It's The Middle Classes, Doctors And Accountants...

[English Rose]

"Companies can't 'tie you in' using training or relocation.

You just leave, don't pay 'em and if they give you a bad reference you can sue them for loss of earnings very easily (Just ask for a mate in a different co to ask them for a reference)".

Just wanted to point out that if they wanted to and the amount at stake was worth their while, the company could come after you legally for the money. And as someone's pointed out already, most places will stop the money from your final salary.

Best bet if you find yourself in this situation is to claim that the job isn't what you were sold and agree to have the amount struck from the record as part of your deal re leaving the company.

Rachel

[Guest Skint Academic]

Your car is to be taken away and replaced with a five year old but reliable Skoda or similar.

Honestly, genuinely couldn't care less about that?

I'd be over the bloody moon! Although I'm probably not the kind of person that this question is aimed at. A 5 year Skoda is waaaay better than an S reg Proton Persona with 90K miles, the driver's window wedged up with a block of wood, central locking that has a mind of its own, an exhaust that sounds like a boy racer's as we haven't replaced it. This is a vast improvement on the state of the car before the MOT though!

And you know what, I actually enjoy having a car like this when everyone else drives chelsea tractors and sports cars. When 4x4's think they can bully you off the road, when you don't give in they suddenly remember that their precious 50 grand reproductive organ substitute costs way more than the pile of crap that could happily be left at the side of the road and that maybe they should give way instead.

[Guest anorthosite]

Nice to see status coming into the debate. Because I've noticed posters here drooling over CARS

'Status' leads neatly into our being obsessed with IMAGE.

Posters - If you don't think you are image-conscious, consider the following.

Your car is to be taken away and replaced with a five year old but reliable Skoda or similar.

Honestly, genuinely couldn't care less about that?

Don't bother with the 'I must have a BMWAudi/Saab because I cover 700 miles a week' arguments, or the 'I really admire the engineering..' guff.

It's Image under consideration.

Would you honestly be happy with the Skoda?

And if not, exactly why not?

What do you really hope/think your car says about you?

It'd have to be a small one with a dodgy paint job that scared me every time I tried to start it but when push comes to shove it never lets me down.

Otherwise I'd be making a profit on this deal. Where do I sign up?

[heather5]

"Companies can't 'tie you in' using training or relocation.

You just leave, don't pay 'em and if they give you a bad reference you can sue them for loss of earnings very easily (Just ask for a mate in a different co to ask them for a reference)".

Just wanted to point out that if they wanted to and the amount at stake was worth their while, the company could come after you legally for the money. And as someone's pointed out already, most places will stop the money from your final salary.

Best bet if you find yourself in this situation is to claim that the job isn't what you were sold and agree to have the amount struck from the record as part of your deal re leaving the company.

Rachel"

Intersting this has come up on this post - particularly relating to IT training.

I'm working for local government - and originally they had a policy that said anyone who received over £3000 for a course within a 6 year period would have to pay back for courses on a sliding scale. Courses then were MSc, BA's etc.

Now within IT - it got brought in that anyone put on a course of £1500 + within a 1 year period would have to pay the whole amount back if they left within 18 months.

Since most IT courses are £1500 for 3-5 days - it meant that anyone lucky enough to even get that training (and it is hard!!) was tied in.

Then management realised that since most IT courses were £1500 - and they needed to constantly retrain staff because they couldn't get the skills in the first place - this was a good way to tie people in - so now ANY TRAINING YOU HAVE - if you leave within 6 months - you have to pay back - even if it's forced on you!

Now we are about to go VMWARE on the whole of our environment - and need training - one course is £2000+ and we are having to sign contracts saying we'll pay back if we leave within a year. But in order to bring this technology in - we have to be trained (although some of us have self-trained ourself which is why it's being brought in anyways).

ALL of us were recruited for other skills - not VMWARE - but are being forced to take the training - and tie ourselves in - we're trying a rebellion - i.e. refusing to attend the course - but have been told if we don't - we're putting our jobs at risk and will have to be considered for "further action" in terms of displinary.

Anyone else got experience of this or advice to offer - particularly if you have EU regs in mind?

By the way - none of us have any grips about paying for our courses (as it's Council money in indirectly OUR money) if we failed to give benefit - but since most of us have studied in our time at home to get the project off the ground - it seems absurd we're being forced to attend courses - and then tie ourselves in.

It's not that we want to jump ship with new skills - it's just the whole atmosphere which seems wrong.

But judging from a few posts here - this is the norm in the business world.

Thanks.

Thanks.

[newbonic]

Nice to see status coming into the debate. Because I've noticed posters here drooling over CARS

'Status' leads neatly into our being obsessed with IMAGE.

Posters - If you don't think you are image-conscious, consider the following.

Your car is to be taken away and replaced with a five year old but reliable Skoda or similar.

Honestly, genuinely couldn't care less about that?

Don't bother with the 'I must have a BMWAudi/Saab because I cover 700 miles a week' arguments, or the 'I really admire the engineering..' guff.

It's Image under consideration.

Would you honestly be happy with the Skoda?

And if not, exactly why not?

What do you really hope/think your car says about you?

I had this choice a couple of years ago. I tried to buy a Skoda (2 - 3 year old diesel), but their desirability has gone up so much that you just can't pick 'em up dirt cheap anymore. So I bought a new Focus diesel (does >50mpg) for 11k cash (they were doing a really good deal at the time).

I eliminated BMW/Audi/SAAB early on in the process because I would have felt like a total mug in handing over a voluntary £5k vig for a badge.

I don't really care what total strangers on a motorway or A road think of my 'image', and would much rather have the 5k vig in an ISA.

I know someone who MEWED to the tune of 20K to buy a 2 y.o. V6 jag. Obviously it must make him feel great behind its wheel, but I'd be weeping at the depreciation and fuel bills.

(edit for typo)

Edited May 18, 2008 by newp

[Lone_Twin]

"Companies can't 'tie you in' using training or

Intersting this has come up on this post - particularly relating to IT training.

I'm working for local government - and originally they had a policy that said anyone who received over £3000 for a course within a 6 year period would have to pay back for courses on a sliding scale. Courses then were MSc, BA's etc.

Now within IT - it got brought in that anyone put on a course of £1500 + within a 1 year period would have to pay the whole amount back if they left within 18 months.

Since most IT courses are £1500 for 3-5 days - it meant that anyone lucky enough to even get that training (and it is hard!!) was tied in.

Then management realised that since most IT courses were £1500 - and they needed to constantly retrain staff because they couldn't get the skills in the first place - this was a good way to tie people in - so now ANY TRAINING YOU HAVE - if you leave within 6 months - you have to pay back - even if it's forced on you!

Now we are about to go VMWARE on the whole of our environment - and need training - one course is £2000+ and we are having to sign contracts saying we'll pay back if we leave within a year. But in order to bring this technology in - we have to be trained (although some of us have self-trained ourself which is why it's being brought in anyways).

ALL of us were recruited for other skills - not VMWARE - but are being forced to take the training - and tie ourselves in - we're trying a rebellion - i.e. refusing to attend the course - but have been told if we don't - we're putting our jobs at risk and will have to be considered for "further action" in terms of displinary.

Anyone else got experience of this or advice to offer - particularly if you have EU regs in mind?

By the way - none of us have any grips about paying for our courses (as it's Council money in indirectly OUR money) if we failed to give benefit - but since most of us have studied in our time at home to get the project off the ground - it seems absurd we're being forced to attend courses - and then tie ourselves in.

It's not that we want to jump ship with new skills - it's just the whole atmosphere which seems wrong.

But judging from a few posts here - this is the norm in the business world.

Thanks.

Thanks.

As a moderate user/admin of VM ware its not really training course material in my exp.

I'm surprised they want to send all of you not just a couple of key people who can help

out the rest. Of course you may have a massively complex environment and I'm talking

out of my hat.

.

ST

Edited May 18, 2008 by Super Ted

[The Masked Tulip]

The Daily Mail has picked up on this for today's edition

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...d=1770&ct=5

[MarkG]

I tried to buy a Skoda (2 - 3 year old diesel), but their desirability has gone up so much that you just can't pick 'em up dirt cheap anymore.

The new Skodas actually look pretty nice; aren't they basically VWs in drag these days?

Of course the old ones could be fun if you didn't mind the engines falling out now and again.

Edited May 19, 2008 by MarkG

[Guest Bart of Darkness]

Posters - If you don't think you are image-conscious, consider the following.

Your car is to be taken away and replaced with a five year old but reliable Skoda or similar.

Honestly, genuinely couldn't care less about that?

Hmmmm... interesting. In my teens (before driving a car became impossible for me) I used to drool over the latest "hot hatches" and the like.

The thing is though, I hate being the centre of any kind of attention, so while low slung sports cars and more esoteric stuff like Morgans and the Caterham 7 would definitely be the sort of cars I'd want to be driving, the Skoda would probably be the better car for me to drive, especially round where I live!

[ingermany]

That debt is probably equivalent to 2-3 years net income based on average earnings which will take a lot of time to clear off if wages stay constant alongside even mild increases in prices. Very worrying.

I think that £1.4 trillion is just slightly more than a year's GDP for the UK. In addition I think that the UK personal debt + national debt stands at about £11 trillion according to figures in another recent thread.

A post some months back attempted to visualise this debt as actual money. A stack of £50 notes making £1million would stand about 80" high. The equivalent height of £1 trillion would be just over 1260 miles high - making the current UK personal debt of £1.4 trillion stand at about 1765 miles high.

It's difficult to get to grips with the magnitude of it all.

Very worrying is an understatement. Especially as it seems that the government/taxpayer is ultimately going to take responsibility for wiping out the personal debt mountain. I thought the Rock nationalisation and the 50 billion bail-out was outrageous, but if these figures are realistic, it is just the tip of the iceberg.

Edited May 19, 2008 by ingermany

[Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable]

As a moderate user/admin of VM ware its not really training course material in my exp.

I'm surprised they want to send all of you not just a couple of key people who can help

out the rest. Of course you may have a massively complex environment and I'm talking

out of my hat.

.

ST

Unless you're looking at cross virtual machine messaging for VMWare server or something.

[winkie]

Nice to see status coming into the debate. Because I've noticed posters here drooling over CARS

'Status' leads neatly into our being obsessed with IMAGE.

Posters - If you don't think you are image-conscious, consider the following.

Your car is to be taken away and replaced with a five year old but reliable Skoda or similar.

Honestly, genuinely couldn't care less about that?

Don't bother with the 'I must have a BMWAudi/Saab because I cover 700 miles a week' arguments, or the 'I really admire the engineering..' guff.

It's Image under consideration.

Would you honestly be happy with the Skoda?

And if not, exactly why not?

What do you really hope/think your car says about you?

I hope my old 9 year old car that does over 50 miles to gallon and has many dents and scratches, costs £300 pa insurance with no excess and a no claims protector, can be parked in most tight parking spots, shows others I am free, free of debt, free of worry and free to get from A to B in an economical way.

Let them laugh.