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Motley Fool Article - D'arcy Finally Says

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http://www.fool.co.uk/news/property-home/m...ioowftxt0010011

Not telling us anything new here, and let's face it, D'Arcy is "living amongst us" here anyway. However a couple of the comments are pearlers!

My favourite is;

At 09:25 on March 26 2008, frank9254 said:

I want to cry!!! Our mortgage, which is with Northern Rock, is up in a couple of weeks and we're SELF CERT!!! And INTEREST ONLY!!!

It looks as if our monthly payments are going to double!

We took the Interest Only option as we're seld employed and wanted less pressure and it did help but now we're flumexed.

Does anyone have any constructive advice they can offer or know of any good Self Cert deals out there?????

PLEASE HELP......

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Started reading Cliff D`arcy views on fool.co.uk about 3 years ago and he was hugely influential in my decision to STR last year, actually his blogs probably directed me towards HPC.co.uk

Even though his timing to STR was a few years out, he was definitely, as being proven now, barking up the right tree.

I really do believe that whatever is going to happen has really only just started and that a shitstorm is en route.

He is right to say "Told you so" but I believe this statement will be bolder in the months to come.

Anyway something for Eric, Cliff also stated.

3. Self-certification: These so-called ‘liar loans' have been used by desperate or unscrupulous buyers and brokers to get substandard borrowers onto the property ladder. By inflating their incomes, buyers were able to borrow much more than they should have. This market is almost as dead as a dodo, which could prove a problem for self-employed borrowers and those on irregular incomes.

Well done Mr D`Arcy, Keep em coming.... ;)

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Started reading Cliff D`arcy views on fool.co.uk about 3 years ago and he was hugely influential in my decision to STR last year, actually his blogs probably directed me towards HPC.co.uk

Even though his timing to STR was a few years out, he was definitely, as being proven now, barking up the right tree.

I really do believe that whatever is going to happen has really only just started and that a shitstorm is en route.

He is right to say "Told you so" but I believe this statement will be bolder in the months to come.

Anyway something for Eric, Cliff also stated.

3. Self-certification: These so-called ‘liar loans' have been used by desperate or unscrupulous buyers and brokers to get substandard borrowers onto the property ladder. By inflating their incomes, buyers were able to borrow much more than they should have. This market is almost as dead as a dodo, which could prove a problem for self-employed borrowers and those on irregular incomes.

Well done Mr D`Arcy, Keep em coming.... ;)

Cliff D'arcy is Eric Pebble :)

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http://www.fool.co.uk/news/property-home/m...ioowftxt0010011

Not telling us anything new here, and let's face it, D'Arcy is "living amongst us" here anyway. However a couple of the comments are pearlers!

My favourite is;

My favourite quote from the article is:

For the record, there are around 11.8 million mortgages outstanding in the UK. Let's say that the credit crunch makes life difficult for just a quarter (25%) of mortgage borrowers. This means that around four million homeowners may find it tough to arrange a new mortgage when they decide to buy, move or remortgage. Ouch!

The completely arbitrary number of 25% aside, (as pointed out by a comment on the site itself) how much confidence can you have in a man that thinks a quarter of 11.8 is around 4???

Edited by RobK

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http://www.fool.co.uk/news/property-home/m...ioowftxt0010011

Not telling us anything new here, and let's face it, D'Arcy is "living amongst us" here anyway. However a couple of the comments are pearlers!

My favourite is;

And, the corollary;

At 09:49 on March 26 2008, townfan08 said:

Our mortgage with Rock ended in Febuary and we are in the exact same situation as frank9254.

All we had from them was advice to move lender.We have taken a payment holiday and have decided to cash in on the equity and downsize hopefully ridding ourselves of a mortgage once and for all.

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I like Cliff however, he sold up in 2004, fearing imminent house price collapse, which IMHO makes him less objective than others. He's admitted several times he got his timing badly wrong, which is more than some evangelical STRers have done on 'ere :rolleyes: With hindsight, as prices go back to 2004 levels as a minimum correction, he can perhaps justify his decision, however, he has also admitted that unless prices fall back to that 2004 level he'll struggle to put a 'mortgaged roof' over his family's head for some time. Like many family blokes suddenly STRenting he was quite frankly greedy and stupid in equal measures, the first emotion being his primary motivation.

Edited by Converted Lurker

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"For the record, there are around 11.8 million mortgages outstanding in the UK. Let's say that the credit crunch makes life difficult for just a quarter (25%) of mortgage borrowers. This means that around four million homeowners may find it tough to arrange a new mortgage when they decide to buy, move or remortgage. Ouch! "

I'd be more convinced he knew what he was talking about it he knew a quarter of 11.8 million is a little under 3 million and not around 4 million!!!

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Well... that depends really. If there are 12million mortgages one can quite comfortably assert that the majority of recent mortgages - say 50% are joint mortgages. Therefore we can deduce that this 12m mortgages are held by 18million people. Hence at least 4million individuals will be in difficulty.

However, what he fails to mention is that at this point they will cease to be homeowners... therefore the net effect is zero. ;)

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Anyway something for Eric, Cliff also stated.

3. Self-certification: These so-called ‘liar loans' have been used by desperate or unscrupulous buyers and brokers to get substandard borrowers onto the property ladder. By inflating their incomes, buyers were able to borrow much more than they should have. This market is almost as dead as a dodo, which could prove a problem for self-employed borrowers and those on irregular incomes.

Thanks boshdadosh...

It is just so incredibly WEIRD how people EVER thought that the LIAR LOAN System was EVER going to end in anything but TEARS and DISASTER...... You would only have to be competent at Maths to Primary School standard to have worked it out...... Just plain WEIRD.

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Started reading Cliff D`arcy views on fool.co.uk about 3 years ago and he was hugely influential in my decision to STR last year, actually his blogs probably directed me towards HPC.co.uk

Even though his timing to STR was a few years out, he was definitely, as being proven now, barking up the right tree.

I really do believe that whatever is going to happen has really only just started and that a shitstorm is en route.

He is right to say "Told you so" but I believe this statement will be bolder in the months to come.

Anyway something for Eric, Cliff also stated.

3. Self-certification: These so-called ‘liar loans' have been used by desperate or unscrupulous buyers and brokers to get substandard borrowers onto the property ladder. By inflating their incomes, buyers were able to borrow much more than they should have. This market is almost as dead as a dodo, which could prove a problem for self-employed borrowers and those on irregular incomes.

Well done Mr D`Arcy, Keep em coming.... ;)

"FEW YEARS OUT!" yep only 3-4, lost in equity perhaps 300K and now has to wait on a huge correction to get back to square one - Doh! Listen, here's a thing, at some stage the stock markets will crash, I don't know when, but they will, 'cos it always happens eventually, OK? To me that's as concrete as the info the STR brigade operated on 3-4 years ago. Since then we've had back peddling attempts at self justification; "Ah ha! but I put it (my STR fund yawn :rolleyes: ) in gold/junior mining stocks - waiting on Mars' platinum exploration rights in 2095 to be given out by NASA/the illuminati :rolleyes:

Bottom line, any married bloke who sold up to rent in 2003-4 was a selfish and greedy tw@t. Should have simply stayed put, and paid down the mortgage, end of. Similary anyone who was mugged off by the supposed intelligencia on 'ere to sell up in 2003/04/05 'cos of lots of clever 'charts & things' deserves all they get/got. <_<

Edited by Converted Lurker

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"FEW YEARS OUT!" yep only 3-4, lost in equity perhaps 300K and now has to wait on a huge correction to get back to square one - Doh! Listen, here's a thing, at some stage the stock markets will crash, I don't know when, but they will, 'cos it always happens eventually, OK? To me that's as concrete as the info the STR brigade operated on 3-4 years ago. Since then we've had back peddling attempts at self justification; "Ah ha! but I put it (my STR fund yawn :rolleyes: ) in gold/junior mining stocks - waiting on Mars' platinum exploration rights in 2095 to be given out by NASA/the illuminati :rolleyes:

Bottom line, any married bloke who sold up to rent in 2003-4 was a selfish and greedy tw@t. Should have simply stayed put, and paid down the mortgage, end of. Similary anyone who was mugged off by the supposed intelligencia on 'ere to sell up in 2003/04/05 'cos of lots of clever 'charts & things' deserves all they get/got. <_<

Having a bad day CL? :)

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"FEW YEARS OUT!" yep only 3-4, lost in equity perhaps 300K and now has to wait on a huge correction to get back to square one - Doh! Listen, here's a thing, at some stage the stock markets will crash, I don't know when, but they will, 'cos it always happens eventually, OK? To me that's as concrete as the info the STR brigade operated on 3-4 years ago. Since then we've had back peddling attempts at self justification; "Ah ha! but I put it (my STR fund yawn :rolleyes: ) in gold/junior mining stocks - waiting on Mars' platinum exploration rights in 2095 to be given out by NASA/the illuminati :rolleyes:

Bottom line, any married bloke who sold up to rent in 2003-4 was a selfish and greedy tw@t. Should have simply stayed put, and paid down the mortgage, end of. Similary anyone who was mugged off by the supposed intelligencia on 'ere to sell up in 2003/04/05 'cos of lots of clever 'charts & things' deserves all they get/got. <_<

STR, is not a crime, It is a risk he chose at that time... He fooked up!! He openly admits he Fooked up. I STR`d last August. I too am a family man. This is my risk. I don`t think that makes me greedy, that is oppinion.

I earn very well and over paid hugely into my Huge mortgage and paid the lot off in 5 years.

Yes I made money through HPI but why not?

I am here to look after my family and if someone is prepared to take the risk then power to them. I was not going to see my efforts pi55 down the drain.

If STRing is greedy then so is anyone that risks money on shares, lottery, gee gees etc.

I may get it wrong but it is my risk and yes you are quite correct we deserve all we get.

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STR, is not a crime, It is a risk he chose at that time... He fooked up!! He openly admits he Fooked up. I STR`d last August. I too am a family man. This is my risk. I don`t think that makes me greedy, that is oppinion.

I earn very well and over paid hugely into my Huge mortgage and paid the lot off in 5 years.

Yes I made money through HPI but why not?

I am here to look after my family and if someone is prepared to take the risk then power to them. I was not going to see my efforts pi55 down the drain.

If STRing is greedy then so is anyone that risks money on shares, lottery, gee gees etc.

I may get it wrong but it is my risk and yes you are quite correct we deserve all we get.

STRenting last August is brilliant timing IMHO. Those who STRent 3-4 years ago have been mugged off. A 25-30% correction will take us back to were we where but ...that hasn't happened yet has it, and the mortgage landscape is going to look very different in a couple of years time, which is IMHO how long any falls of that magnitude will take to occur..

D'ya know who I'm beginning to regard as the real winners in 'playing houses'? Those who didn't play any aspect of the paranoia re 'protection' or attempting to stag the market by playing houses. I look at folk in houses that they bought for 150K 15 years ago now worth 800K who have a decade left on repayment mortgages. That could have and should have been perhaps someone like Cliff. He bailed out, greed takes many forms...

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STRenting last August is brilliant timing IMHO. Those who STRent 3-4 years ago have been mugged off. A 25-30% correction will take us back to were we where but ...that hasn't happened yet has it, and the mortgage landscape is going to look very different in a couple of years time, which is IMHO how long any falls of that magnitude will take to occur..

D'ya know who I'm beginning to regard as the real winners in 'playing houses'? Those who didn't play any aspect of the paranoia re 'protection' or attempting to stag the market by playing houses. I look at folk in houses that they bought for 150K 15 years ago now worth 800K who have a decade left on repayment mortgages. That could have and should have been perhaps someone like Cliff. He bailed out, greed takes many forms...

Ok, I thought it was just because your Avatar looks much harder than mine ;)

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Ok, I thought it was just because your Avatar looks much harder than mine ;)

TBH who hasn't (if they've got a bit of equity) thought about STRenting in last six months. House opposite me sold inside 6 weeks for full asking price. New owners have downsized. Thought at the time "that's it, 'tis all downhill from here". Now yes I could have sold up and rented to further protect my 'egg' but wtf, it's home, prices would have to collapse to 1985-90 values before I've got neq. eq. and I probably still wouldn't find anywhere to rent cheaper than the mortgage. Falls by 100K? I'll live with it, may then regret not selling at the top but... My problem with the STR brigade is just how arrogant they were back in 2004-2005 prophesising the end of the property world inside days. Everyone could see the housing market wasn't gonig to turn on a six pence in days, it still fukcin hasn't, some eight months after the credit crunch :blink:

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TBH who hasn't (if they've got a bit of equity) thought about STRenting in last six months. House opposite me sold inside 6 weeks for full asking price. New owners have downsized. Thought at the time "that's it, 'tis all downhill from here". Now yes I could have sold up and rented to further protect my 'egg' but wtf, it's home, prices would have to collapse to 1985-90 values before I've got neq. eq. and I probably still wouldn't find anywhere to rent cheaper than the mortgage. Falls by 100K? I'll live with it, may then regret not selling at the top but... My problem with the STR brigade is just how arrogant they were back in 2004-2005 prophesising the end of the property world inside days. Everyone could see the housing market wasn't gonig to turn on a six pence in days, it still fukcin hasn't, some eight months after the credit crunch :blink:

We were going to move within four years for school reasons anyway. You are quite right a home is a home and I do miss the freedom to smash a wall down or stick posters on my childrens walls. I suppose we all have completely or slightly differing reasons to follow this HPC.

I have posted before that although ( at the moment ) my decision appears to be a good one, well timed. I have plenty of family and friends who will struggle and suffer if my gamble pays off.

We want to move one more time and that house will be my home, probably until I pop off.

I support my oap mum, was educated within the ILEA ( Badly), Have no rich relatives and although I have prospered through employment I will take any extra help/luck available.

I count myself lucky, Just hope my luck holds out...

Bosh

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I like Cliff however, he sold up in 2004, fearing imminent house price collapse, which IMHO makes him less objective than others. He's admitted several times he got his timing badly wrong, which is more than some evangelical STRers have done on 'ere :rolleyes: With hindsight, as prices go back to 2004 levels as a minimum correction, he can perhaps justify his decision, however, he has also admitted that unless prices fall back to that 2004 level he'll struggle to put a 'mortgaged roof' over his family's head for some time. Like many family blokes suddenly STRenting he was quite frankly greedy and stupid in equal measures, the first emotion being his primary motivation.

Frankly, I think you offer some good points. However it depends what he had previously. I sold a flat in early 2005, which looks like a bad desision, to STR. Despite the advertised price increases since then, flats here have not risen, I would say at all.

Therefore I am 40K + interest better off, as well as the "real" price of the house.

If he sold in London, that doesn't wash, he might be considered in trouble. Only time will tell!

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Guest X-QUORK

CL,

Please don't forget that many STR'd because they simply couldn't/wouldn't buy at such inflated prices when they needed a bigger place. Not all of us just sold up on a whim you know.

We sold in the false crash of 2005 and have rented since. C'est la vie. On the plus side I've not been sh*tting myself about a crash for the last 2 years.

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Frankly, I think you offer some good points. However it depends what he had previously. I sold a flat in early 2005, which looks like a bad desision, to STR. Despite the advertised price increases since then, flats here have not risen, I would say at all.

Therefore I am 40K + interest better off, as well as the "real" price of the house.

If he sold in London, that doesn't wash, he might be considered in trouble. Only time will tell!

Indeed. If you sold your Manchester executive apartment 2 years ago, I would think you would be p!ssing yourself, as opposed to sh1tting yourself if you need to sell it now. :)

And tbh if they had let the market go down in '04, or even '02 we wouldn't be in this disastrous situation that we are in now.

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As this thread seems to have morphed into a general discussion on STR, I thought it might be nice to post this comment from the original Fool article:

At 12:33 on March 26 2008, whetley1 said:

I sold my house last August as I was in an incomplete chain but didn't want to lose my buyer so I completed and moved into rented. The chain only became complete for my purchase in January and the legal side of things dragged on until this week when I finally pulled the plug and backed out. I couldn't risk having a 240k mortgage with the prospect of high interest rates and a downturn in my business. So I am sitting pretty more by luck than judgment but it has already been the most unpleasant year of my life and it is still not over as I still have no home but my situation is far rosier than many.

Lucky fellow. I wish I'd been able to time my exit quite as brilliantly as this chap.

What I don't understand, however, is why s/he thinks he has no home when it is patently obvious that s/he is not homeless.

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  • 293 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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