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Is Planning Permission The Bane Of Our Society?


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I found this post on the MSE boards from a guy who works as one of these planning permitter types and found it very informative but quite shocking as to the extent to which planning laws oppress people forcing them to use the rigged system of overpriced property/ rents.

Firstly, if you want to erect one within the residential curtilage of an existing dwelling, then you may be able to do it as permitted development, subjet to compliance with a list of criteria contained in Class E of Part 1, Schedule 2 of the GPDO. Broadly, the cabin should be no higher than 4m high (3m if flat roofed); no nearer to any highway that borders any part of the curtilage of the dwelling (unless it's more than 20m away); does not cover more than 50% of the plot (including other outbuildings already erected); should not be nearer than 5m to the dwelling. Importantly, if you live in an AONB, National Park or Conservation Area then you will fall foul of the requirement for the structure to be less than 10 cu m.

However, all this advice only relates to a structure that is 'incidental to the enjoyment of the dwelling' - if it's to be used as a separate dwelling, then no, you can't build one without planning permission. That's a change of use of the land to an independent residential unit (even if it's already within the curtilage of an existing house).

Secondly, if you're intending to build one on agricultural land, then you can more or less forget it - whilst there are permitted development for agricultural units larger than 5 hectares (although they relate to agricultural buildings, for agricultural uses, not residential ones!), there are no permitted development rights for new buildings on agricultural holdings of less than 5 hectares (see Part 6 of Schedule 2 to the GPDO).

The above poster mentions agricultural dwellings, but you would have to convincingly demonstrate that it is essential for you to live on the agricultural unit - it's very difficult to demonstrate, mainly to guard against abuse of the system!

So, in short, yes you may be able to build a log cabin to use as a summerhouse ro something like that in a garden, but to live in as an independent dwelling - no, not anywhere unfortunately!

Basically you aren't allowed to build anything bigger than a garden shed in your garden and you definitely aren't allowed to live in it even if it is just a garden shed! And thats just for residental land like back gardens, agricultural land like fields has much stricter regs. This is one half of the equation as to how property has turned into an overpriced commodity, it's essentially forced control of supply as there is also strict laws on where new housing can be built and how many dwellings are allowed in each area.

However if something has been erect for over 4 years I believe you can become immune to the permission laws.

Edited by Saberu
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Is Planning Permission The Bane Of Our Society?

No.

Just think of the mess if we let people build what and where they wanted to.

What like the converted garages that are then let out in Bradford ?

I wonder why they dont enforce their removal as they would do in any other county, any ideas ?

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Is Planning Permission The Bane Of Our Society?

No.

Just think of the mess if we let people build what and where they wanted to.

Terrible thought, eh?

We might end up with quirky villages like Stow-on-the-Wold or Clovelly or Boscastle or any number of similar English villages, instead of uniform housing estates jam-packed into a field that has recently been included within the permitted development line drawn on a map by some planning clerk sitting miles away in County Hall.

I mean, why have individuality when mind-numbing conformity and uniformity is the will of our Big Brother State? That would never do, would it, leaving people to their own devices and allowing them to build individual houses on individual plots in a place they choose to live and not one designated by a planning clerk? For sure, people simply cannot be trusted to build decent houses that enhance a village. Far better to have the State dictate what may be built and where. All those lovely high-density housing estates - what could be better?

Edited for typo.

Edited by Methinkshe
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Guest KingCharles1st

Dont get me started.

Planning permission is the saviour or NIMBY's and controlling governments.

You want to know where the greedy with dosh to invest always end up- yes, thats right- they buy LAND.

Land with planning is released onto the market so infrequently, for prices way over sensible, to be afforded only by the few with huge amounts of money. Then guess what- you cant build your dream home- cos it doesn't fit in with Mrs Scroggins shit hole next door :blink:

A total revamp of building, land,planning, and how society wants to live, is LONG OVERDUE. T

There is ony one thing that I think should stick, and thats housing that is in accord to the area it is located in- so a mock Taj mahal in Aberdeen for eample- would struggle to get permission.

OH yes- and all buildings with mock stone facades (like every other house in Southend) would be pulled down immediately :)

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Terrible thought, eh?

We might end up with quirky villages like Stow-on-the-Wold or Clovelly or Boscastle or any number of similar English villages, instead of uniform housing estates jam-packed into a field that has recently been included within the permitted development line drawn on a map by some planning clerk sitting miles away in County Hall.

Those places are only nice because planners don't let greedy developers and landowners f**k them up like everywhere else.

Yes modern housing estates are a disgrace but planners shouldn't take all the blame. Most of the national housebuilders are lazy and unimaginative when it comes to housing design. There is plenty of innovation on the continent with regard to materials and designs that the builders here seem unaware of. Planners can only consider those plans put in front of them - and if it's just dross then dross will get built.

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Those places are only nice because planners don't let greedy developers and landowners f**k them up like everywhere else.

They were built that way in the first instance without any planning regulations. That's why they are so higgledy-piggledy and interesting. Moreover, those villages that remain unspoilt have done so in spite of planning laws, not because of them, imo. Just look how many villages were ruined with the post war building of totally inappropriately designed council houses tacked on to the village outskirts. In the village near where I live, planning consent has ruined the nature of the village; instead of allowing individuals to build individual houses on individual plots, a couple of fields have been given PP and high density estates have been plopped down in the middle of the village.

Yes modern housing estates are a disgrace but planners shouldn't take all the blame. Most of the national housebuilders are lazy and unimaginative when it comes to housing design. There is plenty of innovation on the continent with regard to materials and designs that the builders here seem unaware of. Planners can only consider those plans put in front of them - and if it's just dross then dross will get built.

Developers are forced to build high density housing BECAUSE of the artificially high price of land CAUSED by planning permission rules. Remove the planning permission that artificially inflates the value of building land and individuals and developers could return to building decent one-off houses.

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There is ony one thing that I think should stick, and thats housing that is in accord to the area it is located in- so a mock Taj mahal in Aberdeen for eample- would struggle to get permission.

OH yes- and all buildings with mock stone facades (like every other house in Southend) would be pulled down immediately :)

Like the one in Brighton? :P

I once saw a stone-clad static caravan in Scotland... :huh:

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Wonder what would happen if someone simply went ahead and built one of those nice 15k flatpack homes on a plot with no planning permission. A nice big solar array would do for heating/ electric. Plumbing would be the only really big expense.

Those can be loaded up on a lorry and moved wherever, so are the laws different for them? It's not a permanent fixture and can be destroyed when you die.

Edited by DementedTuna
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It would be nice if we had a german style "right to develop unless the council complain about something" instead of stalinist "you may not fart into the breeze on your own property as it constitutes a temporary gaseous structure, unless you fill in form 'RedTape5128635283268168a' in triplicate by yesterday morning's deadline".

Read Policy Exchange's 3 part review of housing, it's worth it if you can stay awake

Edited by meow
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Terrible thought, eh?

We might end up with quirky villages like Stow-on-the-Wold or Clovelly or Boscastle or any number of similar English villages, instead of uniform housing estates jam-packed into a field that has recently been included within the permitted development line drawn on a map by some planning clerk sitting miles away in County Hall.

I mean, why have individuality when mind-numbing conformity and uniformity is the will of our Big Brother State? That would never do, would it, leaving people to their own devices and allowing them to build individual houses on individual plots in a place they choose to live and not one designated by a planning clerk? For sure, people simply cannot be trusted to build decent houses that enhance a village. Far better to have the State dictate what may be built and where. All those lovely high-density housing estates - what could be better?

Edited for typo.

Well said

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Well said

thing is, things are different now. back then the ability to bodge an extension on, sell the house and profit weren't around as people just didn't move much. nowerdays, if there weren't planning laws houses would grow quickly and uglily. different time needs different rules

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thing is, things are different now. back then the ability to bodge an extension on, sell the house and profit weren't around as people just didn't move much. nowerdays, if there weren't planning laws houses would grow quickly and uglily. different time needs different rules

If a house owner builds an ugly extension he will compromise its sale price. Why would he want to do that?

Isn't it time that people were trusted to take sensible decisions in their own interest?

The assumption that without rules and regulations house owners will build ugly extensions is patronising and typical of the nanny state. There may be a few morons around who might make a mess of a place with a grotty extension, to their own detriment, but these would be very much in the minority so why should we legislate for the lowest common denominator? The vast majority would build an extension that maximises and adds to the value of the property, not one that detracts from it.

Personally, I'm sick of being treated like a complete moron who cannot be trusted to do anything in my own interest never mind the broader interest of society. Talk about infantilising the population!

Edited for typo

Edited by Methinkshe
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There is ony one thing that I think should stick, and thats housing that is in accord to the area it is located in- so a mock Taj mahal in Aberdeen for eample- would struggle to get permission.

What? You mean if people don't have to get planning permission they might build copies of some of the most beautiful buildings ever built? Oh the humanity, got to put a stop to that.

Seriously though whilst the planning laws might make some sense in rather densely populated England they make no sense in Scotland, even though Scotland is a big empty country with lots of beautiful parts most of the people are packed in like sardines. Another issue is it very difficult to get planning permission to build on a hill, which is a stupid rule to have in a hilly country, it means you've got to build on potential farm land and flood planes. If you go to Switzerland you see it is possible to build on very steep hills, and it allows the development of the hills, which in Scotland are usually rather barren wasteland.

All that the planning controls gets us is expensive Soviet style development 17 years after the Soviet Union passed, although it's actually even more restricted than the Soviet Union because there they could have Dachas (country/holiday second homes) which you can't really have here since you can't build in the country.

Edited by Della
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Is Planning Permission The Bane Of Our Society?

Yes

A few rules are necessary to protect neighbours. But we have is nothing less than a rigid system designed to keep the rich getting richer, and the poor.... well you know the rest.

Housing could be affordable for all, very affordable. But the rules prevent it for financial gain of the few.

This country never lost the class system. Land is the commodity of choice. And it is protected fanatically.

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However if something has been erect for over 4 years I believe you can become immune to the permission laws.

Here's an idea.

1) Buy a field without planning permission.

2) Erect a massive, hollowed out haystack. Must just look like a haystack.

3) Build your house inside the haystack.

4) Four years later, tear down the haystack. TA DA!

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why does one need permission to build a home for himself and his family?

a massive lovely house would cost no more than 30k if we didnt have retardo planning laws and no more than £300 per month to rent.

How easy do you think it would be to build a massive lovely house for 30k? :blink:

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Here's an idea.

1) Buy a field without planning permission.

2) Erect a massive, hollowed out haystack. Must just look like a haystack.

3) Build your house inside the haystack.

4) Four years later, tear down the haystack. TA DA!

Didn't someone do exactly that with a mock castle they built recently? Can't remember whether they won their appeal or not.

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