Could We All Agree On Something Here...

[blackhole]

The middle class who have borrowed to the hilt are not middle class, and I believe they should be called the 'borrowing class' or in some cases, the 'MEW class'. Getting a little sick and tired of reading the middle class are in trouble, when they've clearly borrowed their way to look 'middle class'.

What is the proper 'middle class' definition, anyway?!

Edited May 27, 2008 by blackhole

[Allah be praised]

The middle class who have borrowed to the hilt are not middle class, and I believe they should be called the 'borrowing class' or in some cases, the 'MEW class'. Getting a little sick and tired of reading the middle class are in trouble, when they've clearly borrowed their way to look 'middle class'.

What is the proper 'middle class' definition, anyway?!

God knows - guess you`d have to get a sociologist in to put everyone into neat and tidy little pigeon-hole classes (just watch out for the left-over mung-bean dahl, beards and sandals!)

Sociology - what a pile of crap!

[29929BlackTuesday]

Interesting point.

I think journalists use middle class to be vaguely insulting and because it's waffly enough to impossible to verify.

Middle class? Not sure what wickepediafile says but in many ways the middle class have always (well, since Victorian times) been defined by the 'apeing of one's peers' and now it's done with debt.

Everyone's a country doctor now 'don't ya know'?

[symo]

The middle class who have borrowed to the hilt are not middle class, and I believe they should be called the 'borrowing class' or in some cases, the 'MEW class'. Getting a little sick and tired of reading the middle class are in trouble, when they've clearly borrowed their way to look 'middle class'.

What is the proper 'middle class' definition, anyway?!

I think you will find they are middle class; being complete r'tards with loans does not dimish the fact they are better off than whole families with a joint income of £35k.

Edited May 27, 2008 by symo

[Guest KingCharles1st]

Personally, I would say that a lot of people have had to borrow like mad to remain "middle class..?

[rickybruce]

i think the masterplan is that we all become 'middle class' but that isn't a good thing, all these moves like minimum wage, tax credits, income guarantees, all seem to be moves to bring all our wages in line. If everyone becomes the middle class, then we all become the de facto lower class, slaves to our masters, the bankers and the land owners.

[Guest Steve Cook]

The middle class who have borrowed to the hilt are not middle class, and I believe they should be called the 'borrowing class' or in some cases, the 'MEW class'. Getting a little sick and tired of reading the middle class are in trouble, when they've clearly borrowed their way to look 'middle class'.

What is the proper 'middle class' definition, anyway?!

I completely agree with this

Unless you have significant liquid capital available to you that is not based on heavy borrowing. If you have to work to earn a salary once a month. If, in the absence of that salary, you are screwed within a couple of months. You are working class.

That'll be most people, then.

Edited May 27, 2008 by Steve Cook

[eric pebble]

Personally, I would say that a lot of people have had to borrow like mad to remain "middle class..?

Oh I dunno --- just lie about your income - and suddenly you're middle class!!! WATCH IT HAPPEN HERE ON VIDEO!!

http://video.news.sky.com/skynews/video/?&...270508_0900.flv

Edited May 27, 2008 by eric pebble

[The Bachelor of Arts]

Traditionally the upper class were the landowners, the middle class owned the 'means of production' (factories etc), lower middle were doctors, lawyers, engineers etc, and people who worked were the working class.

I class myself and most of my colleagues as working class (upper) even though the media, and others would class us as middle class.

This 'we are all MC' idea is in my view a myth...........just look at everyone commuting to work, having little spare time, less spare cash, debt etc,. and then compare that to the live of the Edwardian MC gentlemen who had ample leisure time and lots of spare cash. A great con game that has convinced many that they are not working class even though they are.

[Bloo Loo]

im an untouchable

[Injin]

Traditionally the upper class were the landowners, the middle class owned the 'means of production' (factories etc), lower middle were doctors, lawyers, engineers etc, and people who worked were the working class.

I class myself and most of my colleagues as working class (upper) even though the media, and others would class us as middle class.

This 'we are all MC' idea is in my view a myth...........just look at everyone commuting to work, having little spare time, less spare cash, debt etc,. and then compare that to the live of the Edwardian MC gentlemen who had ample leisure time and lots of spare cash. A great con game that has convinced many that they are not working class even though they are.

It's because production has gotten better and so the working class can own things that were previously middle class markers. It's obvious bull - like saying you are the same class as a victorian baron because you own a top hat.

Class is relative.

Edited May 27, 2008 by Injin

[rickybruce]

It's obvious bull - like saying you are the same class as a victorian baron because you own a top hat.

lol

[right_freds_dead]

What is the proper 'middle class' definition, anyway?!

someone educated enough to know they are poor.

[The Conveyancer]

Traditionally the upper class were the landowners, the middle class owned the 'means of production' (factories etc), lower middle were doctors, lawyers, engineers etc, and people who worked were the working class.

I class myself and most of my colleagues as working class (upper) even though the media, and others would class us as middle class.

This 'we are all MC' idea is in my view a myth...........just look at everyone commuting to work, having little spare time, less spare cash, debt etc,. and then compare that to the live of the Edwardian MC gentlemen who had ample leisure time and lots of spare cash. A great con game that has convinced many that they are not working class even though they are.

So I am lower middle class then being a professional.

I cant afford to own my own house, I need to go to work to earn a wage, I cant even afford a holiday this year (or last). I would say I am very working class, just like 90% of my colleagues.

[Pezerinno]

For me class is less about money and more about your attitude, beliefs, education etc

[The Ayatollah Buggeri]

People tend to define 'middle class' in one of two ways - it's either a function of how much money you have, or your educational/social background. I think we take the latter more into account than the Americans, who don't really recognise the concept of a working class (and only recognise the notion of an upper class to a very limited extent) - for them, 'middle class' effectively means anyone who works for a living but isn't a millionaire. On the other hand, I think most Brits would tend to regard someone who, for example, was very well educated but also very poor as being middle class, whereas people like rich Labour MPs (Michael Martin springs to mind) doggedly persist in calling themselves working class, even though they're a lot wealthier than most workers who have much higher educational and professional credentials.

[Pdiddy]

'Big Brother' starts on C4 next week, If you don't watch it someone will label you middle class

[blackhole]

For me class is less about money and more about your attitude, beliefs, education etc

Thats what I thought it was, though the media portray it entirely differently. The thread was in response to a moneysupermarket email subject titled : "Middle class debt crisis, fixed energy deals, mortgage clampdown, top 10 hoilday tips".

You know, I never ever thought about class much until lately when the mainstream media is shouting how the middle class has issues. I honestly didnt care upto now.

[Mr Nice]

Middle class would have been those in a position of being able to have savings, along with education imo.

just because many people have begun to live way beyond their means putting them into a sea of debt doesn't make them not middle class anymore.

[Bloo Loo]

I think we could agree that people in this earnings bracket are inthe top 5% of earners.

That must tell us something

[blackhole]

'Big Brother' starts on C4 next week, If you don't watch it someone will label you middle class

I rather be labelled 'middle class' than lose my sanity watching that *****.

[meow]

I prefer the term new-faux rich...

neveux rich -> new-false rich -> new-faux rich

Edited May 27, 2008 by meow

[DementedTuna]

I consider middle class to meet the following criteria:

- University or college education

- In the 40% tax band

- No debt. Savings and investments instead.

- High potential for early retirement at 50.

[Bloo Loo]

I consider middle class to meet the following criteria:

- University or college education

- In the 40% tax band

- No debt. Savings and investments instead.

- High potential for early retirement at 50.

you missed off "no visible means of income"

Wife would say- "my husband, he's something in the city dontchaknow. dont understand it, its all terribly important and complicated Darling."

[Mr Nice]

People tend to define 'middle class' in one of two ways - it's either a function of how much money you have, or your educational/social background. I think we take the latter more into account than the Americans, who don't really recognise the concept of a working class (and only recognise the notion of an upper class to a very limited extent) - for them, 'middle class' effectively means anyone who works for a living but isn't a millionaire. On the other hand, I think most Brits would tend to regard someone who, for example, was very well educated but also very poor as being middle class, whereas people like rich Labour MPs (Michael Martin springs to mind) doggedly persist in calling themselves working class, even though they're a lot wealthier than most workers who have much higher educational and professional credentials.

America has "Blue Collar" and "White Collar" to differentiate between the groups.

Factory workers etc are blue, professionals are white. income really doesn't play into it much since they both can have fairly similar lives and standards.

it's more a difference in lifestyle and education.

Edited May 27, 2008 by Mr Nice