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It feels like they've benchmarked it against similar spec properties while failing to notice they're a couple of bedrooms short of the competition.  It'll be interesting to see what it eventually sells for - £400k per bedroom is some serious money.

For comparison, a close relative bought a very comfortably sized 3 bed, with a study that could easily be called a 4th, all done out to a similar specification for sub £900k - and that was in Earlsfield which is half the distance from central London.

I don't know where they have got the price from. Looking at the recent sales on Rightmove, another modernised one on the very same terrace sold for £925k in June this year, and that had an extra bedroom in the loft already!

Everyone seems to think that they will be a beneficiary of the 'COVID bounce', but I'm not so sure about this area. A lot of the value is in the commute and if that is less important for more people, why wouldn't they move further out and get more for their money?

At the other end of the scale, this price puts it above a lot of areas that are further into London and traditionally more expensive. Your Earlsfield example is one, but you can buy this type of house in Barnes or Richmond for this money AND you'll be in a good part rather than out by the industrial estate!

 

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Agree.  Zone 6 isn't the "London Escape" that springs to mind when I think of moving to the country.

 

It's all about the net effect. There will be some people who move out of zone 1 to zone 2/3 and wouldn't even consider going any further. There are others who will live in commutable places further out (say Woking) and grab the opportunity to move further out if working from home allows them to.

More people seem to be using this to be looking for areas where they can get more for their money rather than a complete change of lifestyle.

I think that Zone 6 still could be an attractive compromise for some London movers, BUT only if it's priced right. If this house is priced right, then:

1. People moving out of most parts of London won't be able to afford it as it's the same price/more than where they are moving from.

2. People who live in that type of house already will be clamouring to move out as they will be able to afford much more elsewhere.

Of course, we know that isn't the right price, but it only takes one person to be willing to pay it.

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It's all about the net effect. There will be some people who move out of zone 1 to zone 2/3 and wouldn't even consider going any further. There are others who will live in commutable places further out (say Woking) and grab the opportunity to move further out if working from home allows them to.

More people seem to be using this to be looking for areas where they can get more for their money rather than a complete change of lifestyle.

I think that Zone 6 still could be an attractive compromise for some London movers, BUT only if it's priced right. If this house is priced right, then:

1. People moving out of most parts of London won't be able to afford it as it's the same price/more than where they are moving from.

2. People who live in that type of house already will be clamouring to move out as they will be able to afford much more elsewhere.

Of course, we know that isn't the right price, but it only takes one person to be willing to pay it.

This is all true.  I do question just how much more you get for your money in Kingston / Surbiton though.

I lived in SE1 for quite a few years (as a partner of a phd student we got dirt cheap accommodation).  Zero commuting costs if you work in the city, just a quick stroll across London Bridge.  Even the West End is easily walkable.

In SE1 the cheapest 3 bed house on RM is £675k right now.  In KT2 they start at £580k (both examples are actually pretty decent properties).  In the middle you've got places like Putney where you can get 3 beds sub £500k.

Much though I love Kingston, personally £95k (14%) saving isn't really representative of just how far out of London it feels sometimes compared with SE1.  If you've ever been forced to catch the night bus from Vauxhall you'll know what I mean...

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This is all true.  I do question just how much more you get for your money in Kingston / Surbiton though.

I lived in SE1 for quite a few years (as a partner of a phd student we got dirt cheap accommodation).  Zero commuting costs if you work in the city, just a quick stroll across London Bridge.  Even the West End is easily walkable.

In SE1 the cheapest 3 bed house on RM is £675k right now.  In KT2 they start at £580k (both examples are actually pretty decent properties).  In the middle you've got places like Putney where you can get 3 beds sub £500k.

Much though I love Kingston, personally £95k (14%) saving isn't really representative of just how far out of London it feels sometimes compared with SE1.  If you've ever been forced to catch the night bus from Vauxhall you'll know what I mean...

That has been my argument for the last 8 years on this thread, yet Kingston and Surbiton still manage to find these deluded buyers. 

the locality of the river is probably the biggest draw to sw london all surbiton has is the perceived fast train to London which is actually very crowded and slow other places are much better to live 

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the locality of the river is probably the biggest draw to sw london

Yup, that's the only reason we're still here.  We paddleboard and kayak and this stretch of the Thames is one of the nicest bits of water in the country for that.  It does amaze me how lacking the pubs and culture generally are along the river here though.  Compared to, say, Bristol, it's like a ghost town down by the water's edge.

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Yup, that's the only reason we're still here.  We paddleboard and kayak and this stretch of the Thames is one of the nicest bits of water in the country for that.  It does amaze me how lacking the pubs and culture generally are along the river here though.  Compared to, say, Bristol, it's like a ghost town down by the water's edge.

I think a lot of that is to do with the industrial history - Kingston has been called the town that turned it's back on the river, which is odd given it's the one thing that sets it apart from a lot of other similar places.

When I first arrived here, the Charter Quay development was still a disused car park, the row of riverside restaurants by the bridge was a multi-storey car park with one single restaurant and there was still a disused power station behind Canbury Gardens. John Lewis had not long been built, but even the riverside space built into their building was hardly used.

So things have improved a bit, but not much. The whole High Street area has been forgotten about after the Rose theatre and that could be an ideal place for smaller independent businesses to be based and take advantage of the river. Surbiton is the same - one pub on the river and nothing else.

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22 hours ago, naturals said:

Yup, that's the only reason we're still here.  We paddleboard and kayak and this stretch of the Thames is one of the nicest bits of water in the country for that.  It does amaze me how lacking the pubs and culture generally are along the river here though.  Compared to, say, Bristol, it's like a ghost town down by the water's edge.

maybe nobody can actually afford to go to the pub...

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I spotted a few properties in Kingston which have appeared in Land Registry figures for LESS than the last sale price:

 

Skerne Road - Last sold 2014.  Down 5.7% since then. https://www.zoopla.co.uk/property-history/flat-24/3-skerne-road/kingston-upon-thames/kt2-5fj/51343284

Warren Road - Last sold 2016.  Down 2.2% since.  https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5513412ae4b098324cab9b4e/t/565c6e1be4b0a63eb2d7b907/1448898075118/3+Fairlawn.pdf

Riverside apartment - Last sold 2016.  Down 14%.  https://www.zoopla.co.uk/property-history/flat-4/admiralty-building/17-henry-macaulay-avenue/kingston-upon-thames/kt2-5ff/53078251

Central 1bed - Last sold 2015.  Down 3.2%.  https://www.zoopla.co.uk/property-history/flat-2/26-knights-park/kingston-upon-thames/kt1-2qn/52153413

Another central 1 bed - Last sold 2015.  Down 6.1%.  https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=68272926&sale=90627924&country=england

 

There's also loads which have completed at less than real terms inflation.

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I spotted a few properties in Kingston which have appeared in Land Registry figures for LESS than the last sale price:

 

Skerne Road - Last sold 2014.  Down 5.7% since then. https://www.zoopla.co.uk/property-history/flat-24/3-skerne-road/kingston-upon-thames/kt2-5fj/51343284

Warren Road - Last sold 2016.  Down 2.2% since.  https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5513412ae4b098324cab9b4e/t/565c6e1be4b0a63eb2d7b907/1448898075118/3+Fairlawn.pdf

Riverside apartment - Last sold 2016.  Down 14%.  https://www.zoopla.co.uk/property-history/flat-4/admiralty-building/17-henry-macaulay-avenue/kingston-upon-thames/kt2-5ff/53078251

Central 1bed - Last sold 2015.  Down 3.2%.  https://www.zoopla.co.uk/property-history/flat-2/26-knights-park/kingston-upon-thames/kt1-2qn/52153413

Another central 1 bed - Last sold 2015.  Down 6.1%.  https://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detailMatching.html?prop=68272926&sale=90627924&country=england

 

There's also loads which have completed at less than real terms inflation.

I'd be surprised if there are many flats in the area that have actually beaten inflation since 2013-14. 

It is a bit more surprising that some established ones have already fallen though.

The last example would have been a new build in 2015, bought with a Help to Buy bung, so I'd have expected that to have fallen further than 6.1% from the artificial price. The others not so much.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Curious to know peoples thoughts on what this is worth / likely to sell for.  I have zero interest in the property, other than idle curiosity.

Last similar sold for £1.65m literally 72hrs after we went into lockdown.  This one looks like it needs a bit of modernisation and has already had a meaty reduction.

I don't see the appeal myself.  A bit grandiose and a not very convenient location.  There's plenty of nicer spots on the river for much less.

https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/52832971?search_identifier=29ba195da19b932b403e15c6021350f7

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Curious to know peoples thoughts on what this is worth / likely to sell for.  I have zero interest in the property, other than idle curiosity.

Last similar sold for £1.65m literally 72hrs after we went into lockdown.  This one looks like it needs a bit of modernisation and has already had a meaty reduction.

I don't see the appeal myself.  A bit grandiose and a not very convenient location.  There's plenty of nicer spots on the river for much less.

https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/52832971?search_identifier=29ba195da19b932b403e15c6021350f7

I picture these mainly appealing to retirees, perhaps those downsizing from bigger houses on the Coombe estate so with a lot of cash to pump in.

The usual rules don't seem to apply when it comes to Coombe - it's generally a totally different market segment to the surrounding areas so far less reliance on easy access to transport and facilities.

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  • 3 months later...

So much for my prediction/hope in my post of 30th September 2020 that this area might not be the ideal candidate for a 'COVID-bounce', as that appears to be very much what has happened.

There seems to be an article in The Times almost daily about 'escaping London', '90 is the new 60', 'move to the country' etc., but what actually seems to be happening is that most people are either staying put or moving to outer London and the direct surrounds, perhaps because they think things will go back to 'normal' sooner rather than later.

I don't think that Kingston has benefitted as much as the usual suspects outside of the M25 (Weybridge, Guildford, Sevenoaks etc.) where prices really seem to have shot up, but it's not too far behind.

There still seems to be a severe lack of supply as well, which is probably compounding the problem somewhat.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 30/09/2020 at 14:08, naturals said:

It feels like they've benchmarked it against similar spec properties while failing to notice they're a couple of bedrooms short of the competition.  It'll be interesting to see what it eventually sells for - £400k per bedroom is some serious money.

For comparison, a close relative bought a very comfortably sized 3 bed, with a study that could easily be called a 4th, all done out to a similar specification for sub £900k - and that was in Earlsfield which is half the distance from central London.

Ah good old Earlsfield. Remember going into the EAs that line Garratt Lane and saying our Max budget was £100k and being shown the door. We did find a small one bed for £76k in the end across from the Italian restaurant near the leather bottle pub.  
 

 

 

 

 

 

This was back in 1999 mind ☹️

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  • 2 weeks later...

Anyone know what's going on with these flats?  Not the prettiest building but a decent location a short walk from Norbiton station and Richmond Park.  10min walk into Kingston.

Currently £300k, last sold 2013 for £567,500 - https://ww2.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/56027953/

£350k "cash buyers only" - https://ww2.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/58001280/

Houseprices.io 2020 sales:

Flat 85 £240k 

Flat 5 £265k (down from £330k in 2016).

The first listing has a crane in the photo - they recently did some external redecoration.  I assume they wouldn't have done this if there were cladding issues.  Issues with the leasehold maybe?

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On 17/03/2021 at 19:54, naturals said:

Anyone know what's going on with these flats?  Not the prettiest building but a decent location a short walk from Norbiton station and Richmond Park.  10min walk into Kingston.

Currently £300k, last sold 2013 for £567,500 - https://ww2.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/56027953/

£350k "cash buyers only" - https://ww2.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/58001280/

Houseprices.io 2020 sales:

Flat 85 £240k 

Flat 5 £265k (down from £330k in 2016).

The first listing has a crane in the photo - they recently did some external redecoration.  I assume they wouldn't have done this if there were cladding issues.  Issues with the leasehold maybe?

The first link just defaults to the Zoopla listing for all of Kingston, but i assume it is this one?

https://ww2.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/53676123/?search_identifier=735a7400d61befcb791b9ebcfae804d2

This is the Kingsnymptom Park estate, the second biggest council estate in Kingston after the Cambridge estate.

I don't think there is as much trouble there as the Cambridge estate, but I've heard of a few incidents over the years.

It's classic Kingston council planning - there used to be a large mansion with grounds there and rather than build houses similar to the direct surrounds they choose to build a large, highly dense council estate!

It will be interesting to see what happens with this estate going forward. The Cambridge estate is being redeveloped to an even higher density, so they might choose to do the same for this one next.

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7 hours ago, worried1 said:

The first link just defaults to the Zoopla listing for all of Kingston, but i assume it is this one?

https://ww2.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/53676123/?search_identifier=735a7400d61befcb791b9ebcfae804d2

This is the Kingsnymptom Park estate, the second biggest council estate in Kingston after the Cambridge estate.

I don't think there is as much trouble there as the Cambridge estate, but I've heard of a few incidents over the years.

It's classic Kingston council planning - there used to be a large mansion with grounds there and rather than build houses similar to the direct surrounds they choose to build a large, highly dense council estate!

It will be interesting to see what happens with this estate going forward. The Cambridge estate is being redeveloped to an even higher density, so they might choose to do the same for this one next.

That's the correct property, but I think (and I could be wrong) it's separate to Kingsnymptom.  I know Eaton Drive pretty well (wife has friends there and I used to rent a garage there) and I'd say it's anything but council estate.  The houses on the road go around the £700k mark and there are some very nice cars outside.  This apartment block is part of Eaton Drive rather than the estate to the north.

Council estate or not though, £567k to £300k asking in eight years is a savage drop.

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On 19/03/2021 at 19:13, naturals said:

That's the correct property, but I think (and I could be wrong) it's separate to Kingsnymptom.  I know Eaton Drive pretty well (wife has friends there and I used to rent a garage there) and I'd say it's anything but council estate.  The houses on the road go around the £700k mark and there are some very nice cars outside.  This apartment block is part of Eaton Drive rather than the estate to the north.

Council estate or not though, £567k to £300k asking in eight years is a savage drop.

That interesting, I think you might be right. I’d always considered that block to be part of the Kingsnympton estate, but perhaps it isn’t.

The estate would still have an effect on values, I’d expect. There have been several private blocks built on the edge of the Cambridge estate in the past few years and they are nowhere near the crazy prices for new build flats elsewhere in Kingston.

The drop in value seems huge, but £567k seems a lot to have paid for a flat there eight years ago.

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39 minutes ago, worried1 said:

The drop in value seems huge, but £567k seems a lot to have paid for a flat there eight years ago.

Yeah, I can't quite understand it. 

£567k eight years ago would have bought 99.9% of 2-bed flats in Kingston I'd imagine.  Only stuff along the river would be punching up at those prices.  A flat in an area we can't be sure isn't a council estate isn't exactly prime real estate is it?!

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13 minutes ago, naturals said:

Yeah, I can't quite understand it. 

£567k eight years ago would have bought 99.9% of 2-bed flats in Kingston I'd imagine.  Only stuff along the river would be punching up at those prices.  A flat in an area we can't be sure isn't a council estate isn't exactly prime real estate is it?!


Yep, I can’t imagine there were that many flats much over £567k back then, just the best few at each of the new developments

The prices of flats now generally seem to be determined by how new the development is, hence the asking prices of over £1m for some of the brand new flats overlooking College Roundabout being more expensive than the ‘second hand’ ones with river views and no traffic noise. It’s odd to me, but I suppose some people really value having a brand new home!

Proximity to the large estates is the one thing that does tend to dent the price of the new builds a bit.

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50 minutes ago, naturals said:

And much easier as a first purchase thanks to Help to Buy.

I can definitely understand that, but only the small 1 bed flats are now under £600k. The 2/3 bed flats are a lot more than that so don't qualify for Help to Buy.

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On 19/03/2021 at 19:13, naturals said:

That's the correct property, but I think (and I could be wrong) it's separate to Kingsnymptom.  I know Eaton Drive pretty well (wife has friends there and I used to rent a garage there) and I'd say it's anything but council estate.  The houses on the road go around the £700k mark and there are some very nice cars outside.  This apartment block is part of Eaton Drive rather than the estate to the north.

Council estate or not though, £567k to £300k asking in eight years is a savage drop.

I was thinking of buying a garage there (as you know there are several rows of them) and got speaking to a resident in the block of flats.  Can't remember all the details but he said maintenance was dreadful, there were leaks which didn't get fixed etc.  Can't remember all the issues but it sounded pretty bad and he was desperate to sell and get out.  Didn't buy the garage as it was leasehold with lots and lots of conditions and costs. 

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  • 1 month later...

I remember speculating on this thread (many) years ago when the price of a standard 30s semi in Surbiton would pass £1m. 

We've now arrived at the day when a Victorian 2up-2down passes that mark, in asking price at least:

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/95097623#/

It's quite nicely done, and I'm not saying its the worst value house on the market in the area at the moment, but it's one of those where the price made me do a bit of a double-take, and that is saying something after all of these years of madness.

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