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My Work Colleages Are Scared


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Don't get into arguments with fools. Onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.

And, more pragmatically, in my yoof I have variously tried to argue with religious types and anti-science types, until I once overheard some very good advice from someone who's job was to argue with some of these people: Dont bother - people like this cannot be argued with in the way that grown-up people understand it - they are not interested in your opinion other than as an opportunity to tell you theirs.

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I was talking to a chap yesterday - just a normal bloke trying to put a roof over his family's head. Over the last 10 years he has re-mortgaged regularly every time his fixed rate ran out. Last time - 2 years ago - the re-mortgage, like the ones before, basically cost him nothing and he often went onto a lower rate.

Couple of months ago his fixed rate ran out and he tried to re-mortgage. Previously he had self-certified which helped him because some of his income is, as it were, 'off the books'. He now cannot get a self-certified mortgage of the size he needs.

Bottom line is his mortgage has just gone up by £375 a month and there is nothing he can do about it. He has worked as a part-time mortgage broker in the past so he knows people and knows the system. But he cannot re-mortgage.

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gave up telling anyone what to do a long time ago.

I come on here, i read probably more about finance and mortgages and the economy than most who do it as a job.You find that most people dont read, they dont debate, the nearest they come to finding out for themselves is reading the manipulated mass press.Economics bores them silly, they have no intrest in learning for themselves.

knowledge is power, like a lawyer or doctor you smile at your ill educated customer and then fleece them.

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and that houses are going on the market and selling the next day in Bristol. Another who said you are waiting for the right time to buy and you'll never buy because you will never afford to because you are wasting money renting and prices go only go up!

Any analysis of this would be great. I wanted to let you know what the mindset seems to be of my local bulls, what do you think is going on here?

Challenge them to sell their property!

I sell insurance part time and this weekend the two customer that said their houses were for sale both said they had had zero viewings in the last 3 months.

One house was in Bristol, the other Bradford. (I always make a point of asking how the sale is going ;) )

My parents in Devon at the weekend got talking to a lady at a house for sale they liked and she's had no viewings since November.

I recently posted that the EA of gfs mums neighbour in Walsall has removed the house from their books after a year because owner won't accept reasonable offers

My nan in Devon gave up trying to sell her bungalow since Aug last year. One sale fell through (credit crunch) then nothing. These bungalows over the last 10 years sold within weeks.

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Previously he had self-certified which helped him because some of his income is, as it were, 'off the books'[/b]

I'm sure the Revenue would be deeply interested to compare and contrast what they have been told with the information provided to his lenders.

As for the op - DON'T get into stand up rows with frightened people. The consequences of their actions will soon come into effect. Angry people might shout, sulk, etc. Frightened people are best kept clear of, and if they lose their houses....

"The most dangerous creation of any society is the man who has nothing to lose" James A. Baldwin

Interesting times ahead!

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Challenge them to sell their property!

I sell insurance part time and this weekend the two customer that said their houses were for sale both said they had had zero viewings in the last 3 months.

One house was in Bristol, the other Bradford. (I always make a point of asking how the sale is going ;) )

My parents in Devon at the weekend got talking to a lady at a house for sale they liked and she's had no viewings since November.

I recently posted that the EA of gfs mums neighbour in Walsall has removed the house from their books after a year because owner won't accept reasonable offers

My nan in Devon gave up trying to sell her bungalow since Aug last year. One sale fell through (credit crunch) then nothing. These bungalows over the last 10 years sold within weeks.

i been watching a house now thats been up for sale for 2 years, i been watching it because i did some work on it in the big renovation before it was put on the market.They put the house on at 1.45 million when they first listed it, dropped 1 year ago to 1.35 million.The owners aint getting any younger, the reality must have surely now sunk in for them, just waiting now for the next drop.

personally i think its worth about 600k with the froth off the market, if they put on at 950k right now they might have a chance, but i just know they wont.They have missed the boat and refuse to believe it yet.

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I arrive at the staff resturant. I get gloated by my companies chief house price inflation cheerleader who just read a report that interest rates will fall to 4% by next year. .......

I then got gang attacked by 4 other people. One saying they had fixed their mortgage the other day and got a good rate of 6%........

All I got was the usual bull stories again. I gave up.

In short they still think I am totally mad or so they say but I think panic is setting in. Rather than say I am right after all they are continuing to trump their bull arguements?

Any analysis of this would be great. I wanted to let you know what the mindset seems to be of my local bulls, what do you think is going on here?

Mate, for your own sake - Shut up about it at work!

Have you considered that it might be that your "pet" subject thats caused work mates to take the P*ss out of you?

Just believe in yourself. The HPI game is over now - its all over the news everyday. You don't need the respect of your workmates to be proved right and if you do, you risk reminding people of their failings - This is just a one way ticket to being bullied.

The worse the housing crash becomes, the more likely it is that you will be attacked because NOONE is going to admit that you are "better" than them.

Just work quietly at your plan, buy a bigger house (or whatever) and then you'll have to learn to avoid another feckless emotion from the crowd - jealousy :unsure:

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Mate, for your own sake - Shut up about it at work!

Hear hear!

Another Baldwin:

"There are few things more dreadful than dealing with a man who knows he is going under, in his own eyes, and in the eyes of others. Nothing can help that man. What is left of that man flees from what is left of human attention."

Some of you HPC folk are going to be sitting pretty in desirable houses with a teeny mortgage and smart, paid for cars etc.

Don't expect admiration from the crashed and burned for your long term planning and wisdom though.

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Challenge them to sell their property!

I sell insurance part time and this weekend the two customer that said their houses were for sale both said they had had zero viewings in the last 3 months.

One house was in Bristol, the other Bradford. (I always make a point of asking how the sale is going ;) )

My parents in Devon at the weekend got talking to a lady at a house for sale they liked and she's had no viewings since November.

I recently posted that the EA of gfs mums neighbour in Walsall has removed the house from their books after a year because owner won't accept reasonable offers

My nan in Devon gave up trying to sell her bungalow since Aug last year. One sale fell through (credit crunch) then nothing. These bungalows over the last 10 years sold within weeks.

To add to that.

Our house, in a lovely part of Derbyshire, has on at least two previous occasions gone to sealed bids. It's been kept up to date and is in extremely good nick.

It was listed 10 months ago at a "sensible" price. We have had a total of five viewers in that time, and have made three price drops (totalling just over 8% of the original price) to get a proceedable offer.

There are other houses in the same area that were on the market well before us, that still have not shifted, despite similar price drops. Some have been let instead to allow the owners to relocate.

Similar properties sold within a fortnight two years ago.

With the exception of one house, all the properties we originally viewed in our new location are still on the market. The one that sold took an offer 11% below his orginal asking price.

It's a shame I'm not one of your work colleagues OP. I'd have been backing you up, despite being a home owner!!

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I was talking to a chap yesterday - just a normal bloke trying to put a roof over his family's head. Over the last 10 years he has re-mortgaged regularly every time his fixed rate ran out. Last time - 2 years ago - the re-mortgage, like the ones before, basically cost him nothing and he often went onto a lower rate.

Couple of months ago his fixed rate ran out and he tried to re-mortgage. Previously he had self-certified which helped him because some of his income is, as it were, 'off the books'. He now cannot get a self-certified mortgage of the size he needs.

Bottom line is his mortgage has just gone up by £375 a month and there is nothing he can do about it. He has worked as a part-time mortgage broker in the past so he knows people and knows the system. But he cannot re-mortgage.

gold

the end of liar loans is the end of the boom

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tbh as long as you bought in 2004 or before and didnt buy using a liar loan you should be able to ride the crash out ok. assuming you didnt MEW and spend it on junk

might not make you happy that your paper gains are now disapearing but that shouldnt matter

Edited by cells
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Hear hear!

Ditto

Keep your head down. They will be enslaved to their mortgages for the rest of their miserable lives. They cannot be saved. If you try and intervene, you will be as welcome as (and treated with the credibility of) the Jehovah's witness who knocks on your door during your Sunday lunch.

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tbh as long as you bought in 2004 or before and didnt buy using a liar loan you should be able to ride the crash out ok. assuming you didnt MEW and spend it on junk

might not make you happy that your paper gains are now disapearing but that shouldnt matter

ah - the magical Y2004. thats the bottom of the market is it? who set it there?

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If they are your true friends they would take your advise on board rather than get all defensive or mock you.

I d take the hint and shut the hell up - I ve had the misfortune for a friend's father to muscle in and bring up how no one will sell their houses if houseprices do drop,- I didnt even bring the subject up :blink::blink::blink: WTF

So hows the [hehe] your little housepricecrash going? WTF?

Edited by notanewmember
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Don't get into arguments with fools. Onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.

And, more pragmatically, in my yoof I have variously tried to argue with religious types and anti-science types, until I once overheard some very good advice from someone who's job was to argue with some of these people: Dont bother - people like this cannot be argued with in the way that grown-up people understand it - they are not interested in your opinion other than as an opportunity to tell you theirs.

That is so true.

I always steer clear of house price discussions now. You can't win an argument with an ignorant person. All these people understand are soundbytes. They don't even have a basic knowledge of finance. I know BTL "investors" here in Ireland that don't even know what a rental yield is.

If you wish to argue with them, you have to talk in soundbytes too unfortunately. i.e. if someone says "Rent is dead money", just reply with "..and so is interest."...and so on. But as I say, I don't argue anymore. It's all too tedious. I doubt anyone will approach you in a few months time and say "Yeah, you were right all along".

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That is so true.

I always steer clear of house price discussions now. You can't win an argument with an ignorant person. All these people understand are soundbytes. They don't even have a basic knowledge of finance. I know BTL "investors" here in Ireland that don't even know what a rental yield is.

If you wish to argue with them, you have to talk in soundbytes too unfortunately. i.e. if someone says "Rent is dead money", just reply with "..and so is interest."...and so on. But as I say, I don't argue anymore. It's all too tedious. I doubt anyone will approach you in a few months time and say "Yeah, you were right all along".

yes, the logic of the HPC argument is not one that can be conducted with a few soundbites. You need to explain credit, risk, how mortgages work, the different types of mortgage, the availability of credit, the difference between headlines and actuality, silly lending, deposit fraud, supply and demand, what is " value", why a house does not "earn" and so on.

TO convert somebody fed on soundbites would take hours.

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Guest mSparks

I prefere a two pronged approach.

For people I care about, Ill sit them down and make them go through their numbers, try my best to help them and then let them make their own decisions.

For people I care less about, I go complete bear, tell them they're f'ed and enjoy the ensuing argument.

Variety is the spice of life.

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remember, you cant argue with a person too thick to understand your argument.

ask the homeowners what their aggregate cost of carry is on their house (mortgage rate x mortgage outstanding + savings rate x equity)

then tell them what rent you are paying pa

I suspect you will be better off from a funding perspective

The only other aspect to consider is the capital exposure to house prices which obviously you dont have; while your friends have highly leveraged bets in a crashing, illiquid, asset market.

lucky them

if they dont understand this, just shake your head and look at them like they're pieces of [email protected] It wont win you any friends but it is quite satisfying and who wants thick friends anyway?

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Men of good fortune

Often cause empires to fall

While men of poor beginnings

Often cant do anything at all

The rich son waits for his father to die

The poor just drink and cry

And me, I just dont care at all

Men of good fortune

Very often cant do a thing

While men of poor beginnings

Often can do anything

At heart they try to act like a man

Handle things the best way they can

They have no rich, daddy to fall back on

Men of good fortune

Often cause empires to fall

While men of poor beginnings

Often cant do anything at all

It takes money to make money they say

Look at the fords, but didnt they start that way

Anyway, it makes no difference to me

Men of good fortune

Often wish that they could die

While men of poor beginnings

Want what they have and to get it theyll die

All those great things that live has to give

They wanna have money and live

But me, I just dont care at all

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Challenge them to sell their property!

I sell insurance part time and this weekend the two customer that said their houses were for sale both said they had had zero viewings in the last 3 months.

One house was in Bristol, the other Bradford. (I always make a point of asking how the sale is going ;) )

My parents in Devon at the weekend got talking to a lady at a house for sale they liked and she's had no viewings since November.

I recently posted that the EA of gfs mums neighbour in Walsall has removed the house from their books after a year because owner won't accept reasonable offers

My nan in Devon gave up trying to sell her bungalow since Aug last year. One sale fell through (credit crunch) then nothing. These bungalows over the last 10 years sold within weeks.

Just a few examples of friends & acquaintances:

1 - Couple who have 2 bed flat in Kew, W London: Have tried to sell for nearly 2 years! I don't really know the details - but they have pulled out 2/3 times only to go back on the market -- but terrified & unable/unwilling to sell for less that they paid for it about 4-5 years ago. They have basically given up. Luckily for them, the wife has inherited from Father - so panic off.

2 - Oldish couple who have house in very desirable Dorset countryside - 4 beds, garden - all v nice. Have tried to sell since Summer before last! -- but despite lowering price by £20-30k - NOTHING. NO TAKERS. Very few viewings. Very different indeed to some 3-4 years ago+ - when these sorts of places were snapped up within days by idiots who paid practically whatever the seller picked out of a phonebook and doubled....

3- Retiring couple - she daughter of friend of mines' landlords - have "beautiful, stunning" 6 bedr house in Devon, q near Honiton - where, again, 3-4 years ago were being snapped up in days for ENORMOUS sums -- Well - they put it on market 15 months ago after gormless "Top" EAs said it was "worth" £980k....... NOTHING. They had just a few viewings over many months - but no takers. They apparently lowered the "price" several times - but then just took it off the market indignantly..... Now they're in despair - bills like Council Tax and utilities doing their heads in - Oil for boiler is about £3,000k - and lasts 4-5 months at best... No one wants to pay ANYTHING LIKE £980k - it is a giant sponge that gobbles up £££s cash by the second.... They were so smug when it was "valued" at £980k --- and now their just clonking around this cold large, damp pile of bricks and stone wandering what to do..... Q funny really --- The smugness of 1-2 years ago was something to behold.

4 - I have heard of 15-20 people/couples/families trying tosell their properties - from London to Cornwall -- THEY CANNOT SELL --- THEY CANNOT ACCEPT THAT IT IS OVER...

Edited by eric pebble
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:lol::lol::lol:

I cant believe it the whole of the UK is just one big HPI movement!!

QFT

break most people open and you'll find HPI4EVA running all the way through them. Everyones long term plan in one way or another depends on the capital appreciation in their houses and your trying to tell them its bullcrap? OP try trolling at MSE or singing pig or whatever, you may well harm your career by having this row at work: they won't listen to you now and will secretly blame you for being right in the future.

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