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Anti-english Attacks Kick-off In Pembrokeshire And Powys, Wales


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Pride is healthy in any community or country. It means greater social cohesion. People have something to work for other than themselves.

Exactly. If you're a high-flyer with a good career, opportunities, the cash to indulge your interests, it's easy to dismiss nationalism. You don't need it, you live life through yourself and your immediate family and acquaintances.

If you live on a crap estate or work in a wage slave job, a lot of your life is lived through your tribe - whether your tribe is the Scots, the Muslims, the Toon army, whatever. It's an ultimately healthier thing than individualism IMO. I've lived in a wealthy area - South Oxon - it seemed to me that people simply didn't like each other that much. Their neighbours just seemed to be targets to tilt at, in terms of having a newer car, neater lawn, brighter kid....more expensive house.

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....France might drag their feet, but fear of Basque or Breton emulation would be balanced by the opportunity to weaken "English" influence in the EU - no small pleasure for the French, you'd think.

I disagree with you Leodhasach. The absolute excision of Scottish influence in British Politics means a real enhanced role for that rump in the EU, in particular a greatly enhanced role for the English (who under this government are embarressingly under-represented). Surely as a Scot you should be more alarmed that the considerable Scottish influence in Europe via the New Labour Government would disappear overnight?

It is an amusing notion that England/Wales/NI will struggle to cope without the Scots. This might be correct yet you should really worry that a significant population of chippy Scots may decide their future whilst hostage to a vindictive streak. They really should simply concentrate on voting with full focus on their own interests as a referendum is coming and soon. Independence may well be great, but they must prepare the ground for all the changes.

From an English perspective I am hopeful that Scottish independence will see a move away from our introspective Caledonian dominated/obsessed media to a more continentally curious one. France, Belgium, Holland and Germany are all a lot closer to me than the Borders and it is high time we really got to know each other.

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When nationalists talk about what is best for their country, they generally mean those countrymen that are white, christian and have the right accent.

Does your average Scottish or Welsh nationalist really give a toss about a Pakistani that's been living in Glasgow or Swansea for the last ten years, that pays his taxes and sends his kids to school there? I doubt it.

I doubt it too; ten years is too short a time. With such different cultures, achieving a 'one of us' level of integration is more likely to happen with the second (born here) generation of immigrants, provided there's good will on both sides. Multiculturalism inevitably hinders this. And if the locals are racist or the immigrants isolationist, then it might never happen.

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No you have just tried to invade and conquer Wales throughout the middle ages and suppressed us since 1535 (I think) under English law, so no anti scottish or anti welsh feelings from the english then ;) . We have long memories Grrrr. It pathetic I agree, as a nation we need to adapt to the new world, move on, promote Wales as tourist destination further, and encourage the English to visit our beautiful country so we can take all your money and charge you to visit the castles that you lot built! ;)

Right back in the new millenieum, I have often found that English people who do move to Wales appreciate the place more than the local Welsh. I think you will find that the politicians and the older generations are much more anti-english than us young pups, we are proud of our heritage, our identity and our country, therefore we want to show it off rather than keep it all for ourselves. I see this in Scotland also.

The second home thing is a huge problem but I don;t like the argument being toted as an anti-english agenda. Love the English, just keep those knobber Football hooligans to yourselves and send your rigby team our way for a whippin' anytime! :P

in the same way i blame the romans.

now come on, relax. its an imaginary border on a map.

it really makes no difference.

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This is a fascinating debate. In practice I think it's unlikely that Scotland would be prevented from joining. I can see that the French could have a problem and I bet they're praying they never have to face up to this issue, but for big chunks of territory to start falling away from the EU like that wouldn't be acceptable to those running the European project IMO (they would have phrases like 'the high water mark of European integration' in their minds).

If Scotland were excluded, then I can see Scots who voted 'no' being mightily peeved at being stripped of their EU citizenship, particularly the ones working abroad elsewhere in Europe. It seems to me that this issue would have to be resolved before any referendum.

Scotland isn't a large chunk of the EU. They have people lining up at teh door to Join. Ukraine, Turkey even Serbia are starting to look the EU's way.

Msot ot the problems at the moment is trying to Run what they have.

I have no doubt that eventually they will get EU memebership. But they won't get anything liek the deal tehy have at the moment. I also worry about teh flight of investment during the transition period.

This is only me being selfish as if there is independence it will make a lot of work fow me moving some of the systems south and offices south of the border as per our contigency plans.

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in the same way i blame the romans.

now come on, relax. its an imaginary border on a map.

it really makes no difference.

well it does now...if you pay for prescriptions (free prescriptions for all in Wales), or child goes to primary school (no SATS or league tables in Wales), or if you are getting on a bit (Free bus passes)

relatively minor things at the moment I agree...but it is increasing the tension a bit along the borders...remember the village in Cheshire that voted to become Welsh.

Your broader point is right though...it should make no difference, but with govts in Cardiff and Edinburgh it does make a difference which side of the border you are on.

If UK gov can offload all benefits fiscal responsibility for Wales to Cardiff from London then Wales is toast

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Guest Skint Academic
I doubt it too; ten years is too short a time. With such different cultures, achieving a 'one of us' level of integration is more likely to happen with the second (born here) generation of immigrants, provided there's good will on both sides. Multiculturalism inevitably hinders this. And if the locals are racist or the immigrants isolationist, then it might never happen.

Actually it's used to be the first generation of immigrants that tried to integrate. The problems have come with the second generation who were born in this country and don't know if they are British or their parent's original nationality. A lot of them, taking British nationality for granted and trying to find their own identity, are embracing their original nationality and religion with more zeal than their parents ever did before they emigrated.

Of course it's different now as the new immigrants are coming in in such numbers that they don't have to bother integrating if they don't want to.

It's nice to see immigrants appreciating the country that they come to even if it's not a country I appreciate. For example, the surgeon who operated on my eye a few weeks ago had an Indian accent yet always wore a Union Jack bow tie. There are plenty of other examples too. If I get to emigrate to Germany then the first thing I shall do when I start work is to place my desktop German flag by the keyboard (last flown during the world cup).

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If I get to emigrate to Germany then the first thing I shall do when I start work is to place my desktop German flag by the keyboard (last flown during the world cup).

I should be prepared for some interesting comments, then, SA. Apart from at political occasions, sporting events and far-right marches, you very rarely see the German flag flown here.

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Guest Skint Academic
I should be prepared for some interesting comments, then, SA. Apart from at political occasions, sporting events and far-right marches, you very rarely see the German flag flown here.

OK, maybe I won't then! Thanks for the tip.

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In case you change your mind, make sure it's not an...ahem...'vintage' German flag. ;)

True :)

I always have odd things on my desk. I used to have a teddy bear in bondage gear handcuffed to my desk lamp.

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True :)

I always have odd things on my desk. I used to have a teddy bear in bondage gear handcuffed to my desk lamp.

That, on the other hand, sounds just fine. Bring him with you and you should integrate perfectly, especially if you were thinking of moving to Berlin ;)

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Actually it's used to be the first generation of immigrants that tried to integrate. The problems have come with the second generation who were born in this country and don't know if they are British or their parent's original nationality. A lot of them, taking British nationality for granted and trying to find their own identity, are embracing their original nationality and religion with more zeal than their parents ever did before they emigrated.

That's why I made the caveat that there has to be willingness on both sides. Immigrants who form physical and cultural ghettoes, and host communities that are full of suspicion and resentment, don't make for integration. In any case, integration is not the policy being pursued; you can either have integration or multiculturalism IMO, but you can't have both.

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well it does now...if you pay for prescriptions (free prescriptions for all in Wales), or child goes to primary school (no SATS or league tables in Wales), or if you are getting on a bit (Free bus passes)

relatively minor things at the moment I agree...but it is increasing the tension a bit along the borders...remember the village in Cheshire that voted to become Welsh.

Your broader point is right though...it should make no difference, but with govts in Cardiff and Edinburgh it does make a difference which side of the border you are on.

If UK gov can offload all benefits fiscal responsibility for Wales to Cardiff from London then Wales is toast

i suppose everytime theres an admin change to either side.

the tension increases. i really dont see the point.

i think the best thing to do is stop the seperate football teams and amalgamate into britain fc. not england etc.

then when it goes wrong as usual we can blame it on poor on goal attacks from ian rush and ryan giggs.

but seriously. we need a national team.

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but seriously. we need a national team.

Seriously, we don't.

It will never happen in a million years.

Can you imagine the uproar from the Scots if they no longer had a Scottish team and there were only English players in the British team?

Nor do I see any need for a British team.

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Want a second home and price out locals and render entire parishes winter ghost towns?

Fine, then you should be heavily taxed for the privilege. An empty home supplement for example.

It’s disgusting that on a supposed crowed island, that individuals can own three or four homes all over the country that are empty for 95% of the time. The area(s) should be adequately compensated for this. The tax could then be used to help young families and local economies.

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We have a national team. Several of them in fact. Scotland, England, Wales, etc.

Exactly. The English can then support every one of the above and be happy if they win. The rest can support anyone playing England and be happy if they lose. It works well. ;)

Bless our cultural differences.....

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Exactly. The English can then support every one of the above and be happy if they win. The rest can support anyone playing England and be happy if they lose. It works well. ;)

We are talking about curling aren't we ... ? :unsure:

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Exactly. The English can then support every one of the above and be happy if they win. The rest can support anyone playing England and be happy if they lose. It works well. ;)

Bless our cultural differences.....

I've rarely known the English to support Wales in sport. Just read Simon Barnes or Jeremy Clarkson as examples.

My experience is that English tend to cheer for any team playing against Wales.

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Can you imagine the uproar from the Scots if they no longer had a Scottish team and there were only English players in the British team?

The day after it happens is the day Scotland goes independent. You can ridicule us, take our oil revenues, use us as a testing ground for unpopular taxes, keep your nuclear subs in our lochs, and we'll sit back, whinge and do nothing about it. Piss on us from a great height and we'll look up and open our mouths. But take away our football team?

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I think it would be a far more effective campaign if they wrote the slogans in English... The first rule of war, know your enemy. In this case the English, as a whole, can't speak or read a bleeding word of Welsh. I amost crashed the car once trying to work out what "ARAF" meant, it was spelt in big white letters right across the middle of the road. :blink:

ARAF means SLOW.

The clue is that SLOW is written in large white letters

beside the word ARAF.

(No, I'm not Welsh)

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