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Kingston Upon Thames


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Unless a house is so pricey that no-one at all can afford it then it is not overpriced... it may be expensive, but it is not overpriced. if there are people out there who can afford it and would be able to consider it to be fair value with regard to what they're looking for, then its not overpriced.

it would only be overpriced if all people who wanted it couldn't afford it.

this may be a much said thing, but nobody has a right to own a house. If you can't afford a house and there is sufficient demand in an area to hold prices fairly steady, then (although it sounds harsh) that's unfortunate for you. You desire to and want to purchase a property, but this is one of those things where 'fair' doesn't really come into it... its business and its a market.

(i hope this doesn't make me sound too hard nosed :) i also hope it doesn't make me sound stupid :) )

Actaully I'd say that you are candid rather than hard nosed!

However, I do disagree on how something get's catagorised as overpriced. It's all down to the market. If a property raises no interest and the people who view feel that they are not prepared to pay the asking price then I'd say it's overpriced (for the market). This is not dependent on whether they can or cannot afford it. You, as the seller are entitled to withdraw or reject the offers unless you are forced to move or dont have the means to not sell. I also think that if you consider the hard nosed approach, then you may also expect the people of Kingston to drive the seller into a much harder bargin. This may end up in stalemate but something will have to give in the end unless migration comes to a halt!

Edited by kittingerjump
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Unless a house is so pricey that no-one at all can afford it then it is not overpriced... it may be expensive, but it is not overpriced. if there are people out there who can afford it and would be able to consider it to be fair value with regard to what they're looking for, then its not overpriced.

it would only be overpriced if all people who wanted it couldn't afford it.

this may be a much said thing, but nobody has a right to own a house. If you can't afford a house and there is sufficient demand in an area to hold prices fairly steady, then (although it sounds harsh) that's unfortunate for you. You desire to and want to purchase a property, but this is one of those things where 'fair' doesn't really come into it... its business and its a market.

(i hope this doesn't make me sound too hard nosed :) i also hope it doesn't make me sound stupid :) )

What utter b0ll0cks..and yes..it does make you sound stupid - infact it makes you sound VERY stupid - to say houses are not overpriced. The whole of the western world has now realised that houses are overpriced...and yet you don't think so !?!

PS. What confirmed you were stupid was when you said "its (sic) a business". A house is not/should not be a business, it should be a home. You however have shown your true colours.

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The whole of the western world has now realised that houses are overpriced

if houses are overpriced now then they were overpriced a couple of years ago. And if there were overpriced a couple of years ago i wouldn't have been able to afford to to buy into one.

i'm not saying that houses are not expensive at the moment. of course they are. but if people (ok, not all, but some) can afford to buy the house they want (and right now, a good many people still can) then whatever house they buy, that house is not overpriced for the people buying it... they saw it, they want it, they want it now, they can afford it.

i honestly think a lot of this is down to terminology: overpriced vs expensive. I am agreeing with you in your main sentiment because i do acknowledge that all houses right now are expensive, in relation to what's gone before in history. But not all houses are overpriced for many of those who want them.

A house is not/should not be a business, it should be a home

a house can be both: it can generate you money if you choose to sell (i'm sure i'm not the first person to attempt to invest in property)... but it must also primarily be a home, you're absolutely 100% correct and i completely agree. my house is definitely primarily a home and if my property doesn't sell and selling it becomes unviable then i'll happily live in it for years to come, i love the place.

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However, I do disagree on how something get's catagorised as overpriced. It's all down to the market. If a property raises no interest and the people who view feel that they are not prepared to pay the asking price then I'd say it's overpriced (for the market). This is not dependent on whether they can or cannot afford it.

this is interesting. its impossible to refute what you're saying because you're right, it is a market and if buyers don't want to pay the going rate then there will be no deal. they way that you define 'overpriced' would apply here and i accept that.

as you recognise, the way i define overpriced is different and i do link it to the affordability of some. Without retracting or changing my initial sentiments of 'if its a price someone is able to pay and will eventually be inclined to pay given the right set of circumstances then its the right price' then i'd be happy to use a different term and leave 'overpriced' to be used in the context you give, because your definition does have integrity.

Edited by snuffle_uk
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Out this morning.

Rightmove monthly announcement (July 2008)

Kingston Upon Thames came off worst to all London boroughs.

Kingston-upon-Thames £514,371 £524,966 -2.0%

Can those average asking prices be right? What with the mass of flats on the market at the moment, I wouldn't have thought so.

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Can those average asking prices be right? What with the mass of flats on the market at the moment, I wouldn't have thought so.

lies, damn lies and statistics?!

There are lots of properties though way above that average so maybe it does work out. What is interesting is that Richmond which is near by has faired well. Now this could be just chance, or the fact that traditionally well performing areas will take longer to adjust.

Kingston is very quiet at the moment. Even tonight walking through the center of town there was an air of calm which is unusual. I also feel that people will not be able to live off the river road sceanario / luxury appartments angle for much longer going by some of the recent printed prices.

Anyway, lots of people have lurked on this thread so please comment, it's good to add to the discussion....

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lies, damn lies and statistics?!

My thoughts precisely!

3 bed houses in the Tudor Dr area are now starting to come down - several now in the £380-90 bracket, and one even at £365-ish. Besides the flats, I watch these particularly because they're the cheapest family houses in the best-schools area. So I should have thought they'd be be among the most sought-after, esp. since a lot of people move to KoT purely for the schools.

One of the flats in the Apex block (London Rd) is now up for £194-ish - that's a new low.

Lately I've noticed several large full-colour ads in the weekend prop. supplements for that Trinity Reach development. Still offers around £1.69m - from orig. price of £2.2. Doesn't look as if anybody's yet made them that 'offer we can't refuse'.

I've also noticed quite a few properties - flats and houses- up for sale and rent at the same time.

(Obviously I'm spending far too much time on property websites)

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I live in KT2 and have been keeping an eye on propertysnake since people started talking about it on this site last year. For a long time the max drop in this post code was around 8/9% whereas now we're seeing >15% falls.

Anecdotally, a friend of mine was looking for 2 bed flat in the area for under £250,000 in early 2007. He had to give up because they were all being snapped up too quickly and what was left needed too much work. A quick scan on rightmove now shows loads in that price range and more dropping into it.

From what I'm seeing, by 2010/11 that £250,000 budget will get a decent 2 bed terrace in North Kingston.

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You must share a dictionary with Alanis Morrisette. There is absolutely nothing ironic about my comment. I rent a house in Wimbledon for £700pm less than a 90% mortgage on Snuffle's flat would be. So it seems pretty obvious that the flat is over-priced.

Sentiment is changing, and people aren't rushing to buy so they don't get left behind anymore. So if they can rent a better property for less then even if they can afford to buy they are tending to wait and see what happens next year. Also with prices falling the concept of a "property ladder" disappears, so "starter homes" and flats become utterly unattractive to anyone who is considering starting a family in the next 5-10 years.

So yes I could afford to buy that flat, but that in no-way makes it worth the money.

Not aimed specifically at your comment, but I extrapolated and applied my own interpretation (tongue-in-cheek) to a few posts on this thread not just your own.

Irony as the consensus here is to instill the belief that prices will fall by a large percentage, yet at the same time some posts were providing evidence that would undermine any significant correction in this area i.e. Affordable compared to adjacent areas, affordable to the FTB and some obvious pent-up demand.

Affordability is the key, sentiment alone will not drive the market down to the degree you wish for.

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For a long time the max drop in this post code was around 8/9% whereas now we're seeing >15% falls.

I'd be interested to know what % drops people are seeing for actual completed sale prices compared with 2007 on specific areas they are following.

Property snake always seems to just throw up the bargain basement stuff people would steer clear of anyway even in a rising market.

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I have been away for a while, and things have really moved on in that time.

A quick glance in a Surbiton EA this morning showed a 3 bed semi in 'The Mall' reduced from £685k to £595k - 13%. This is still expensive compared to most locally, but up until last year similar houses on this road were selling for £650k+ within days of going on the market. This one has been on for months.

A 2 bed flat in Grove Road has been reduced from £350k to £299k - 14%. Similar flats have been selling at £320-350k since 2006.

This part of the area is one of the more sought after parts of Kingston/Surbiton, so I would imagine that the falls elsewhere could be even bigger.

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if houses are overpriced now then they were overpriced a couple of years ago. And if there were overpriced a couple of years ago i wouldn't have been able to afford to to buy into one.

i'm not saying that houses are not expensive at the moment. of course they are. but if people (ok, not all, but some) can afford to buy the house they want (and right now, a good many people still can) then whatever house they buy, that house is not overpriced for the people buying it... they saw it, they want it, they want it now, they can afford it.

i honestly think a lot of this is down to terminology: overpriced vs expensive. I am agreeing with you in your main sentiment because i do acknowledge that all houses right now are expensive, in relation to what's gone before in history. But not all houses are overpriced for many of those who want them.

People have lost sight of quality, its been on its way out for a long time.

To paraphrase someone famous "I'm rich, but not rich enough to buy cheap tat"

Yes I could easily afford your flat, but frankly it looks pretty dire, and simply don't see it as a worthwhile purchase - I'd rather buy a flash merc and rent a flat and still have change in my pocket.

But then again, most places look pretty godawful these days, so paying through the nose is pointless - even if a large sector of society seems willing to live in poverty to own property that used to be free...

I think the main problem with it is that all the people who were willing to join the pyramid scam have done so - the others just don't see it as a value proposition, and aren't playing the game the same way. They are treating it as a business - and they want reasonable value for money!

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Yes I could easily afford your flat, but frankly it looks pretty dire

lol, well, i really like it actually :) if it doesn't sell then i'm more than happy to stay on until the market picks up again!

one man's lunch is another man's poison etc

Edited by snuffle_uk
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People have lost sight of quality, its been on its way out for a long time.

To paraphrase someone famous "I'm rich, but not rich enough to buy cheap tat"

Yes I could easily afford your flat, but frankly it looks pretty dire, and simply don't see it as a worthwhile purchase - I'd rather buy a flash merc and rent a flat and still have change in my pocket.

Suggest you change your username to RudeB.

But you do sound like the flash-Merc type - all show-off and no manners.

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:D Not exactly what I meant, but fair enough.

What I mean is that as far as spending a third of a million goes, I would expect more than that for the money ;)

i'm not sure there are all that many ways to interpret 'it looks pretty dire', lol

but anyway, if you're expecting more than this for the money then i suggest you wait for prices to fall a lot, and come to terms with the fact that (under certain future circumstances) you may end up never getting onto the property ladder if you only ever want to pay what you perceive to be the 'right price' rather than the market rate for a property...

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i'm not sure there are all that many ways to interpret 'it looks pretty dire', lol

but anyway, if you're expecting more than this for the money then i suggest you wait for prices to fall a lot, and come to terms with the fact that (under certain future circumstances) you may end up never getting onto the property ladder if you only ever want to pay what you perceive to be the 'right price' rather than the market rate for a property...

RichB's comment may have been a bit direct, but he does not say where he comes from. For people from outside the SE, £300k+ would seem a massive amount of money for a flat of any kind.

As I saw mentioned in another thread earlier, the bricks and mortar is exactly the same in NE England as it is in the SE. I bet that you could buy a flat like yours for £100k in some areas of the north, and £300k would buy a large detached house.

I think your flat seems quite well priced for the area (although I do not know RP that well), not least because the 3rd bedroom and the garden may make it attractive to those who want a house but cannot make that much of a leap in price. You also seem realistic about accepting less than the asking price, which may be important if the market around there is tanking as badly as it is in Kingston/Surbiton.

Good luck with the sale.

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For people from outside the SE, £300k+ would seem a massive amount of money for a flat of any kind.

As I saw mentioned in another thread earlier, the bricks and mortar is exactly the same in NE England as it is in the SE. I bet that you could buy a flat like yours for £100k in some areas of the north, and £300k would buy a large detached house.

true, true. i can certainly imagine £300k going a lot further than a flat in many other parts of the country.

perhaps a good plan is to buy a flat like mine for 100k up north and then move it brick by brick to Raynes Park? ;) (only works for top floor flats, lol)

I think your flat seems quite well priced for the area (although I do not know RP that well), not least because the 3rd bedroom and the garden may make it attractive to those who want a house but cannot make that much of a leap in price. You also seem realistic about accepting less than the asking price, which may be important if the market around there is tanking as badly as it is in Kingston/Surbiton.

Good luck with the sale.

Thanks worried1. to be honest, at the moment the viewings we're getting are people who can afford houses but want to see my place as an option... in the end they end up going for the houses because that's what they really want, and after all they can afford them.

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Suggest you change your username to RudeB.

But you do sound like the flash-Merc type - all show-off and no manners.

Manners? As (s)he said, its just business. Disparaging comments about a property, and you respond with a personal attack. Pretty weak, but thats understandable I guess.

How is it that suddenly Raynes Park is immune to the 50% crash? Realisticaly how many people are still looking - and able - to pay that kind of money for a flat outside zone 1?

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How is it that suddenly Raynes Park is immune to the 50% crash? Realisticaly how many people are still looking - and able - to pay that kind of money for a flat outside zone 1?

More to the point why would someone want to pay £300k + for a flat in RAYNES PARK! (sorry but not my favourite area)

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There are seemingly still a handful of people looking for and able to pay more for houses that actually have less internal square footage

I for one would happily sacrifice a little space to not have someone living above or below me. In my old house I thought my neighbours were really loud, until I went to visit a friend's apartment. My friend's thought their upstairs neighbours were really quiet, but their upstairs neighbours going about their normal lives was much more intrusive than my incredibly loud next-door neighbours.

Also unless you are in a groundfloor flat your living-space doesn't lead directly to the garden, which is no good for letting small toddlers play outside while you are busy in the house. And with a flat you are either leasehold or shared freehold, whereas a house is generally freehold. It doesn't matter if your flat is slightly bigger than the houses, it is still worth less in most peoples eyes.

If your house has been on the market for the last month without offers it is over-priced. I sold my house recently and in less than 3 weeks I had 14 viewings and 4 offers, 1 from a cash-buyer which I accepted and sold for. If I hadn't gone under offer within the first month I would have knocked 5% off the asking each month until it sold. There are buyers out there who can buy, and if none of them are choosing to buy from you, your property is too expensive. It's that simple.

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I for one would happily sacrifice a little space to not have someone living above or below me. In my old house I thought my neighbours were really loud, until I went to visit a friend's apartment. My friend's thought their upstairs neighbours were really quiet, but their upstairs neighbours going about their normal lives was much more intrusive than my incredibly loud next-door neighbours.

this, of course, depends on the people who live above or below you. Personally, we've never heard a whisper from the people who live below. But i take your point and others do share your opinion because we have had people who have looked elsewhere for this reason.

Also unless you are in a groundfloor flat your living-space doesn't lead directly to the garden, which is no good for letting small toddlers play outside while you are busy in the house.

true on the garden point. agian, we've had people who have looked elsewhere for this reason.

It doesn't matter if your flat is slightly bigger than the houses, it is still worth less in most peoples eyes.

which is why its got a lower asking price!

If your house has been on the market for the last month without offers it is over-priced. I sold my house recently and in less than 3 weeks I had 14 viewings and 4 offers, 1 from a cash-buyer which I accepted and sold for. If I hadn't gone under offer within the first month I would have knocked 5% off the asking each month until it sold. There are buyers out there who can buy, and if none of them are choosing to buy from you, your property is too expensive. It's that simple.

i'd say its more a case that the people who can buy are those who actually have more than my flat is priced at in their pockets and choose to spend to their limits, e.g. buying entire houses. my opinion is that there is a shortage of people with much less to spend, to whom my flat would be a top option and an improvement on the 2 bed flats or houses miles away from public transport that they'd been looking at. i think that these are the people who are having trouble accessing finance, but if eventually these folks are able to come into the market (not guaranteed, i know), i think i'll see much more interest in my flat. it'll be more of a 'value proposition' for these types of people.

incidentally, we did have one offer very early on which was miles below the asking price (at the time) which we rejected... we're kicking ourselves now because it was at a level which we would happily accept now :(

Edited by snuffle_uk
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