If it's entirely in your head or part of a claim to something you never had a right to in the first place (such as the value of your house) then tough buns. Other peopel don't need fencing in just because of imaginary anxieties.

Edited to add - nice, you don't think that planners are people.

Edited by Injin
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Cells, this is a serious question, "are you mentally impaired in some way shape or form, or are you simply 14 years old?" All your posts sound like they are made by someone who is not old enough to vote, buy cigarettes, or have consensual sex.

I go back to my earlier point (which was too subtle for Injin), the reason we have planners is the same reason we have referees for football matches. It would be rather chaotic otherwise.

Thank goodness! Finally some sense!

People are very odd, aren’t they? There is thread after thread maoning about the quality of new build property on this forum, about the number of flats, about the state of things, and planning really does try its best to raise the standards. The system needs to be tougher, not more lax. Developers would run amok if they could. The argument made by cells that people are not idiots (oh the irony!) and that we ‘wouldn’t stand for it’ is hardly supported by the facts – look at all the tat built recently.

Edited by Objective Developer
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If you actually,. factually damage someone there are ways of proving this - we have courts and so forth.

If it's entirely in your head or part of a claim to something you never had a right to in the first place (such as the value of your house) then tough buns. Other peopel don't need fencing in just because of imaginary anxieties.

Edited to add - nice, you don't think that planners are people.

You have kind of rescinded your own point here, planning is the arbiter for this exact kind of harm – planning decides whether an action will ‘damage’. When it comes to chopping down trees, digging up land, building a house, it’s a bit too late to bleat about it after the event, wouldn’t you agree?

Edited by Objective Developer
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If you actually,. factually damage someone there are ways of proving this - we have courts and so forth.

If it's entirely in your head or part of a claim to something you never had a right to in the first place (such as the value of your house) then tough buns. Other peopel don't need fencing in just because of imaginary anxieties.

Edited to add - nice, you don't think that planners are people.

Rubbish! Injin, you mostly talk sense, but this is simply nonsense. I would be interested in your opinion if the council were to site an incinerator next to your house, or a chavtastic affordable housing development was parked across from you. What people say and what people do are very often diametrically opposed.

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They couldn't own a field - in the absence of planning people are paid to move off land, not to move onto it.

I'm not sure I understand that. Planning is a separate issue to land ownership.

Someone will own the land you want to put you cabin on. You have to buy it from them. If planning is non-existent then land value will rocket and will turn evene the cheapest, smallest £30k house/cabin into something very much more expensive. Possibly on par with existing (after corrections) house prices.

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No, man is not free. And you talk of harm – which is EXACTLY why planning was set up in the first place! What you want to do is judged by your elected peers as to whether it harms others or not. Don’t you get it? Don’t you see?

The list you give is an illustration as why planning is important. People – and I think you are a great example of this – are very selfish when if comes to their own actions, but throw a complete wobbly when others impinge on their life.

Why can one build a barn for sheep & pigs but in the same area be fought tooth and nail if they wanted to build a home for man in the same spot?

I agree with you, planning is there to protect someone, but it is not the general population. It is by far helping BIG landlords!

Am I am in no means being a hypocrite, I should be permitted to do anything I want so long as it harms no other, and any other person should be able to do anything they wish so long as it doesn’t harm me.

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Thank goodness! Finally some sense!

People are very odd, aren’t they? There is thread after thread maoning about the quality of new build property on this forum, about the number of flats, about the state of things, and planning really does try its best to raise the standards. The system needs to be tougher, not more lax. Developers would run amok if they could. The argument made by cells that people are not idiots (oh the irony!) and that we ‘wouldn’t stand for it’ is hardly supported by the facts – look at all the tat built recently.

that is a contract between two people, the builder and the buyer.

why do you think you have a say in the process?

no sir, you cant buy that, its not quality enough for you!

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Rubbish! Injin, you mostly talk sense, but this is simply nonsense. I would be interested in your opinion if the council were to site an incinerator next to your house, or a chavtastic affordable housing development was parked across from you. What people say and what people do are very often diametrically opposed.

if the incinerator polluted your air or your water in your land or harmed you in any way, you can take them to court. No planning rules required. Only property law

if a chav estate was built near you. again, if the chavs enter your property or damage it then you have the courts.

if you want no chavs, you buy a big enough plot so your home is far enough to be chav free

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that is a contract between two people, the builder and the buyer.

why do you think you have a say in the process?

no sir, you cant buy that, its not quality enough for you!

Oh Lord Cells, you really are beyond help. Stop reading so much Milton Friedman.

I will say this slowly, if all that is available is "crap", where is the "choice"? Now you might like "crap", but I don't.

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Sorry, was busy ramming my head through a brick wall.

Right, so you still don’t get it?

I give in. Well done. You won. You’re right – you know everything about building obviously (I mean, that £30k house for example…), so there is no need to tell you about the issues of development density in relation to transport costs, about service runs the need to supply water and electricity, about sustainable drainage (or anything with the word sustainable in it, because that is utter rubbish according to your well-researched and well versed argument).

I could go on. But I won’t. No point.

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I'm no VI as everyone knows, but Objective Developer makes the most sense here.

Throughout every major city in the land, the skyline has been polluted by crappy new-builds constructed to satisfy the demand of a now-disappeared "investor" class. In the centre of my city, awful new buildings have been put up in the last 5 years that are completely contrary to the city's medieval and Georgian buildings.

So so much more could have been done. There is a failure of the planning system in city centres and urbanised areas because the planning committees are not powerful enough.

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if the incinerator polluted your air or your water in your land or harmed you in any way, you can take them to court. No planning rules required. Only property law

if a chav estate was built near you. again, if the chavs enter your property or damage it then you have the courts.

if you want no chavs, you buy a big enough plot so your home is far enough to be chav free

Great ideas there sport, real genius. Just don't come crying when they're hacking the tumors out of your childrens lungs whilst all the poor band together to take your big plot of land off of you.

You are basically just selfish, that is all it is.

Edited by Objective Developer
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I'm not sure I understand that. Planning is a separate issue to land ownership.

Someone will own the land you want to put you cabin on. You have to buy it from them. If planning is non-existent then land value will rocket and will turn evene the cheapest, smallest £30k house/cabin into something very much more expensive. Possibly on par with existing (after corrections) house prices.

You’re assuming the price of homes would stay the same and this would have zero affect on the price of homes.

in reality, the price of homes would drop dramatically so to be labour + materials + a tiny amount for land. Whereas currently it is labour + materials + a lot for land with PP on it

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I'm no VI as everyone knows, but Objective Developer makes the most sense here.

Throughout every major city in the land, the skyline has been polluted by crappy new-builds constructed to satisfy the demand of a now-disappeared "investor" class. In the centre of my city, awful new buildings have been put up in the last 5 years that are completely contrary to the city's medieval and Georgian buildings.

So so much more could have been done. There is a failure of the planning system in city centres and urbanised areas because the planning committees are not powerful enough.

Totally agreement. The planning system needs to grow some balls. It also needs to go beyond simple land use and get the heart of the matter which is demographic, economics, and politics – your average planner doesn’t have the time of the inclination to deal with these factors, even though that is what planning is.

If it were up to me, planning would face up to it’s responsibilities and do them properly, rather than running in fear from the development industry and central government – then maybe your streets would be a better place.

I can’t help but look at all the new build slums of tomorrow and think ‘remember what they said about the planners in the 60’s? They’ll be saying that about me in 30 years time’. Believe me, I’m trying to stop the built environment going to shit, but without the powers needed it’s an uphill struggle.

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Great ideas there sport, real genius. Just don't come crying when they're hacking the tumors out of your childrens lungs whilst all the poor band together to take your big plot of land off of you.

You are basically just selfish, that is all it is.

Again BULL$HIT, why are you trying to play the angle? You know full well property laws will stop anything-negative happening to you. Your taking credit for something you have no play in!

A FREE system makes you ALL FREE. so how is it selfish in any way.

Now, the planning system well that is selfish and extremely VI.

And who moronic is it to say your selfish for wanting to build your own home on your own land. I’m not asking for any handout or help or anything, I just want you to leave me alone. That is not selfish in any way!

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You’re assuming the price of homes would stay the same and this would have zero affect on the price of homes.

in reality, the price of homes would drop dramatically so to be labour + materials + a tiny amount for land. Whereas currently it is labour + materials + a lot for land with PP on it

Yes, I think that there would be downward pressure on land value – but you are ignoring all the other problems associated with unbridled development. Why don’t you share your views on supporting service such as shops and hospitals? Tell us how all these spread out homes will be serviced by transport? Tell us where the water comes from?

Please, enthral me with your acumen…

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Rubbish! Injin, you mostly talk sense, but this is simply nonsense. I would be interested in your opinion if the council were to site an incinerator next to your house, or a chavtastic affordable housing development was parked across from you. What people say and what people do are very often diametrically opposed.

I don't own next door.

If anything comes onto my property - a smell for example, then that would be a provable fact and I could be compensated for it.

If it has a value, I could then get insurance for it. So a chavtastic slum development I could have bought insurance for and would win either way. While planning and arguing down at the council exist, there is no money to be made from insurance and other mechanisms and so they don't get going.

Planning laws are basically a way for homeowners and others to push the costs of maintaining their property values onto everyone else via taxation and regulation.

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I'm no VI as everyone knows, but Objective Developer makes the most sense here.

Throughout every major city in the land, the skyline has been polluted by crappy new-builds constructed to satisfy the demand of a now-disappeared "investor" class. In the centre of my city, awful new buildings have been put up in the last 5 years that are completely contrary to the city's medieval and Georgian buildings.

So so much more could have been done. There is a failure of the planning system in city centres and urbanised areas because the planning committees are not powerful enough.

Who are you to say what someone can buy or sell?

Do if have the power to enforce you to wear certain cloths? because you look shitty in your normal ones? Should I have that power? I’m sure it will be “nicer on the eye”!

And who is to say your idea of beauty is the correct one?

WTF is wrong with you all!

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