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My Work Colleages Are Scared


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Also, 'staff restuarant' sounds like you work in a corporation. Corporate workers are the worst for parroting the party line I find.

I worked for Lloyds TSB's General Insurance Division in Newport once. It was the first time I'd worked for a bank.

It's what I'd imagine working for the Freemason's would be like. Talk about towing the party line. It felt like they had an all consuming culture, something a bit Stepford Wives-like, one that has an air of self-entitlement - to take control your life; not simply coming to work each day to do your contractual work, but joining in with this and that the other - and it felt as though you were shunned if you wanted you own independence to lead your own life and be your own self, a private individual.

I left after seven months, increasing my salary by 40% in the process.

Edited by nmarks
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:ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:

I am right now listening to two colleagues (late 40's) talking out their mortgages. Both well qualified, and in good middle management positions. They both just agreed that their monthly mortgage payments are HALF their take home salary!

:blink::blink:

If I had still been in debt in my late forties I would have considered myself a failure. What the hell is the matter with people.

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My rent is half the equity loss suffered by home-owners of similar properties - over the past 6 months.

Enough said.

Suppose dpends how much you pay in rent. My mortgage is 1200 a month.... to rent the sme 5 bed place around here would cost me 1500 -2000. Makes no sense, I pay less by buying. But I may just be the lucky one.

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how's this for a tactic. i hate my job, dislike most of my colleagues and would be quite apathetic to me being completely hated by them

I often start preaching about houses, libor, IR, weak pound etc etc. When they tell me to shutup because I'm hitting a nerve, i then do it some more, then some more, then some more. Sack me? What for, pointing out they are ill informed, greedy ostriches with far less 'wealth' then they think.

I feel like the HPC version of Michael Douglas in Falling Down - I just have enough of these pompous halfwits.

]

Could always being telling you to shutup because your boring. :-)

I find most people who often preach are....

Although have caught myslef doing it to friends who are thiking of buying.

Probably doesn't help that I own a place. BUt then I have a 50% mortgage... not the 98% they are all talking about.

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I heard a guy last week (an amateur property developer just about to give up his day job) who said that there were some good bargains to be had and that if you waited two years prices will go up again. He hasn't even sold his current house yet.

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If you think moods have changed, it will get worse - much, much worse.

This market has only started to go downhill. We have to unwind a 12 year bull market, of which a good 4-5 years was pure bubble territory. At the moment most indices are still YoY positive. Almost who bought over 12 months ago still has equity in their homes - many have absolutely huge amounts of equity. That will still be true at the end of this year. Even by the end of 2008, most people will still have a good amount of equity in their homes. It's Christmas Christmas 2009 will be when it really hits home. That's the end of the denial stage - when official policy from Gordon and the BoE will switch from trying to protect the property bubble to admission and instead focussing on the wider economy - no more interest rate cuts to save the property market. The political damage will have been done by then anyway, so there's no point in trying to prop it up. Whoever's in power will switch to protecting the £ and fighting runaway inflation - base rates will go above the recent 5.75% peak (at least 7%+) and stay there for a long time as the economy implodes and we see another crisis in Sterling (note: joining the Euro will be back high on the political agenda in the next few years).

Things will then continue getting worse as the vicious spiral of tighter lending and falling prices continues for a few more years until we eventually have BBC reports on how the property market is "dead for another generation" and how people are offloading properties for whatever they can get. That's when you know things have bottomed, and when the cycle starts anew.

I agree that the mood has changed, people will soon be very, very angry and desperate if they have bought recently (last six, seven years I`m afraid) If you make wise comments about housing even at a bus stop soon you may be in for a punch in the teeth. Best to just keep it to yourself, don`t be a focus for others despair, let them take the consequences for their actions and work out solutions on their own.

Can`t agree with the rest of your post though, I think you are confusing asking prices with equity, you can`t realise equity unless you can sell, and anyone who has not sold by now will not realise any benefit from the housing "boom". I repeat, it is too late, it is over. How can interest rates save the property market? The banks are not following the base rate, and have not been for some time. The fact that banks are now going back over three decades in their lending practice means that the lenders have decided it is over, over now, today, not Christmas 2009 or in a few years. NuLabour are increasingly irrelevant, I predict mass panic within weeks not years.

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Guest Steve Cook
If I had still been in debt in my late forties I would have considered myself a failure. What the hell is the matter with people.

The majority of people in their mid/late forties are in debt. So, by your logic, presumably the majority of people are failures then?

Edited by Steve Cook
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Suppose dpends how much you pay in rent. My mortgage is 1200 a month.... to rent the sme 5 bed place around here would cost me 1500 -2000. Makes no sense, I pay less by buying. But I may just be the lucky one.

No offence meant here ukdaasfan but I get a little frustrated with this sort of analysis which only considers half of the financial equation. It's a similar analysis used by the BTL brigade who say that because I have 50% equity my mortgage is easily covered by the rent and therefore it's still a good investment even when capital gains are flat.

Lets take a BTL example (this is roughly based on the analysis of the house I currently rent from the landlord):

3 bed house, valued at £300K, 50% mortgage, 50% equity, mortgage payment of £800/month, rental income £1,000

So to rent this house costs £1000/month but the landlords costs are only £800/month (ignoring management, maintenance, insurance etc) therefore he's quids in (being generous at £200/month profit) even if no capaital appreciation right?

Wrong - What this argument misses is that he (the BTL landlord) could sell up and stick the £150K equity in a risk free savings account and earn what £500/month interest net of tax with NO risk to his capital or expenses (that obviously is not true of the current situation for a BTL where their equity is at great risk).

So actually if things were to stay flat he'd be missing out on an extra £300/month income by keeping the BLT property on - that to me is a carp investment even before you take the risk of depreciation into account, no?

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No offence meant here ukdaasfan but I get a little frustrated with this sort of analysis which only considers half of the financial equation. It's a similar analysis used by the BTL brigade who say that because I have 50% equity my mortgage is easily covered by the rent and therefore it's still a good investment even when capital gains are flat.

Lets take a BTL example (this is roughly based on the analysis of the house I currently rent from the landlord):

3 bed house, valued at £300K, 50% mortgage, 50% equity, mortgage payment of £800/month, rental income £1,000

So to rent this house costs £1000/month but the landlords costs are only £800/month (ignoring management, maintenance, insurance etc) therefore he's quids in (being generous at £200/month profit) even if no capaital appreciation right?

Wrong - What this argument misses is that he (the BTL landlord) could sell up and stick the £150K equity in a risk free savings account and earn what £500/month interest net of tax with NO risk to his capital or expenses (that obviously is not true of the current situation for a BTL where their equity is at great risk).

So actually if things were to stay flat he'd be missing out on an extra £300/month income by keeping the BLT property on - that to me is a carp investment even before you take the risk of depreciation into account, no?

All BTL arguments are crap because each of them assumes they behave like shares and profits can be made liquid instantly. This is not the case. Especially at this point.

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Guest theboltonfury
]

Could always being telling you to shutup because your boring. :-)

I find most people who often preach are....

Although have caught myslef doing it to friends who are thiking of buying.

Probably doesn't help that I own a place. BUt then I have a 50% mortgage... not the 98% they are all talking about.

i doubt it's boring very much. I suspect they spend much of their time consumed by this subject

any less boring then walking into work to listen to some wazzock telling me how their house is accumulating them wealth and they will retire at 40 as a result? At least I've been at it for 5 months, not the 5 years of some on the other side

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The majority of people in their mid/late forties are in debt. So, by your logic, presumably the majority of people are failures then?

Ahhh, the old black and white extremes argument. So much more fun than dealing with intricacy and complication - ask any married couple.

Patently not a failure to have debt in late forties, but the surplus of asset over debts should be very substantial by then and necessary outgoings should be well within income.

Simple really and pretty straightforward to achieve, needs moderate fiscal discipline throughout adult life and no really bad breaks.

Unfortunately there are 10000000 naive [email protected] out there who cant spell fiscal let alone understand its meaning. Still wouldn't have been too much of a problem if the lenders hadn't treated them as if they do.

Now, almost overnight, lending has tightened massively and the shock is palpable....

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There is still so much denial out there - we are clearly at the top of a serious hpc and a major financial melt down of a scale never seen before.

Denial being the first stage, we are definitely still early days. My brother is in the process of selling his house in Manchester for almost the full asking price as the buyer happens to have grown up in the house and is fulfilling a dream to buy it back. I keep telling my brother not to worry, to rent and wait it out as a serious crash is under way but he just doesnt seem to believe me or still prefers the security of owning his own home (even if he has to pay for the pleasure) - and he cant escape the fear that he may lost out if prices dont drop. I dont know how to persuade him but he just doesnt seem to listen or care. He has a chance to own a much bigger home for much less if he is patient but I am not sure he will do it...

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i NEVER discuss house prices at work but today for the first time ever i bought a copy of the Daily Mail ,........just so i could leave it lying around the office with its ''3 MILLION GO INTO NEGATIVE EQUITY'' headline on display :lol:

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At this I almost despaired but it shows that either they are really thick, have their heads in the sand or are in the denial stage. The whole thing was really heated. I told them prices are falling just look at the stats. I then got asked how much MY rent was etc!!! I tried to tell them this is happening around your eyes, don't take my word for it read the news. All I got was the usual bull stories again. I gave up.

I think you would do well to understand a bit of the psycology behind all this. Generally people dont like being told they are wrong. If you go in there saying they should STR when actually they just bought or they this when they should that then of course they will get defensive. I think what you need to understand is that everyone derives different utility from owning and so you simply cannot tell them that they are right or wrong.

The whole thing will then descend into an argument where people dont want to back down - consitancy is a dominating factor in social interaction. So much so that its often used in mind control/brain washing excersises. People would rather support crazy ideas than appear inconsitant.

You probably need to be a little more socially aware. Use suggestion, implication, and other techniques to help them consider the reality and allow them to come to their own conclusions in their own time.

I think the key thing to remember is that, for some, being a home owner is not at all a bad thing. Personally I bought a house I love, I can well afford it, I just remortgaged at a great fixed rate with no fee (thanks Nationwide! The deal was only open to existing customers). I bought in London in the last couple of years, Im not a big earner. I dont care if the value of my house goes up or down - I love living there and I can afford it! I got just what I (and everyone else's endgame too?) wanted.

I sometimes dip into the rental forum here to remind me of the hell of renting. Like I said, this is all unique to each of us. If you are you are a single guy who lives a simple life "out of a suitcase" then renting is prob a joy and good luck to you. Im more of a homebody control freak and need security and stability. Long fixed affordable mortgage, control over my environment, knowing where i'll be next year, and after that. Im the kinda guy that pays for the full domestic cover insurance package, no suprise payouts for me if the electrics blow or the boiler packs up! This is all something im prepared to pay a premium for :). But I understand many arent so its pointless trying to persuade such dudes to buy!

All the best and hope you eventually find what you want at a price you can manage.

Cheers.

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I think you would do well to understand a bit of the psycology behind all this. Generally people dont like being told they are wrong. If you go in there saying they should STR when actually they just bought or they this when they should that then of course they will get defensive. I think what you need to understand is that everyone derives different utility from owning and so you simply cannot tell them that they are right or wrong.

The whole thing will then descend into an argument where people dont want to back down - consitancy is a dominating factor in social interaction. So much so that its often used in mind control/brain washing excersises. People would rather support crazy ideas than appear inconsitant.

You probably need to be a little more socially aware. Use suggestion, implication, and other techniques to help them consider the reality and allow them to come to their own conclusions in their own time.

I think the key thing to remember is that, for some, being a home owner is not at all a bad thing. Personally I bought a house I love, I can well afford it, I just remortgaged at a great fixed rate with no fee (thanks Nationwide! The deal was only open to existing customers). I bought in London in the last couple of years, Im not a big earner. I dont care if the value of my house goes up or down - I love living there and I can afford it! I got just what I (and everyone else's endgame too?) wanted.

I sometimes dip into the rental forum here to remind me of the hell of renting. Like I said, this is all unique to each of us. If you are you are a single guy who lives a simple life "out of a suitcase" then renting is prob a joy and good luck to you. Im more of a homebody control freak and need security and stability. Long fixed affordable mortgage, control over my environment, knowing where i'll be next year, and after that. Im the kinda guy that pays for the full domestic cover insurance package, no suprise payouts for me if the electrics blow or the boiler packs up! This is all something im prepared to pay a premium for :). But I understand many arent so its pointless trying to persuade such dudes to buy!

All the best and hope you eventually find what you want at a price you can manage.

Cheers.

I'm renting a house that would market at above £320K for £800 a month (even with the recent 10% off prices round here). New windows, carpets, boiler, fascias, washing machine and gardening work all covered by landlord who has asked us to please stay as long as we want because he couldn't have better tenants looking after his future retirement home while he's abroad. Stress-free, a peaceful garden, 2 spare bedrooms for friends, maintenance on tap next day, 3/4 of joint salaries going to a fund for when houses aren't ridiculously priced...

Ahhh, life is good.*

*(It would be remiss of me not to acknowledge that everything is subject to change and mine might well not be the average experience! - but still, we selected our circumstances from the choices on offer and so far so good).

edit. spp.

Edited by drrayjo
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Another saying that I was 'throwing money down the drain' by renting and that houses are going on the market and selling the next day in Bristol. Another who said you are waiting for the right time to buy and you'll never buy because you will never afford to because you are wasting money renting and prices go only go up!

houses aren't being sold the next day in Bristol anymore,though the EAs would like topanic people into believing so! i have a friend who is insisiting on buying and a flat we viewed(she wanted my expert opinion!)-the EA was pushing her and saying 'well if your not interested,i know some investors who are'

well, the flat is still on the market weeks later!

Property Bee is also showing substantial reductions in Bristol and houses stagnating

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What's the latest Spoony!?!

Well, the chief HPI cheerleader had his own copy of the Daily Mail. It had the 3M to be plunged into negative equity and the following day everyone was reading the House prices to Crash Soon headline. I went to speak to him about something totally unrelated and he immediately thought I was about to gloat about the front page of the newspaper. I hadn't even seen the paper at this stage. After that I resisted a gloating 'told you so' and spoke about what I went up to him for instead. I figured that they will all be panicking enough underneath without me adding to their gloom. Although by the way I have been treated as a 'nutter', attacked and laughed at so recently, I ought to be seeking some kind of pay back but I don't know how to do it with being a smug annoying git who will be open for attack again.

Crazy thing is that there is a someone who is looking to sell the family home to seperate right now. Some of the attacks on me relate to me advising her to sell her house and rent for a while instead of immediately buying. it falls on deaf ears because they still think renting=money down the drain and that a rented house is not settled or secure.

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A very good friend of mine bought a house about two years ago, before he did we had a very long and at times heated debate about the property market, at one point I was almost in tears (I said almost) begging him to wait and not put himself and his lovely wife in to such position, nobody could ever say I didn't try. Anyway to cut a long story short he bought two years ago and is coming to the end of his fix and (I assume) looking for a new deal. Neither of us mention it at all, it has become a taboo subject between us. :(

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It's what I'd imagine working for the Freemason's would be like. Talk about towing the party line. It felt like they had an all consuming culture, something a bit Stepford Wives-like, one that has an air of self-entitlement - to take control your life; not simply coming to work each day to do your contractual work, but joining in with this and that the other - and it felt as though you were shunned if you wanted you own independence to lead your own life and be your own self, a private individual.

.

This is quite common in the UK nowadays, I beleive, regardless of sector. Best to do as you did, if you find yourself working at such a place: Leave.

The thing that really got my goat/was hard not to laugh outloud at in the place like this I briefly worked in, (where the only qualifications required were being a stepford wife), was the constant references to 'being professional', which roughly translated to swallowing the happy pills and toeing the line.

Edited by General Melchett
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I figured that they will all be panicking enough underneath without me adding to their gloom. Although by the way I have been treated as a 'nutter', attacked and laughed at so recently, I ought to be seeking some kind of pay back but I don't know how to do it with being a smug annoying git who will be open for attack again.

Crazy thing is that there is a someone who is looking to sell the family home to seperate right now. Some of the attacks on me relate to me advising her to sell her house and rent for a while instead of immediately buying. it falls on deaf ears because they still think renting=money down the drain and that a rented house is not settled or secure.

I find it's not what I say, but how I say it, that determines how people react.

I tend to say things like: 'well if it was me I would (rent/stay at home/wait a while/invest in somthing else) because (more than one reason why I see things like this) but at the end of the day I can't tell you want to do, you have to make your own decisions'

I think its hard to argue with points made like this, because I make clear that I am just giving my opinion, substatiate that opinion, then make clear that they are free to agree or disagree. It works for me, but perhaps your workplace is different to mine?

Edited by Sonic the Hedge Fund
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Makes me wonder, are women and their "nesting instinct" partly responsible for HPI? :ph34r:

I don't think so, The guy should be honest about the finances, stand his ground and not be pushed into taking on too much debt. If his partner really loves him she'll accept the situation. If she doesn't and appears greedy then the relationship needs work or needs to end!

If I had still been in debt in my late forties I would have considered myself a failure. What the hell is the matter with people.

Nowadays FTBs would be lucky to get into debt (i.e. take out a mortgage) by their late thirties so they'll definitely still be in debt by the forties (probably until their seventies!)

You should try it in the Church of England, the vicar will probably agree with you! :lol:

IMO CoE is like a very relaxed social club compared to other religions. Its representatives seem hazy on what they believe in when you hear them being interviewed. They like to cater for as many people as possible i.e. it's down to personal interpretation what individuals actually believe in. It would actually be interesting to find out what a typical congregation's beliefs are and how much contradiction exists!

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