Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
VacantPossession

Hpi: The Message Is Still Not Recognised!

Recommended Posts

The recent decline in banking confidence, the blaming of loose credit and the relentless march of excuses for why we are in this mess continue un-recognised. All the media reports on the credit crunch, profligate banks, bad lenders, bad borrowers, Northern Rock, etc etc fail, by design, to acknowledge the fundamental cause of the current malaise:

Too many ordinary people, speculators, spivs, sharks, get-rich-quick indolent lazy gamblers, desperados, even "nice" grannies looking for a nest egg, have all contributed to where we are now. You cannot exclusively blame banks without blaming the behaviour of individuals. You can't point the finger at this building society or that treasury minister or bank official, without recognising the very basic fact that millions of plain, ordinary people have for the last 10 years got used to the complete fantasy that they could gamble on property without doing any real work and get an instant return without risk.

All the "stabilty" statements of Darling in his budget speech studiously avoid mentioning the real "S" word. I refer, of course, to the word "speculation". He tries to persuade us, as does Gordon Brown, that all this unhappiness is a result of global conditions, banking shortfalls, mortgage defaults and general economic downturns. It is NOT this at all.

The real reason why we are in this mess is that millions, perhaps even hundreds of millions of people the world over, have seen property as the holy grail to cheating the daily reality of their lives and a quick fix to their inability by other more constructive, productive means, to enrich themselves.

This might seem an obvious point to the educated people on this forum, but for every pound made in profit from property, SOMEONE ELSE IS PAYING FOR THAT PROFIT. Property speculation is a "Rob Peter to Pay Paul" proposition; it is merely a transfer of wealth from one speculative group to another: Property can only rise in value because person A persuades person B to dig deeper for a finite asset that HAS NOT CHANGED. The paranoia and fear of being left behind has persuaded huge numbers of not very bright people that unless they slavishly follow this paradigm they really will be left out, and despite the recent about-face in the financial markets, THEY STILL THINK IN THE SAME WAY!

Until the conventional media, the BOE, the city and all the vested interests who want to dupe everyone else into accepting the conventional narrative about property, change their position and start being half honest, we are going to go through endlessly repeated cycles of property booms and slumps, and until someone honest in government or business has the courage to come out and say "property speculation is no different to going to a casino", no lessons will be learned. The only difference between backing a house and backing a horse is that the loss and profit periods play out in differing time spans, but they are similar nonetheless.

It really is time we started putting the blame where it fundamentally exists: If you buy a house for 200k and EXPECT it, as of right, to inflate to 300K in nine months, but without adding value to it by improving it or spending cash on it, then you are a gambler. Multiply that by millions and you get the real picture of where we are now. It is fundamentally NOTHING to do with bank lending, not connected with global production, not connected with environmental disasters, nor is it really connected even with fiscal policy, even though those influences have excascerbated the conditions. It is a DIRECT RESULT of what housing has become: a pyramid selling scam which the cowering man in the street rolls over and accepts, because he is too weak to stand up and say; "I refuse to play this ridiculous game". In failing to do that, the accumulated lack of spine to challenge this ludicrous method of non-productive profit at the expense of someone else's loss (first time buyer), the whole banking system, the housing market, the fundamental economy of two of the richest nations on earth is on the point of collapse. And yet despite this NO-ONE in the media, the government, or in the city has the honesty to stand up and explain why it happened: PERSONAL GREED.

The reason for the "credit crunch" is that houses have become way too expensive compared to disposable income, and they HAVE to come down in price. No amount of interest rate cuts, massaging of facts, obfuscation of fundamentals, or blaming of global conditions, is EVER going to change that.

Happy Easter,

VP

Edited by VacantPossession

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This situation has developed because so many have come to see property as a commodity rather than a necessity.

Commodity prices are driven by supply/demand, speculation and market sentiment.

This is what has happened to housing markets the world over and it isn't supposed to be that way.

However funding is required to purchase any commodity and the grotesque lending practices which many banks have employed to facilitate this boom, are almost entirely responsible for the current situation.

All buyers in the pyramid, from the top down, have been willing [and often unwitting] participants but the lenders have driven this from the start.

Many others (e.g. politicians, regulators) are also guilty of having stood by doing nothing and watched it all happen, often because they have benefitted greatly themselves.

Again though, without the money, this would never have happened...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The recent decline in banking confidence, the blaming of loose credit and the relentless march of excuses for why we are in this mess continue un-recognised. All the media reports on the credit crunch, profligate banks, bad lenders, bad borrowers, Northern Rock, etc etc fail, by design, to acknowledge the fundamental cause of the current malaise:

Too many ordinary people, speculators, spivs, sharks, get-rich-quick indolent lazy gamblers, desperados, even "nice" grannies looking for a nest egg, have all contributed to where we are now. You cannot exclusively blame banks without blaming the behaviour of individuals. You can't point the finger at this building society or that treasury minister or bank official, without recognising the very basic fact that millions of plain, ordinary people have for the last 10 years got used to the complete fantasy that they could gamble on property without doing any real work and get an instant return without risk.

All the "stabilty" statements of Darling in his budget speech studiously avoid mentioning the real "S" word. I refer, of course, to the word "speculation". He tries to persuade us, as does Gordon Brown, that all this unhappiness is a result of global conditions, banking shortfalls, mortgage defaults and general economic downturns. It is NOT this at all.

The real reason why we are in this mess is that millions, perhaps even hundreds of millions of people the world over, have seen property as the holy grail to cheating the daily reality of their lives and a quick fix to their inability by other more constructive, productive means, to enrich themselves.

This might seem an obvious point to the educated people on this forum, but for every pound made in profit from property, SOMEONE ELSE IS PAYING FOR THAT PROFIT. Property speculation is a "Rob Peter to Pay Paul" proposition; it is merely a transfer of wealth from one speculative group to another: Property can only rise in value because person A persuades person B to dig deeper for a finite asset that HAS NOT CHANGED. The paranoia and fear of being left behind has persuaded huge numbers of not very bright people that unless they slavishly follow this paradigm they really will be left out, and despite the recent about-face in the financial markets, THEY STILL THINK IN THE SAME WAY!

Until the conventional media, the BOE, the city and all the vested interests who want to dupe everyone else into accepting the conventional narrative about property, change their position and start being half honest, we are going to go through endlessly repeated cycles of property booms and slumps, and until someone honest in government or business has the courage to come out and say "property speculation is no different to going to a casino", no lessons will be learned. The only difference between backing a house and backing a horse is that the loss and profit periods play out in differing time spans, but they are similar nonetheless.

It really is time we started putting the blame where it fundamentally exists: If you buy a house for 200k and EXPECT it, as of right, to inflate to 300K in nine months, but without adding value to it by improving it or spending cash on it, then you are a gambler. Multiply that by millions and you get the real picture of where we are now. It is fundamentally NOTHING to do with bank lending, not connected with global production, not connected with environmental disasters, nor is it really connected even with fiscal policy, even though those influences have excascerbated the conditions. It is a DIRECT RESULT of what housing has become: a pyramid selling scam which the cowering man in the street rolls over and accepts, because he is too weak to stand up and say; "I refuse to play this ridiculous game". In failing to do that, the accumulated lack of spine to challenge this ludicrous method of non-productive profit at the expense of someone else's loss (first time buyer), the whole banking system, the housing market, the fundamental economy of two of the richest nations on earth is on the point of collapse. And yet despite this NO-ONE in the media, the government, or in the city has the honesty to stand up and explain why it happened: PERSONAL GREED.

The reason for the "credit crunch" is that houses have become way too expensive compared to disposable income, and they HAVE to come down in price. No amount of interest rate cuts, massaging of facts, obfuscation of fundamentals, or blaming of global conditions, is EVER going to change that.

Happy Easter,

VP

u muppet.

firstly house prices are dictated by bank lending.

secondly, in summary of your whole post, have you only just realised that when the price of something goes up, someone else is infact paying you more. nice one. i feel a lot wiser now and will use this information to educate others.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The recent decline in banking confidence, the blaming of loose credit and the relentless march of excuses for why we are in this mess continue un-recognised....

Bravo! Eloquently put.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
millions of plain, ordinary people have for the last 10 years got used to the complete fantasy that they could gamble on property without doing any real work and get an instant return without risk.

Sadly, it hasn't been a complete fantasy. Millions of people have bought property, not done any real work, and got an instant return without risk. The have gambled and won. The clever ones will have cashed in their chips.

Plenty more have gambled more recently and will lose.

Others have not gambled at all - it remains to be seen whether they will win or lose.

I don't believe that you can blame people for wanting to improve their lot in life by by taking advantage of an investment opportunity available to them.

If one's aim however, is a more stable and orderly market in houses for people to own and make a home in, then regulation of the market is needed. Only government can do this.

The existence of a free market in houses and credit is the reason why we have had such speculation and the inevitable bubble - successive governments over the last 20 years are responsible for this.

As for the point that someone else is paying for any profit made in the housing market, I would ask this;

If you buy a house after the crash for 50% of the price it could have commanded at the peak, do you feel responsible for the misery and possible bankruptcy of the poor sap who paid full whack for it a few years previously?

No, of course not...

... it's the market.

Sorry VP, you can't have it all ways.

Edited by Mr Yogi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The situation exists because you have a Labour Government, and its that simple.

New Labour have a mandate to redistribute wealth, by that they dont mean redistributing the wealth of the rich, they mean the wealth of the working classes who have reasonable jobs. In their own words, to redistribute the wealth of the rich would actually bring in very little revenue and would send them scampering offshore.

So in order to bring about these massive changes they required a diversion, and that diversion was House Price Inflation. The public are fickle, for so long as they are on paper making 20k tax free a year on their properties they will ignore what is going on around them, indeed they will have only positive words to say about the party that is in the background furiously working away to destroy the futures of many many future generations.

So what exactly have new Labour been doing whilst we the public have been feasting on house price inflation ?

Well they have taken us into an illegal war, with very little resistance, they have trampled over the Geneva convention, and indeed have now stated its old and out of touch and should be ignored, thus creating a legal path of acceptance to torture and murder.

They have removed the right to free education, and have the public behind them despite the fact that it is the taxpaying public that end up paying twice, once in their paypackets, and again when their children attend full time education.

They have decimated british jobs, with a concerted and totally open assault on the working classes. Jobs have been sent offshore with their blessing, they have created an environment for employers whereby to do business in the UK and employ British Workers becomes a burden of paperwork and legislation, smoothing the path to tapping into the UK's fractured economy and consumers, yet using the protection of offshore status and tax havens. To further decimate the ability of British Workers to earn an honest living they have imported millions of cheap workers, over 750,000 workers from outside the EU came to Britain to work last year alone, this is recognized by an inquiry into the issuing of National Insurance Numbers to Non EU workers. Many will say "Well so what, we work in a global market". Well we actually do not work in a global market, the tax revenue is not collected and shared globally, the public services bill is not paid from a Global Account, the investments in public services is not paid for from a Global account.

In short the British Public have yet to watch their standards fall, and the reason for this is that in essence each and every one of us has been living on debt for a decade. "I dont owe a bean, I am mortgage free and loan free" a very reasonable thought, but shallow.

For those that consider themselves debt free, think again. The Labour Party have borrowed on your behalf to the tune of Billions of pounds, £30,000 for every man women and child in the UK. Take that into account, and take into account your own personal debt and it is clear that despite what on paper looks like a huge gain in assets if you are luck enough to own a property, you have in fact been living on credit, and paying your mortgage interest only on your property.

The British Public are sleepwalking on a path to ruin, and the pied piper continues to play his tune as he walks you to the edge of the abyss.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It took Ben a long time to (officially) recognise the elephant in the room. They now recognise that HPI was the cause behind the ongoing collapse of financial institutions and personal finances.

Gordon will NEVER admit it as his opening statement to the nation in 1997 was a promise not to allow house prices to get out of control. The first admission that he failed will be his last public admission.

We all know it. The banks all know it. The Tories know it. No one is listening to Vince. It will just have to fall to Merv to admit it on all our behalf.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets not think totally that real estate investment is pure gambling. There are certain economic conditions that do make property a good investment. Its the amteurs who jump on the boat too late that suffer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The situation exists because you have a Labour Government, and its that simple.

New Labour have a mandate to redistribute wealth, by that they dont mean redistributing the wealth of the rich, they mean the wealth of the working classes who have reasonable jobs. In their own words, to redistribute the wealth of the rich would actually bring in very little revenue and would send them scampering offshore.

So in order to bring about these massive changes they required a diversion, and that diversion was House Price Inflation. The public are fickle, for so long as they are on paper making 20k tax free a year on their properties they will ignore what is going on around them, indeed they will have only positive words to say about the party that is in the background furiously working away to destroy the futures of many many future generations.

So what exactly have new Labour been doing whilst we the public have been feasting on house price inflation ?

Well they have taken us into an illegal war, with very little resistance, they have trampled over the Geneva convention, and indeed have now stated its old and out of touch and should be ignored, thus creating a legal path of acceptance to torture and murder.

They have removed the right to free education, and have the public behind them despite the fact that it is the taxpaying public that end up paying twice, once in their paypackets, and again when their children attend full time education.

They have decimated british jobs, with a concerted and totally open assault on the working classes. Jobs have been sent offshore with their blessing, they have created an environment for employers whereby to do business in the UK and employ British Workers becomes a burden of paperwork and legislation, smoothing the path to tapping into the UK's fractured economy and consumers, yet using the protection of offshore status and tax havens. To further decimate the ability of British Workers to earn an honest living they have imported millions of cheap workers, over 750,000 workers from outside the EU came to Britain to work last year alone, this is recognized by an inquiry into the issuing of National Insurance Numbers to Non EU workers. Many will say "Well so what, we work in a global market". Well we actually do not work in a global market, the tax revenue is not collected and shared globally, the public services bill is not paid from a Global Account, the investments in public services is not paid for from a Global account.

In short the British Public have yet to watch their standards fall, and the reason for this is that in essence each and every one of us has been living on debt for a decade. "I dont owe a bean, I am mortgage free and loan free" a very reasonable thought, but shallow.

For those that consider themselves debt free, think again. The Labour Party have borrowed on your behalf to the tune of Billions of pounds, £30,000 for every man women and child in the UK. Take that into account, and take into account your own personal debt and it is clear that despite what on paper looks like a huge gain in assets if you are luck enough to own a property, you have in fact been living on credit, and paying your mortgage interest only on your property.

The British Public are sleepwalking on a path to ruin, and the pied piper continues to play his tune as he walks you to the edge of the abyss.

VP's point is fair, because personal greed HAS played a part in the creation of this speculative bubble and he is right in saying that the media has so far not acknowledged this fact. I think this greed is what Isaac Newton referred to as the "madness in people" which he couldn't account for when referring to the losses he incurred in the "South Sea Bubble" two centuries ago. However, I agree with the other posters that this greediness has only been able to get out of control because of the failure of other parts of the system which were supposed to keep it in check.

I think your observations on the way HPI has been exploited by politicians and VIs are apt and worrying. My concern is what will happen once the "gains" under HPI are wiped out under GC2 and people see how far their standards have fallen. In two years' time this is likely to be clear to many more people and I suspect they will hit the politicians (a group already being targeted in the media) hard at the next GE. You are already beginning to see signs that the newspapers are turning and even the BBC will turn once it is clear that Labour won't win and they need to curry favour with the next government. I fear there might be a backlash and we might see significant levels of political instability resulting from it - it is not easy to predict just how the "madness" of people will express itself if we enter a serious recession or a depression.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
VP's point is fair, because personal greed HAS played a part in the creation of this speculative bubble and he is right in saying that the media has so far not acknowledged this fact. I think this greed is what Isaac Newton referred to as the "madness in people" which he couldn't account for when referring to the losses he incurred in the "South Sea Bubble" two centuries ago. However, I agree with the other posters that this greediness has only been able to get out of control because of the failure of other parts of the system which were supposed to keep it in check.

snip

The gamblers greed was fed, encouraged and nurtured by the financial community who INVENTED ways to circumvent sensible lending through existing capital adequacy lending limits, ignored by a government who benefited greatly with all the feelgood generated by people gaining "wealth".

without the support, the gambling would not have been possible. It was ever thus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't believe that you can blame people for wanting to improve their lot in life by by taking advantage of an investment opportunity available to them.

Like those chavs storming that ATM in Hull, you mean.

Investment opportunity my foot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The gamblers greed was fed, encouraged and nurtured by the financial community who INVENTED ways to circumvent sensible lending through existing capital adequacy lending limits, ignored by a government who benefited greatly with all the feelgood generated by people gaining "wealth".

without the support, the gambling would not have been possible. It was ever thus.

Depressing (but true) what you say and therefore, difficult to think this will be the last speculative bubble. However, government should not have ignored what was going on during the period of HPI and anger will probably be vented more at the politicians than the banks once things take a nasty dive over the next couple of years. It will not just be the greedy through the period of HPI who are going to suffer in the fallout. I am not convinced that the Labour Party is going to survive the backlash this time around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Depressing (but true) what you say and therefore, difficult to think this will be the last speculative bubble. However, government should not have ignored what was going on during the period of HPI and anger will probably be vented more at the politicians than the banks once things take a nasty dive over the next couple of years. It will not just be the greedy through the period of HPI who are going to suffer in the fallout. I am not convinced that the Labour Party is going to survive the backlash this time around.

Perfect timing by tony bliar- i think it will be revealed, that he knew exactly when to go- just as things were on the turn, before the sheeple realised.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest KingCharles1st
The recent decline in banking confidence, the blaming of loose credit and the relentless march of excuses for why we are in this mess continue un-recognised. All the media reports on the credit crunch, profligate banks, bad lenders, bad borrowers, Northern Rock, etc etc fail, by design, to acknowledge the fundamental cause of the current malaise:

Too many ordinary people, speculators, spivs, sharks, get-rich-quick indolent lazy gamblers, desperados, even "nice" grannies looking for a nest egg, have all contributed to where we are now. You cannot exclusively blame banks without blaming the behaviour of individuals. You can't point the finger at this building society or that treasury minister or bank official, without recognising the very basic fact that millions of plain, ordinary people have for the last 10 years got used to the complete fantasy that they could gamble on property without doing any real work and get an instant return without risk.

All the "stabilty" statements of Darling in his budget speech studiously avoid mentioning the real "S" word. I refer, of course, to the word "speculation". He tries to persuade us, as does Gordon Brown, that all this unhappiness is a result of global conditions, banking shortfalls, mortgage defaults and general economic downturns. It is NOT this at all.

The real reason why we are in this mess is that millions, perhaps even hundreds of millions of people the world over, have seen property as the holy grail to cheating the daily reality of their lives and a quick fix to their inability by other more constructive, productive means, to enrich themselves.

This might seem an obvious point to the educated people on this forum, but for every pound made in profit from property, SOMEONE ELSE IS PAYING FOR THAT PROFIT. Property speculation is a "Rob Peter to Pay Paul" proposition; it is merely a transfer of wealth from one speculative group to another: Property can only rise in value because person A persuades person B to dig deeper for a finite asset that HAS NOT CHANGED. The paranoia and fear of being left behind has persuaded huge numbers of not very bright people that unless they slavishly follow this paradigm they really will be left out, and despite the recent about-face in the financial markets, THEY STILL THINK IN THE SAME WAY!

Until the conventional media, the BOE, the city and all the vested interests who want to dupe everyone else into accepting the conventional narrative about property, change their position and start being half honest, we are going to go through endlessly repeated cycles of property booms and slumps, and until someone honest in government or business has the courage to come out and say "property speculation is no different to going to a casino", no lessons will be learned. The only difference between backing a house and backing a horse is that the loss and profit periods play out in differing time spans, but they are similar nonetheless.

It really is time we started putting the blame where it fundamentally exists: If you buy a house for 200k and EXPECT it, as of right, to inflate to 300K in nine months, but without adding value to it by improving it or spending cash on it, then you are a gambler. Multiply that by millions and you get the real picture of where we are now. It is fundamentally NOTHING to do with bank lending, not connected with global production, not connected with environmental disasters, nor is it really connected even with fiscal policy, even though those influences have excascerbated the conditions. It is a DIRECT RESULT of what housing has become: a pyramid selling scam which the cowering man in the street rolls over and accepts, because he is too weak to stand up and say; "I refuse to play this ridiculous game". In failing to do that, the accumulated lack of spine to challenge this ludicrous method of non-productive profit at the expense of someone else's loss (first time buyer), the whole banking system, the housing market, the fundamental economy of two of the richest nations on earth is on the point of collapse. And yet despite this NO-ONE in the media, the government, or in the city has the honesty to stand up and explain why it happened: PERSONAL GREED.

The reason for the "credit crunch" is that houses have become way too expensive compared to disposable income, and they HAVE to come down in price. No amount of interest rate cuts, massaging of facts, obfuscation of fundamentals, or blaming of global conditions, is EVER going to change that.

Happy Easter,

VP

I would totally and utterly agree with you up until one very significant point is left out-

Unfortunately, new and first time buyers can only buy a house that is being SOLD- they cannot really build their own place- a total and utter shame.

And the extension of this fact is that the FTB is at the utter mercy of the market and HAS to pay the inflated price- thereby perpetuating the fallacy.

Housing is controlled by the government- they like what they see and the juicy backhanders they get from the developers, the green belt needs to be dug up and built on now- first timers need FREEDOM to be part of the solution- not have to pay through the nose to become another little piece of the problem- this country and its planning laws suck big time...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Perfect timing by tony bliar- i think it will be revealed, that he knew exactly when to go- just as things were on the turn, before the sheeple realised.

Actually he wasn't shrewd, just lucky - he was compelled to leave when he did. Of course the PR-savvy New Labour machine learned a trick or two from the utter fiasco of 22 November 1990 and managed to engineer it by quiet pressure behind the scenes - but engineer it they did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Housing is controlled by the government- they like what they see and the juicy backhanders they get from the developers, the green belt needs to be dug up and built on now- first timers need FREEDOM to be part of the solution- not have to pay through the nose to become another little piece of the problem- this country and its planning laws suck big time...

I totally disagree. I like the fact that Britain has green spaces.

Just because you can pay to build something doesn't mean you should be alllowed to. People who have no money have as much right to decide on what happens to the land as people who have enough to buy it. Green belt and planning laws (however imperfect they are) are recognitions of this moral truth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Actually he wasn't shrewd, just lucky - he was compelled to leave when he did. Of course the PR-savvy New Labour machine learned a trick or two from the utter fiasco of 22 November 1990 and managed to engineer it by quiet pressure behind the scenes - but engineer it they did.

In what way was he compelled, apart from his stupid announcement a couple of years before- is there a hidden skeleton we should know about?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The reason for the "credit crunch" is that houses have become way too expensive compared to disposable income, and they HAVE to come down in price. No amount of interest rate cuts, massaging of facts, obfuscation of fundamentals, or blaming of global conditions, is EVER going to change that.

Happy Easter,

VP

NAIL ON THE HEAD VP............. certainly in that last sentence. But I am absolutely clear that the CORRUPT MONEYLENDING we've seen in the past decade in particular is the ABSOLUTE 100% KEY to HPI..... and millions of peoples' misery....

Edited by eric pebble

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, house prices do not HAVE to come down just because you are desperate for that to happen! It is far more likely that 2008 will see flat prices.

The recent decline in banking confidence, the blaming of loose credit and the relentless march of excuses for why we are in this mess continue un-recognised. All the media reports on the credit crunch, profligate banks, bad lenders, bad borrowers, Northern Rock, etc etc fail, by design, to acknowledge the fundamental cause of the current malaise:

Too many ordinary people, speculators, spivs, sharks, get-rich-quick indolent lazy gamblers, desperados, even "nice" grannies looking for a nest egg, have all contributed to where we are now. You cannot exclusively blame banks without blaming the behaviour of individuals. You can't point the finger at this building society or that treasury minister or bank official, without recognising the very basic fact that millions of plain, ordinary people have for the last 10 years got used to the complete fantasy that they could gamble on property without doing any real work and get an instant return without risk.

All the "stabilty" statements of Darling in his budget speech studiously avoid mentioning the real "S" word. I refer, of course, to the word "speculation". He tries to persuade us, as does Gordon Brown, that all this unhappiness is a result of global conditions, banking shortfalls, mortgage defaults and general economic downturns. It is NOT this at all.

The real reason why we are in this mess is that millions, perhaps even hundreds of millions of people the world over, have seen property as the holy grail to cheating the daily reality of their lives and a quick fix to their inability by other more constructive, productive means, to enrich themselves.

This might seem an obvious point to the educated people on this forum, but for every pound made in profit from property, SOMEONE ELSE IS PAYING FOR THAT PROFIT. Property speculation is a "Rob Peter to Pay Paul" proposition; it is merely a transfer of wealth from one speculative group to another: Property can only rise in value because person A persuades person B to dig deeper for a finite asset that HAS NOT CHANGED. The paranoia and fear of being left behind has persuaded huge numbers of not very bright people that unless they slavishly follow this paradigm they really will be left out, and despite the recent about-face in the financial markets, THEY STILL THINK IN THE SAME WAY!

Until the conventional media, the BOE, the city and all the vested interests who want to dupe everyone else into accepting the conventional narrative about property, change their position and start being half honest, we are going to go through endlessly repeated cycles of property booms and slumps, and until someone honest in government or business has the courage to come out and say "property speculation is no different to going to a casino", no lessons will be learned. The only difference between backing a house and backing a horse is that the loss and profit periods play out in differing time spans, but they are similar nonetheless.

It really is time we started putting the blame where it fundamentally exists: If you buy a house for 200k and EXPECT it, as of right, to inflate to 300K in nine months, but without adding value to it by improving it or spending cash on it, then you are a gambler. Multiply that by millions and you get the real picture of where we are now. It is fundamentally NOTHING to do with bank lending, not connected with global production, not connected with environmental disasters, nor is it really connected even with fiscal policy, even though those influences have excascerbated the conditions. It is a DIRECT RESULT of what housing has become: a pyramid selling scam which the cowering man in the street rolls over and accepts, because he is too weak to stand up and say; "I refuse to play this ridiculous game". In failing to do that, the accumulated lack of spine to challenge this ludicrous method of non-productive profit at the expense of someone else's loss (first time buyer), the whole banking system, the housing market, the fundamental economy of two of the richest nations on earth is on the point of collapse. And yet despite this NO-ONE in the media, the government, or in the city has the honesty to stand up and explain why it happened: PERSONAL GREED.

The reason for the "credit crunch" is that houses have become way too expensive compared to disposable income, and they HAVE to come down in price. No amount of interest rate cuts, massaging of facts, obfuscation of fundamentals, or blaming of global conditions, is EVER going to change that.

Happy Easter,

VP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good post there by VP.

Actually where VP compares houses to race horses that's given me an idea for a new business - one that actually makes and sells things. House nameplates where the names are from race-horses.

I'd set a up a website that embossed - on a plate of your choosing - a randomly generated race horse name like 'tulip maniac', 'south sea tsunami' or 'feral reserve'.

Edited by nmarks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest KingCharles1st
I totally disagree. I like the fact that Britain has green spaces.

Just because you can pay to build something doesn't mean you should be alllowed to. People who have no money have as much right to decide on what happens to the land as people who have enough to buy it. Green belt and planning laws (however imperfect they are) are recognitions of this moral truth.

Well we will have to agree to differ- you like things the way they are- I don't. WHY can't someone build the home they want- now I'm not saying they should be allowed to build ANYWHERE- but why shouldn't people be allowed to build their OWN homes on land parcelled and apporved for development- as opposed to have some crappy VI developer make more rubbish eggboxes retailing at 2-3 times the materials cost of a similar- and slightly more sensiblyproportioned dwelling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In what way was he compelled, apart from his stupid announcement a couple of years before- is there a hidden skeleton we should know about?

Could be.

http://www.spearhead.com/0409-jt1.html

You may also recall what was suggested on here about his successor a few months ago.

Remember, this is the government that stole another few billions from you in the Great Buggery Bonanza of December 2005.

Join the dots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Could be.

http://www.spearhead.com/0409-jt1.html

You may also recall what was suggested on here about his successor a few months ago.

Remember, this is the government that stole another few billions from you in the Great Buggery Bonanza of December 2005.

Join the dots.

Happy Scots, the lot of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 294 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.