Are We Now Entering The Stage Where The Public Are Told?

[Panda]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7314542.stm

http://podcast.ulcc.ac.uk/accounts/Number1...PMQs26Mar08.mp3

Point-by-point: Question time

The main points from prime minister's questions on Wednesday, 26 March, from 1200 GMT:

Prime Minister Gordon Brown welcomed President Sarkozy and his wife to the UK. He said he would be discussing joint action on illegal immigration and measures to tackle global financial instability.

Conservative leader David Cameron also welcomed the Sarkozys to the UK.

Mr Cameron used all six of his questions to attack Mr Brown's record on the economy. He used a Treasury Select Committee report to criticise his handling of the Northern Rock crisis, accusing the government of "dithering" compared to the swift action taken by the US government over the collapse of Bear Stearns. Mr Cameron said the Bank of England should be in charge of bank rescues rather than the Financial Services Authority, which he said was short of expertise in key areas.

Mr Brown said the Financial Services Authority had done a good job. He said it could do more - but every regulator around the world was facing similar problems. He accused Mr Cameron of having "no basic grasp of arithmetic" - a quote from Tory supporting novelist Frederick Forsyth.

Mr Cameron said it was "pathetic" for Mr Brown to read out quotes from novelists. He challenged Mr Brown to name one other major country that was responding to the downturn by putting up taxes. He said every other country had put away money in the good times except Britain and he called on Mr Brown to take responsibility for this.

Mr Brown said the government was cutting the basic rate of income tax to 20p and was "injecting more money into the economy this year". He said Britain had the lowest rate of inflation of the major countries and had unemployment at half the rate of other EU countries.

"I just wish he knew something about economics when he came to this house to tell us what to do," said Mr Brown, adding that all Mr Cameron could offer was "slogans not substance". He said the Tories had learned nothing since the 1990s.

Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg also focused on the economy - calling on Mr Brown to take action to prevent banks repossessing homes "at will". He said the situation was as bad as under the Tories in the first two years of the 1990s.

He asked: "is complacency the only thing he has to offer to thousands of British families who are frightened of losing their homes?"

Mr Brown said the economic situation was nothing like that under the Tories in the early 1990s when interest rates reached 18% and home repossessions were much higher. He hailed Labour's record on economic stability and low interest rates.

Edited March 26, 2008 by Panda

[greenalien]

So what questions would you like to ask Gordon Brown?

How about : 1) What was the value of gold when you sold off a big chunk of the UK gold reserve? 2) What is the value of gold now? 3) How much did that 'prudent' decision cost the UK? 4) Would you like to make up the difference from your own pocket, or would you rather resign? :angry:

[thecrashingisles]

Mr Cameron said it was "pathetic" for Mr Brown to read out quotes from novelists. He challenged Mr Brown to name one other major country that was responding to the downturn by putting up taxes. He said every other country had put away money in the good times except Britain and he called on Mr Brown to take responsibility for this.

Mr Brown said the government was cutting the basic rate of income tax to 20p and was "injecting more money into the economy this year". He said Britain had the lowest rate of inflation of the major countries and had unemployment at half the rate of other EU countries.

Even though I strongly disagreed with them I'm starting to have some sense of how the the people who passionately hated Thatcher felt. Gordon Brown is the only politician who has managed to make me feel so angry.

[Hard-up]

Just went to check Hansard near-live "Today in the Commons" and discovered that it had been discontinued. Instead we have to wait until 8am the following day for the official Hansard report.

This had better not have anything to do with the

"So What" incident :angry:

[Dr House]

Even though I strongly disagreed with them I'm starting to have some sense of how the the people who passionately hated Thatcher felt. Gordon Brown is the only politician who has managed to make me feel so angry.

100% Agree. I don't know anyone who actually likes him, even labour supporters. And a large number of people are getting apoplectic about him. Basically he is Stalin - it is simple, and the people are much insulted by his decision to underestimate their intelligence. Recall that survey last week which said 80% of people now think the government statistics are fiddled?

I have a feeling that when the gov make their next mistake (well due) the people will rise up!

Next step - trouncing of Labour in local elections in May, and fingers and toes crossed, the ousting of Ken. I think Brown will know it is all over for him at that point...................... :angry:

[thefinalbear]

Basically he is Stalin

Been reading Private Eye by any chance?

Edited March 26, 2008 by thefinalbear

[yawnIHateSundays]

Recall that survey last week which said 80% of people now think the government statistics are fiddled?

And the remaining 20% know they are.

[Maggot_with_halitosis]

...Depends on how far Gordon Brown can force his tongue up Rupert Murdoch's anus. If he manages to taste tonsils then come election day we'll see the Sun giving away a free bingo card, union jack underpants and a six-pack of lager along with a labour party membership application form. And then it's all over for another five years, enough time for every MP in the house to claim an additional three-quarters of a million pounds to fund their lavish lifestyle staffing costs.

FWIW, I'm not convinced that David Cameron would be any more competent. Making Kirsty Allsop a property adviser to the Consertvative party spelled that out loud and clear (she's basically as thick as pigshit). They're just two prize polished turds crowing over the number of flies that land on 'em.

[Panda]

The low inflation, high employment speech just keeps rolling of his bullsh!tting @rse l!cking tongue!

Its starting to wear a little thin. But the hatred directed towards him, and his cabinet, because those who surround him are as bad, will become greater and greater as time goes on.

[sossij]

So what questions would you like to ask Gordon Brown?

How about : 1) What was the value of gold when you sold off a big chunk of the UK gold reserve? 2) What is the value of gold now? 3) How much did that 'prudent' decision cost the UK? 4) Would you like to make up the difference from your own pocket, or would you rather resign? :angry:

These "Gordon sold our gold at an all time low" arguments are a bit silly. You could just as easily ask why didn't Geoffrey Howe didn't sell a load when it was at its all time high of $850 in 1980 - look at all the money he could have made!

[Captain Cavey]

Can anyone honestly say that the current mess we are in would not have happened had the Tories been in power?

It would seem that there is a common problem throughout the entire “developed” world irrespective of the political leanings or the competence of the politicians in power. It demonstrates that the real power is not with the elected representatives (or Bush), but the bankers making the big money.

[Leonard Hatred]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm actually scared that Brown is turning into Stalin. He's a pathological liar, he's attempting to erase history, and he's using doublethink. He has doubled income tax for those who previously paid the basic rate.

He's a filthy, stinking liar.

[ollk]

Mr Brown said the economic situation was nothing like that under the Tories in the early 1990s when interest rates reached 18% and home repossessions were much higher. He hailed Labour's record on economic stability and low interest rates.

I'm confused, 18%? Is that Browns interpretation of where interest rates peaked or did they really get that high?

LOL I wish someone would publicly suggest to Brown how unbelievably screwed this country would be if Interest rates hit 10% let alone any higher figure...

[thefinalbear]

LOL I wish someone would publicly suggest to Brown how unbelievably screwed this country would be if Interest rates hit 10% let alone any higher figure...

The whole country is screwed by SVR's of 7-8%....which we have......10% would be meltdown.

[Dr House]

Can anyone honestly say that the current mess we are in would not have happened had the Tories been in power?

It would seem that there is a common problem throughout the entire “developed” world irrespective of the political leanings or the competence of the politicians in power. It demonstrates that the real power is not with the elected representatives (or Bush), but the bankers making the big money.

Three things would have been different if we had had 10 years of, say Ken Clarke:

1. There would have been higher interest rates and no fateful Aug 05 cut (remember Gordon has manipulated housing to boost his personal ambitions)

2. Public Spending would have been less by a large order of magnitude.

3. I doubt they would have sold all our Gold - not a Tory thing to do...

So yes, the position would have been much stronger under the Tories

[bearbullfence]

So what questions would you like to ask Gordon Brown?

How about : 1) What was the value of gold when you sold off a big chunk of the UK gold reserve? 2) What is the value of gold now? 3) How much did that 'prudent' decision cost the UK? 4) Would you like to make up the difference from your own pocket, or would you rather resign? :angry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard

In 1999, to protect the value of gold as a reserve, European Central Bankers signed the "Washington Agreement," which stated that they would not allow gold leasing for speculative purposes, nor would they "enter the market as sellers" except for sales that had already been agreed upon.

Exactly how much do you think he'd get for gold now??

[Dr House]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm actually scared that Brown is turning into Stalin. He's a pathological liar, he's attempting to erase history, and he's using doublethink. He has doubled income tax for those who previously paid the basic rate.

He's a filthy, stinking liar.

Yes. Did anyone see the piece in the ST on Sunday saying a lot of back benchers are suggesting he should resign "on medical grounds"? Before I read the small print (to do with his eyesight apparently...!) I just assumed they meant he needed the men in white coats, as he surely does. He has such a batch of personality disorders you could have a 3 day conference on them - and worst of all is his outrageous lying and underestimation of the voter... and his baleful grudge against England and the Middle Classes.......................... :angry: he is the most odious and repulsive PM we have ever had (Discuss!)

[Paddles]

Yes. Did anyone see the piece in the ST on Sunday saying a lot of back benchers are suggesting he should resign "on medical grounds"? Before I read the small print (to do with his eyesight apparently...!) I just assumed they meant he needed the men in white coats, as he surely does. He has such a batch of personality disorders you could have a 3 day conference on them - and worst of all is his outrageous lying and underestimation of the voter... and his baleful grudge against England and the Middle Classes.......................... :angry: he is the most odious and repulsive PM we have ever had (Discuss!)

And he bites his nails and has a weird jaw thing going on (which the Labour party have paid thousands to try to get sorted with therapy, etc.).

But all that aside, he took housing costs out of the BoE's inflation target. That's his mistake, and irony of irony's it was almost the first thing he did on entering government, right after choosing his new chair and selecting a notebook from the stationary cupboard.

[gavp]

To me, this is hugely significant. The Tories have previously been terrified to mention the economy, knowing that they had no real reply to Labour's "ten years of sustained economic growth". The fact that they're not only mentioning it, but making it the key focus of their attack, suggests that their assessment is that the economy is in serious trouble and won't be bouncing back in the short-to-medium term.

[poorman]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm actually scared that Brown is turning into Stalin. He's a pathological liar, he's attempting to erase history, and he's using doublethink. He has doubled income tax for those who previously paid the basic rate.

He's a filthy, stinking liar.

Could I please have the names of the idiot's, who voted Labour over the 3 elections.

I can honestly say I have never voted for Blair/Brown. Is there anyone out there brave enough to admit that they have?? go one be hoonest! Not like Brown eh!! :angry:

[Rare Bear]

I'm confused, 18%? Is that Browns interpretation of where interest rates peaked or did they really get that high?

LOL I wish someone would publicly suggest to Brown how unbelievably screwed this country would be if Interest rates hit 10% let alone any higher figure...

Rates did go really high, it could have been 18%, but for one afternoon only. They were however well over 10% for a helluva long time.

[patprimer74]

So what questions would you like to ask Gordon Brown?

How about : 1) What was the value of gold when you sold off a big chunk of the UK gold reserve? 2) What is the value of gold now? 3) How much did that 'prudent' decision cost the UK? 4) Would you like to make up the difference from your own pocket, or would you rather resign? :angry:

Exactly right, Greenalien! Gordon Brown should have known in advance what the future price of gold was going to be. Call himself a Chancellor of the Exchequer, indeed?

If you and I were clever enough to accurately see into the future and know how house prices were going to rise over these years, the least he could do was to accurately forsee the future rise in the price of gold!

p

[Ah-so]

Twice Gordon Brown got away with "we cut the basic rate of income tax to 20p". Cameron missed the retort that he abolished the 10p rate and actually managed to raise tax with it, especially for low earners.

Both of Nick Clegg's questions were on the housing market, including one on putting housing back into the inflation figures so that interest rates are set at realistic levels.

[patprimer74]

he took housing costs out of the BoE's inflation target. That's his mistake ...

Just thinking aloud.

'Place housing costs in inflation target.'

'If inflation happens to be high, then we'd expect the BoE to increase interest rates.'

'Because housing costs are in the inflation target, the increased interest feeds straight in to the inflation figures, causing them to rise.'

'So, the BoE must increase interest rates again.'

'Inflation increases further, BoE increase interest rates again... inflation up ... interest rates up... and on and on..'

Perhaps economists amongst us would explain the folly of such idiocy as having housing costs in the inflation figures?

Thank you.

p

[Panda]

The big test, the only test will come when he has to lead his party into an election where we the people will decide whether we want to elect the one eyed, jaw juderrrring, piece of bullsh!tting stalanistic tranny as the PM of the UK?

He has not achieved anything until he wins by being voted in, not by bullying poor old TB?