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The pharmaceutical industry has lost confidence in the UK as a place to do business to an "alarming degree" and the situation is only set to deteriorate, reveals new research.
with 83 per cent expecting the situation to worsen and only one per cent believing it will improve.
Meanwhile, 46 per cent of companies surveyed said the number of UK clinical trials they conduct will drop, while the level of manufacturing is forecast to decrease by 42 per cent.

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What they don't mention is that due to patent expirations and drug recalls the industry as a whole is in big trouble. They've cut staff globally not just the UK, with the exception of china and india where they can hire cheap highly trained scientific staff. As well they've outsourced to uk contract research organizations to cut costs. Its a classic case of a boom and bust industry. And not really much to do with the competitiveness of the uk compared with other western nations.

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What they don't mention is that due to patent expirations and drug recalls the industry as a whole is in big trouble. They've cut staff globally not just the UK, with the exception of china and india where they can hire cheap highly trained scientific staff. As well they've outsourced to uk contract research organizations to cut costs. Its a classic case of a boom and bust industry. And not really much to do with the competitiveness of the uk compared with other western nations.

The Pharma industry must take a heavy share of the blame itself but I don't agree with some of your other comments. Patent expirations and drug recalls are part of the cost of doing business. The amount spent on medecines today is huge and Generic manfuacturing for example is a highly profitable business.

The Pharma industry is quitting the UK for other European countries like Ireland, Switzerland and Germany. The developments in China and India have much to do with long term plans to serve the local markets. The UK is losing the business because of tax and beligerant regulators.

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Big Pharma is an industry of dubious morals and has a less beniegn impact on society than it would have us believe. On the back of the reputation of a few "wonder" drugs and vaccines, which have been a blessing to mankind, they have peddled many, many expensive nostrums and palliatives which may do as much harm as they do good.

At board room level decisions are taken for financial reasons. Research money is poured in, not to find cures, but long term treatments which will generate income streams. Money is used to bribe the political machine to ensure socialised medicine buys their products.

Finding a cheap cure to a medical problem would be a very poor result for a pharmaceutical company - they would probably hide such a discovery if they could.

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The Pharma industry must take a heavy share of the blame itself but I don't agree with some of your other comments. Patent expirations and drug recalls are part of the cost of doing business. The amount spent on medecines today is huge and Generic manfuacturing for example is a highly profitable business.

The Pharma industry is quitting the UK for other European countries like Ireland, Switzerland and Germany. The developments in China and India have much to do with long term plans to serve the local markets. The UK is losing the business because of tax and beligerant regulators.

My comments were not to place blame, simply a statement of fact. The manufacturing side of pharma has moved to ireland due to its low corporate tax. Indeed they are now talking of building in eastern europe due to even lower costs. As for switzerland this has historically been important for pharma as its the birth place of novartis. With regard to chindia, serving local markets might involve building manufacturing facilities, but as R&D is pretty independent of manufacturing (as we can see in the case of ireland), this is due to costs.

Historically pharma has been very profitable, however with patent expirations and drug recalls hitting hard on the bottom lines of these corps, they are now desperately trying to cut costs.

for example -

http://www.globest.com/news/1115_1115/detroit/169110-1.html

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My comments were not to place blame, simply a statement of fact. The manufacturing side of pharma has moved to ireland due to its low corporate tax. Indeed they are now talking of building in eastern europe due to even lower costs. As for switzerland this has historically been important for pharma as its the birth place of novartis. With regard to chindia, serving local markets might involve building manufacturing facilities, but as R&D is pretty independent of manufacturing (as we can see in the case of ireland), this is due to costs.

Historically pharma has been very profitable, however with patent expirations and drug recalls hitting hard on the bottom lines of these corps, they are now desperately trying to cut costs.

for example -

http://www.globest.com/news/1115_1115/detroit/169110-1.html

R&D is not independant of manufacturing although discovery research can be dislocated from manufacturing. For discovery research, good Universities are an advantage. Ireland are doing very well on that score. In the UK science departments are closing down. Non discovery R&D groups tend to migrate to where the manufacturing is. Some of this is practical and some political. Singapore for example have started linking approval of new manufacturing facilities to the construction of R&D facilities.

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In the UK science departments are closing down.

I think that is a little unfair, what we've actually seen is a move. Chemistry departments are closing, esp. those which leant towards industrial chemistry, but Bio-whatever departments have been opening and expanding markedly. This is what I thought most you public sector haters want to see; a public sector that moves quickly with the needs of the market. They've just gone where the money is. To just say "science departments are closing down" is a bit wide of the mark. Actually the biggest closures have been in the social sciences, which again was what I thought many of you wanted to see happen.

Also: Big Pharma are the world's biggest whiners, they make Estate Agents, property rampers and now the banks look like amateurs. They just want something of the government I'm sure.

Edited by Cogs

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I think that is a little unfair, what we've actually seen is a move. Chemistry departments are closing, esp. those which leant towards industrial chemistry, but Bio-whatever departments have been opening and expanding markedly. This is what I thought most you public sector haters want to see; a public sector that moves quickly with the needs of the market. They've just gone where the money is. To just say "science departments are closing down" is a bit wide of the mark. Actually the biggest closures have been in the social sciences, which again was what I thought many of you wanted to see happen.

Also: Big Pharma are the world's biggest whiners, they make Estate Agents, property rampers and now the banks look like amateurs. They just want something of the government I'm sure.

I like the public sector; when it is doing what it is supposed to. Unfortunatey, in the UK, that is a rare event. When you say 'Bio-whatever departments have been opening and expading', which ones are you referring to? Are you suggesting that the market doesn't need industrial chemistry!?

On the subject of Big Pharma, I have sympathies with your sentiments. I am always worried by organisations which get too large whether it is in the public or private sector.

However, the fact that Pharma companies are moving elsewhere in Europe is a matter of deep concern. What particularly disturbs me are the number of small technology companies that are shutting up shop in the UK as the big manufacturers leave.

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I like the public sector; when it is doing what it is supposed to. Unfortunatey, in the UK, that is a rare event. When you say 'Bio-whatever departments have been opening and expading', which ones are you referring to? Are you suggesting that the market doesn't need industrial chemistry!?

On the subject of Big Pharma, I have sympathies with your sentiments. I am always worried by organisations which get too large whether it is in the public or private sector.

However, the fact that Pharma companies are moving elsewhere in Europe is a matter of deep concern. What particularly disturbs me are the number of small technology companies that are shutting up shop in the UK as the big manufacturers leave.

Personally i think this partly due to the misallocation of wealth. i.e. difficulty in attracting necessary capital. Where has the capital gone in the UK? you got it, speculation in housing....

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I like the public sector; when it is doing what it is supposed to. Unfortunatey, in the UK, that is a rare event. When you say 'Bio-whatever departments have been opening and expading', which ones are you referring to? Are you suggesting that the market doesn't need industrial chemistry!?

On the subject of Big Pharma, I have sympathies with your sentiments. I am always worried by organisations which get too large whether it is in the public or private sector.

However, the fact that Pharma companies are moving elsewhere in Europe is a matter of deep concern. What particularly disturbs me are the number of small technology companies that are shutting up shop in the UK as the big manufacturers leave.

In the UK science careers are generally lousy in terms of pay and long term prospects with respect to the level of necessary skill involved. Contrast that with other professional fields. As a result few individuals want to be a scientist, so few students, so departments close. Another missallocation of wealth.....

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In the UK science careers are generally lousy in terms of pay and long term prospects with respect to the level of necessary skill involved. Contrast that with other professional fields. As a result few individuals want to be a scientist, so few students, so departments close. Another missallocation of wealth.....

exactly - my pay is crap compared to my skill ;)

i cannot recommend a scientific career to anybody these days (even though i do enjoy it) - the pay is crap and we get zero respect from people far stupider and less qualified than us (HR people and the like).

As a chemist working in a up and coming pharma company i can tell you that the laws and regulations stiffle research significantly - to the point that its barely worth the effort. Patent laws in particular seem designed solely to hamper innovation, not encourage it.

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exactly - my pay is crap compared to my skill ;)

i cannot recommend a scientific career to anybody these days (even though i do enjoy it) - the pay is crap and we get zero respect from people far stupider and less qualified than us (HR people and the like).

As a chemist working in a up and coming pharma company i can tell you that the laws and regulations stiffle research significantly - to the point that its barely worth the effort. Patent laws in particular seem designed solely to hamper innovation, not encourage it.

Yep, though the UK government has been trying to ramp it as a career, saying that there is a scientist shortage. Funnily enough they never mention why that's so.......

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Are you suggesting that the market doesn't need industrial chemistry!?

I'm saying they refuse to pay for it which is a slightly different thing. Academia runs on fairly strict business lines these days, if there isn't money from industry then its time to close.

End of, the government doesn't see itself as having a role in keeping 'failing' departments open. The "Ivory Tower" stereotype has as much to do with real life as the "Two Towers" these days.

Not that it will stop embittered people complaining but they usually have some sort of axe to grind, an unfortunate student experience or lack of one perhaps.

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I'm saying they refuse to pay for it which is a slightly different thing. Academia runs on fairly strict business lines these days, if there isn't money from industry then its time to close.

End of, the government doesn't see itself as having a role in keeping 'failing' departments open. The "Ivory Tower" stereotype has as much to do with real life as the "Two Towers" these days.

Not that it will stop embittered people complaining but they usually have some sort of axe to grind, an unfortunate student experience or lack of one perhaps.

Strict business lines is probably true. Chemistry is expensive to teach. That is why Universities close down chemistry departments.

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exactly - my pay is crap compared to my skill ;)

i cannot recommend a scientific career to anybody these days (even though i do enjoy it) - the pay is crap and we get zero respect from people far stupider and less qualified than us (HR people and the like).

As a chemist working in a up and coming pharma company i can tell you that the laws and regulations stiffle research significantly - to the point that its barely worth the effort. Patent laws in particular seem designed solely to hamper innovation, not encourage it.

I completely agree with this post. Although I am not a chemist, I see the chemistry profession adding greatly to the wealth of the country but getting rewarded with peanuts.

As for regulations, the UK has got itself tied knots with the tidal wave of useless rules coming out of the EU, central government and local government. It is becoming unbelievably difficult to handle harmful substances even in well equiped labs. As for the implemtation of the ATEX rules (for equipment in hazardous and potentially hazard atmospheres) the stupidity surrounding that defies all common sense.

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yep, there's a lot of difficulties in both the equity and property markets - so i'm doing what lots and lots of US citizens are doing at the moment - BUYING SILVER.

Some say gold AND silver is the answer, but i see all the advantages of gold in silver - as well as a zillion others.

there's a growing band of people waking up to silver as an investment. I'm unashamedly bullish on silver for the following reasons:

1) demand has outstripped supply every year of the last 15 - and for at least 60 years on average.

2) most if not all government inventories are now depleted.

3) the list of industrial uses grows (including solar panels), now more than making up for the loss from photography, and in medical instruments and dressings because it kills MRSA.

4) silver is both a precious and a base metal, meaning it's an inflation hedge and necessary for industry.

5) in many industrial applications there is no alternative - eg mirrors.

6) although silver has gone up over the past few years, the rise has been so slow (relatively) over the past few decades because there was always more in government inventories as an artificial supply. now this has gone, the sky's the limit.

The market will also accept a price of silver many times its current price - eg if an industrial switch (or mirror etc) costs £2 to produce, with the silver accounting for 2p of that, if the price of silver times by 5 to 10p - noone would notice now paying £2.10 for the switch!

As for how to invest, i'd be split between an etf and holding bullion - there's a lot of concern that the etfs couldn't actually meet their silver committments due to a net short position.

like everyone i've said this to - do your own rsearch via google or anywhere else and the answer is inescapable. Good luck.

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Drug research done in the past traditionally used caucasian subjects. This led to lots of drugs that treat white people very well, with almost complete ignorance of the effects of drugs on other races.

An example is antihypertensives for high blood pressure. The 'normal' approach of beta blocker use is good on white europeans and americans, but really cr@p on black people.

If by moving abroad we get a better drug effectiveness then great, but the danger is that we end up with drugs that work on indian people or chinese or whatever and just move the fundamental flaw in this industry somewhere else.

And don't start me on the quality of Chinese goods... :angry: HP laptops, M$ Keyboards all going down the pan since moving production to China.

I really don't want dodgy batches of Amoxil or whatever coming from China with whatever dodgy reagents are 'slipping through.'

TFH

Edited by Tin Foil Hat

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I completely agree with this post. Although I am not a chemist, I see the chemistry profession adding greatly to the wealth of the country but getting rewarded with peanuts.

As for regulations, the UK has got itself tied knots with the tidal wave of useless rules coming out of the EU, central government and local government. It is becoming unbelievably difficult to handle harmful substances even in well equiped labs. As for the implemtation of the ATEX rules (for equipment in hazardous and potentially hazard atmospheres) the stupidity surrounding that defies all common sense.

Any scientific or engineering discipline which handles materials has become very expensive to teach, and massively over-regulated to practice. Much better to stay with "virtual" materials, e.g. computer science.

The pic of the building I posted up the thread, is part of Aston Science Park, attached to Aston university. As far as I can make out from their website, they have only managed to let 3 units out of 50 or so listed, with 2 under offer. Is this representative of the commercial market nowadays, anybody know?

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Drug research done in the past traditionally used caucasian subjects. This led to lots of drugs that treat white people very well, with almost complete ignorance of the effects of drugs on other races.

An example is antihypertensives for high blood pressure. The 'normal' approach of beta blocker use is good on white europeans and americans, but really cr@p on black people.

If by moving abroad we get a better drug effectiveness then great, but the danger is that we end up with drugs that work on indian people or chinese or whatever and just move the fundamental flaw in this industry somewhere else.

And don't start me on the quality of Chinese goods... :angry: HP laptops, M$ Keyboards all going down the pan since moving production to China.

I really don't want dodgy batches of Amoxil or whatever coming from China with whatever dodgy reagents are 'slipping through.'

TFH

how's about some toothpaste? :o

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Any scientific or engineering discipline which handles materials has become very expensive to teach, and massively over-regulated to practice. Much better to stay with "virtual" materials, e.g. computer science.

I'm surprised they teach chemistry at all these days, not like when we had all sorts of nasties to play with. At my sister's school the teacher left a lump of white phosphorus on the table, which subsequently caught fire... can you imagine the headlines these days?

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The pic of the building I posted up the thread, is part of Aston Science Park, attached to Aston university. As far as I can make out from their website, they have only managed to let 3 units out of 50 or so listed, with 2 under offer. Is this representative of the commercial market nowadays, anybody know?

There is a science park attached to The University of Birmingham and I believe the Pebble Mill site is being redeveloped to a similar purpose.

Perhaps science parks are the commercial equivalent of new build flats? It certainly seems you are nobody withOUT [edit] a "Biotech Fenn" or a "Silicon Glen" or a "Digital Valley" these days.

Edited by Cogs

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Just to say, as a chemistry grad, I have sympathies with the chemists here. People are under the impression that mere trade ("buy it for £1, sell it for £1.50") will ensure our success as a nation. The fact is even our success as bankers relies upon "innovation" (and look where that got us in that sector). We need another mobile phone industry or some such. Celebs and house-dressers will not do. /rant

Thanks to corevalue for introducing me to Urbexers. Definately one for my "cutural" folder. I note the architects are also interested. There's a telling line in the BluePrint quote :

"... certainly, we can no longer afford to buy property, despite 125% mortgages calculated on 6 times earnings, and running to a term of 50 years or more. Development work will grind to a halt if higher yields are available elsewhere, such as the stock market, the futures market, or particularly in private equity funds. "

Edited by Sledgehead

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  • 294 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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