Methinkshe Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Well I don't think the introduction of new technology is what this strike is about...unless the government are planning on introducing robot teachers. And where's the blackmail. They're striking for god's sake. Why do you think you get to work less than 40 hours a week? It ain't coz those nice kind employers suddenly felt generous one day. You have totally misunderstood my former post and all those previous. Just trawl back through this thread and you will understand. Meanwhile I can only assume you've jumped midway into a debate and got the wrong end of the stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welcome to the mad house Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 I'm not a teacher, sadly. I work in a school and am allowed to join the teaching union because of the job I do. Get 2/3 of the salary and less than half of the holidays McCrone's made a big difference up here so there is definitely less for teachers in Scotland to complain about though. Indeed cause my young lady had to take a pay cut to come down. So she has noticed the difference a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Dear Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 I am disgusted with the way consecutive governments and private companies have fleeced all our pensions, but I am suprised at the vitriol spouted against teachers. I suppose it is a job where everyone has been to school and then think they know how to do it because they have seen someone else perform the role. As far as I am aware, nobody is saying "lazy oil refiners" how dare they strike; shift work, no commitments after the bell goes etc etc. It is all about the cost of housing- it is too expensive. As others have said- HPC is the long term answer for the average worker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claireinspain Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 who cares what you're doing. You are incredibly irritating What a ridiculous post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claireinspain Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Methinks that you've got an axe to grind. I'm sorry that you left school without basic skills.You can do adult courses, you know! Is that a picture of you crying in your avatar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huw Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 We could avoid a race to the bottom by increasing our productivity and the value-add activities in the economy - you're assuming that declining productivity is irreversible. Rather, I'm assuming that the same productivity gains are available to every competitor willing to invest in them -- and noting that our record of such investment is worse than most. It comes back to the underlying point that we are addicted to consumption to the detriment of production/investment. Either way, I'm not the one who needs a lecture on economics - teachers do. Tell them about rebalancing consumption against productivity and see their eyes glaze over and reiterate "but we do a really hard job, you just hate teachers" etc - this is my whole point: the private sector is being made to bear the brunt of the adjustments in the UK economy in terms of globabl productivity and competitiveness. We should face up to this and protect our standard of living by increasing productivity and value-add to the world economy instead of ignoring the problems and just adding to the tax burden and public debt (further diluting competitiveness) by handing out pay rises in the public sector. Agreed, the 'debate' I referred to in my previous post is going to be about where the pain gets allocated. I think it's early days yet, and most people (including most teachers) have not cottoned on that painful adjustments need to be made across society, not just in the public or private sectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosh Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Move to Spain near to a beach and your wish will come true.And I'm not inside. I'm on my patio enjoying a leisurely lunch with my laptop by my side and the sun shining. No stress at all! Also you also need to brush up on your basic numeracy skills. Post 139 was posted at 11.39am. I came back and posted post 177 at 2.11pm (all Spanish time). Bit more than your "seven minutes" wouldn't you say? Oh!! Claire You were lurking all the time, probably surveying the fruits of your nasty posts. I was watching with intrigue waiting for another of your acidic posts. Are you sure you were not sent home from work and ordered to attend Anger Management classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
right_freds_dead Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Yes, that's what most inner city comps are like. No drugs, knives, assaults.What's it like living in 'The Beano'? its ok. but you get caned a lot. luckily, i put a thick book behind my pants. arf arf... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claireinspain Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Oh!! Claire You were lurking all the time, probably surveying the fruits of your nasty posts. I was watching with intrigue waiting for another of your acidic posts. Are you sure you were not sent home from work and ordered to attend Anger Management classes. How lovely of you to be waiting for my next post. If I'd have known I would have come back from the beach sooner! I would love to chat but have a tennis lesson at 5.15pm and don't want to be late. Then I'm having some good friends around for a meal. We will certainly raise a glass to Blighty and what is left of the British education system! It's been a lot of fun today. Hasta mañana, toodlepip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosh Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 How lovely of you to be waiting for my next post. If I'd have known I would have come back from the beach sooner!I would love to chat but have a tennis lesson at 5.15pm and don't want to be late. Then I'm having some good friends around for a meal. We will certainly raise a glass to Blighty and what is left of the British education system! It's been a lot of fun today. Hasta mañana, toodlepip! Cheers for the picture Claire, easy on the old cigars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougless Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Average wage today is £34K. So either she was newly qualified, you are talking quite a few years ago or she wasn't declaring her full income to you! Just to make it clear what teachers earn: http://www.tda.gov.uk/Recruit/lifeasateach...laryscales.aspx They are the basic rates paid. Teachers who go on courses to learn "advanced skills" earn more. You also get extra money for taking on "additional responsibilities". Plus fantastic pension and holidays. And in return what do we get? Sorry Claireinspain but you are wrong. Pay levels in Colleges are often way behind the Primary/Secondary sector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sourman Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 I can scarcely believe that I'm saying this, but I agree!All of my life I have been anti-union and anti the Scargill type of disruption of the 1970s. In those days it was obvious that inefficient coal mines, for instance, and services like pre-privatisation BT, were holding back technological advancement and that striking workers were just Luddites. Now, however, things have changed. We have amoral, probably immoral, capitalism. We have a government that is hell-bent on devaluing the currency through inflation. In many ways I hate to say it, because it goes against everything I have heretofore believed, but I think it is time that the work place was re-unionised. I think more and more people are thinking the same thing. I'm not old by any means but even in my working life things have gone so bad so quickly it's hard getting through to younger people who have just joined the workforce, how much better things were before when we had some sort of union support to fight for thr rights of working men and women. Employers have gotten away with murder the past 15 years or so, safety standards have lapsed and work practices such as actually having a "lunch hour" an actual whole hour away from work that is! have long since disappeared. This together with the attitude that wages "never go up", has left the British workforce the most overworked and unhappiest in Europe. Something has to change it really does and I agree that 70's style unions are a thing of the past, but there has to be somewhere in the middle ground for a modern day union. So good for the teachers for having the balls to stand up and be counted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SqueezePlay Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 I think more and more people are thinking the same thing. I'm not old by any means but even in my working life things have gone so bad so quickly it's hard getting through to younger people who have just joined the workforce, how much better things were before when we had some sort of union support to fight for thr rights of working men and women. Employers have gotten away with murder the past 15 years or so, safety standards have lapsed and work practices such as actually having a "lunch hour" an actual whole hour away from work that is! have long since disappeared. This together with the attitude that wages "never go up", has left the British workforce the most overworked and unhappiest in Europe.Something has to change it really does and I agree that 70's style unions are a thing of the past, but there has to be somewhere in the middle ground for a modern day union. So good for the teachers for having the balls to stand up and be counted! The 3 year pay deal that they are striking about is 2.54% in the first year and then 2 years at 2.3% - so increment after 3 years is 7.3%. With all that has been said on this forum about inflation in food, fuel and energy costs any fool can see that 7.3% after 3 years represents a massive pay cut in real terms. So good for the NUT standing up about corrupt government statistics, which organisation will be next to wake up and smell the coffee and realise that their pay deals will be overtaken by inflation. And with back-down-Brown in charge why should people be afraid of demanding more, it worked for the non-DOMs, the capital gain, the 10p tax rates brigade - so why not the unions. tootle-pip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry AKA Pod Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 It's the school administrators/office staff that deserve a pay rise. Quite shocking how low their pay is, yet it is these fantastic ladies (on the whole) that keep the schools running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AuntJess Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Hmm. Came along to see the fun. I hear from other posters, that teachers are said to have an easy life and wonderful pay. Well I guess if you are a road sweeper they will seem like that, but no one with a similar academic qual. ( Hons degree plus PGCE) would like to get teachers pay, plus their REAL hours( not the hours the little nay-sayers reckon they have) plus their ghastly working conditions.. PLUS their level of responsibility. When I taught 6th form - 20 years ago - I worked a 60 hour week for 11K. My students pass rate - at A level - was between 90 - 100% on grades A-C. That's why they got good grades...MY commitment! I make no doubt that teachers today are still putting their all into training kids who have been reared by appalling parents in some cases - whingers and free-loaders - something like I reckon a few on here are. Kids can be taught easily,when they have had decent parents. NO teacher should be expected to handle - let alone teach - feral kids.That is for the police and the " caring" services to do their stuff and render them fit to mix with other humans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garry AKA Pod Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Hmm. Came along to see the fun. I hear from other posters, that teachers are said to have an easy life and wonderful pay. Well I guess if you are a road sweeper they will seem like that, but no one with a similar academic qual. ( Hons degree plus PGCE) would like to get teachers pay, plus their REAL hours( not the hours the little nay-sayers reckon they have) plus their ghastly working conditions.. PLUS their level of responsibility.When I taught 6th form - 20 years ago - I worked a 60 hour week for 11K. My students pass rate - at A level - was between 90 - 100% on grades A-C. That's why they got good grades...MY commitment! I make no doubt that teachers today are still putting their all into training kids who have been reared by appalling parents in some cases - whingers and free-loaders - something like I reckon a few on here are. Kids can be taught easily,when they have had decent parents. NO teacher should be expected to handle - let alone teach - feral kids.That is for the police and the " caring" services to do their stuff and render them fit to mix with other humans. How dare you speak from experience AuntJess? Sorry, I mean Miss AuntJess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pioneer31 Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 How lovely of you to be waiting for my next post. If I'd have known I would have come back from the beach sooner!I would love to chat but have a tennis lesson at 5.15pm and don't want to be late. Then I'm having some good friends around for a meal. We will certainly raise a glass to Blighty and what is left of the British education system! It's been a lot of fun today. Hasta mañana, toodlepip! We are SOOO alike, you and me! Whenever I go to Spain, the first thing I do is whip the laptop out and go on HPC! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pioneer31 Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 How lovely of you to be waiting for my next post. If I'd have known I would have come back from the beach sooner!I would love to chat but have a tennis lesson at 5.15pm and don't want to be late. Then I'm having some good friends around for a meal. We will certainly raise a glass to Blighty and what is left of the British education system! It's been a lot of fun today. Hasta mañana, toodlepip! Playing tennis whilst off work, sick? Hmmm, who's the waste of money now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pioneer31 Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 I didn't say I was a teacher. I said I work in a school, and I teach in collaboration with teachers. I said I didn't want to debate about the 'level' I teach. If it is relevant my brother's been a teacher since I was 7. I'd say working in a school for 15 years gives me more relevant knowledge than the child of teachers who thinks that they lecture for hours at a time, but there you go. I don't think they lecture for hours at a time, my father did (stupid money saving and crap timetable management of his college). It isn't the norm, granted but 1 hour lectures are still common, so whether a child can concentrate for more than 2 minutes is immaterial. I still say that the vast majority of posters on here wouldn't last 5 minutes as a teacher. and why don't you want to talk about the level you teach, what are you hiding. I also don't see how you know any more about teaching than I do. You certainly have some peculiar opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pioneer31 Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Kids are not taught for free. No wonder teachers and their spouses think money grows on trees! Well, you do. Don't forget to hobble when go to collect your giro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Far Out Bear Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 (edited) Why don't the poor hard done to teachers who think the private sector has it easy, and the poor hard done to private workers who believe the teachers have it easy, leave their respective trades and retrain. All this moaning makes absolutely no sense to me. PS There is some truth in public sector wages fuelling inflation - but the way the government presents this is deliberately misleading. You see, the higher the governments costs, the greater the budget deficit (which is simply that part of its budget that exceeds its revenues, and therefore must be monetised - ie, inflated) The government, when explaining the situation, naturally, always leaves out the part about monetising its deficit. Teachers today are little more than glorified baby sitters anyway. It is not their fault that there are no real teaching jobs. It is simply a because there is no actual education industry itself (just a government public monopoly). The same is true of nhs. Privatisation is the eventual result as the public version fails and continues to deteriate. Edited April 24, 2008 by Far Out Bear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplemonkey Posted April 24, 2008 Author Share Posted April 24, 2008 well glad to see I touched a nerve last night with the post. what makes me laugh is the way people are bashing teachers for having an easy life on good pay. got to say there are probably much harder workers out there on less wages thats for sure, nurses, care home workers, car washes etc.... but when you compare the teachers wanting an inflation pay rise against the home owners who have been MEWing there homes for wage suppliments over the last 5 years, and are now moaning about interest rates being unfair you really have to see that teachers do have a point, and they are in a very public role to make that view apparent to a lot of people. if the government would just let the house prices drop, and stop wasting tax payers money on bail outs, then maybe there'd be fewer strikes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minos Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 I hope Mr Balls has the balls to tell them to f*ck right off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FedupTeddiBear Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Average wage today is £34K. So either she was newly qualified, you are talking quite a few years ago or she wasn't declaring her full income to you! Just to make it clear what teachers earn: http://www.tda.gov.uk/Recruit/lifeasateach...laryscales.aspx They are the basic rates paid. Teachers who go on courses to learn "advanced skills" earn more. You also get extra money for taking on "additional responsibilities". Plus fantastic pension and holidays. And in return what do we get? Please supply a link showing where this figure comes from. The link you have provided shows the range of incomes possible for those working in education but does not give an average. The majority of teachers are on the main pay scale, with a very small minority working as advanced skills teachers or in leadership. Perhaps the median would be a more suitable measure as a result of the large range with such a small minority at the top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SqueezePlay Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 well glad to see I touched a nerve last night with the post.what makes me laugh is the way people are bashing teachers for having an easy life on good pay. got to say there are probably much harder workers out there on less wages thats for sure, nurses, care home workers, car washes etc.... but when you compare the teachers wanting an inflation pay rise against the home owners who have been MEWing there homes for wage suppliments over the last 5 years, and are now moaning about interest rates being unfair you really have to see that teachers do have a point, and they are in a very public role to make that view apparent to a lot of people. if the government would just let the house prices drop, and stop wasting tax payers money on bail outs, then maybe there'd be fewer strikes? Exactly, the inflation which has provoked the teachers to strike is the direct consequence of the bail out of the bankers by interest rates cuts. So public sector workers are standing up for us all against the greed of some sectors of the private sector and corrupt government statistics. Will anybody in the private sector do anything for the pensionners when they get shafted by RPI linked rises in their pensions ? Tootle pip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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