Conservatives Family Policy

[Guest Skint Academic]

I dont think Gay is learnt behaviour, its simply a mental illness that is maybe a fault in the genetic makeup of a person.

I am sure that over time, and with an understanding of genetics becoming more and more commonplace there will be a time when the sick can be treated with a certain degree of certainty. I suppose in the meantime it would be mean to deprive them of their sexual antics by law, however it would be wrong to consider it normal as over time it will be treated with hopefully 100% success rate by modern science.

Are you trolling again or do you genuinely believe that? You had been doing so well recently until this comment.

[Doom Lord]

Really, how strange.

If you call being a teacher, listening to radio 4, taking your son to football\rugby training and living in a three bedroom house in suburbia strange, then yes it's a very strange lifestyle indeed.

Are you happy in your marriage ?

[laurejon]

If you call being a teacher, listening to radio 4, taking your son to football\rugby training and living in a three bedroom house in suburbia strange, then yes it's a very strange lifestyle indeed.

Hmmm, you would appear to be a normal well balanced person given the above but there does appear to be a problem that is deep rooted and somewhat bizzare.

A Gay Couple adopting a child you feel could have exactly the same realationship as a normal family.

I think you might consider some life coaching, there are some great people around and its not prohibitively expensive.

[laurejon]

Are you trolling again or do you genuinely believe that? You had been doing so well recently until this comment.

I was laying it on a bit thick, however I do thin its a genetic fault and not something that is learnt behaviour.

What are your views on the subject, learnt or genetic fault ?

[RightToExistInASpace]

So if a man and a woman cannot have a child and they adopt one, can they have a normal family life?

My friend is a lesbian, she has a son from a previous relationship but now lives with her female partner. I can assure you that thier family life is no different to the one I have with my wife and son.

That statement is pretty meaningless. Everything is identical? No differences at all?

That kind of statement just smacks of that liberal "no need to give it any thought, let's just all be happy becuase ultimately we're all the same, right?" mentality. The very reason why this society has been sleepwalking into collapse for the last 30 years and why we'll be in perpetual tribal warfare whilst shining the shoes of the chinese before 2030.

Happiness and being unconditionally content with those around you - the liberal malaise - is just a symptom of ignorance or the choice simply not to analyse anything that might make you uncomfortable. These people are the easiest to manipulate via the lies and deceit of controlling governments.

[Doom Lord]

Hmmm, you would appear to be a normal well balanced person given the above but there does appear to be a problem that is deep rooted and somewhat bizzare.

A Gay Couple adopting a child you feel could have exactly the same realationship as a normal family.

Whats a normal family? I have had friends that have:

Lived in foster homes and have been raped by the people who are looking after them.

Who's fathers are drunks and used beat them up.

fathers work away from home for 8 months a year.

Who parents send them away to boarding school so they never see them.

I think you might consider some life coaching, there are some great people around and its not prohibitively expensive.

Maybe you could give me some lessons I hear you have a pretty good setup

[Doom Lord]

That statement is pretty meaningless. Everything is identical? No differences at all?

That kind of statement just smacks of that liberal "no need to give it any thought, let's just all be happy becuase ultimately we're all the same, right?" mentality. The very reason why this society has been sleepwalking into collapse for the last 30 years and why we'll be in perpetual tribal warfare whilst shining the shoes of the chinese before 2030.

Happiness and being unconditionally content with those around you - the liberal malaise - is just a symptom of ignorance or the choice simply not to analyse anything that might make you uncomfortable. These people are the easiest to manipulate via the lies and deceit of controlling governments.

That the point though, no family is Identical in the way they bring up thier children.

I have thought about this and it's not liberalism. There are already plenty of same sex couples bringing up children and they are doing a perfectly good job. Why should't a same sex couple be able to go down the adoption route? Homosexuality is not illegal so how can we discriminate against a couple who could pass the adoption critera? It's not like they just give a child to anyone. The adoption critera should be able to stand up on it's own merit. If it cant then the critera for adoption needs amending.

If staight people are so fantastic at bringing up children then why are these children being put up for adoption in the first place?

[laurejon]

That the point though, no family is Identical in the way they bring up thier children.

I have thought about this and it's not liberalism. There are already plenty of same sex couples bringing up children and they are doing a perfectly good job. Why should't a same sex couple be able to go down the adoption route? Homosexuality is not illegal so how can we discriminate against a couple who could pass the adoption critera? It's not like they just give a child to anyone. The adoption critera should be able to stand up on it's own merit. If it cant then the critera for adoption needs amending.

If staight people are so fantastic at bringing up children then why are these children being put up for adoption in the first place?

Why cant they just be happy with one another ?

They are both genetic mutants, why on earth bring a healthy child into the equation. I would guess that Gay people have had to go through a lot of emotional problems, and probably never fully get over it. Is that the basis for bringing up a child, when there are many many perfectly healthy couples that are happy to adopt children ?

[Doom Lord]

Why cant they just be happy with one another ?

They are both genetic mutants, why on earth bring a healthy child into the equation. I would guess that Gay people have had to go through a lot of emotional problems, and probably never fully get over it. Is that the basis for bringing up a child, when there are many many perfectly healthy couples that are happy to adopt children ?

So by your thinking people are born Gay because of their genetic makeup. Therefore you will have the situation where gay babies are being adopted by a staight couple. So I ask you "Would a straight couple be able to give a gay child a better upbringing than a gay couple?"

[laurejon]

So by your thinking people are born Gay because of their genetic makeup. Therefore you will have the situation where gay babies are being adopted by a staight couple. So I ask you "Would a straight couple be able to give a gay child a better upbringing than a gay couple?"

I would suggest that a gay couple would be better placed to bring a gay child up, and prepare it for its place in society.

However it is difficult to establish the sexuality of a child as they exhibit behaviour that changes upon reaching puberty.

It could be possible that it is at this time the gene responsible for the change to adulthood goes pear shaped ?

[Guest anorthosite]

Why does sexuality even have to be an issue here?

[laurejon]

Why does sexuality even have to be an issue here?

Because we all have traits of our parents, its how we learn.

How many of us in our teens looked at our parents as the oldies, and argued with them on just about everything, then later in life how many of us see our thoughts and views, our characteristics, as being decidedly similar to our parents ?

Its a real lifecycle, what we learn we pass onto our children, they in turn pass it on to theirs.

Our sexuality is derived from our parents, children from homes where the parents show their emotions to one another in front of the children, create children that are better balanced to handle emotion than parents who came themselves from strict victorian upbringing families whereby "Men do not Cry" "Men do not show emotion in public".

I am not suggesting that these children would be scarred for life if they were brought up by a Gay Couple, and I would agree that there are far worst straight couples bringing up children today, that shouldnt be.

But its important to try to give a child every opportunity in life you can, the odds as we all know are stacked firmly against us as it is, my view is to put the needs of the child over the emotional needs of the adoptive parents.

[Guest anorthosite]

Because we all have traits of our parents, its how we learn.

How many of us in our teens looked at our parents as the oldies, and argued with them on just about everything, then later in life how many of us see our thoughts and views, our characteristics, as being decidedly similar to our parents ?

Its a real lifecycle, what we learn we pass onto our children, they in turn pass it on to theirs.

Our sexuality is derived from our parents, children from homes where the parents show their emotions to one another in front of the children, create children that are better balanced to handle emotion than parents who came themselves from strict victorian upbringing families whereby "Men do not Cry" "Men do not show emotion in public".

I am not suggesting that these children would be scarred for life if they were brought up by a Gay Couple, and I would agree that there are far worst straight couples bringing up children today, that shouldnt be.

But its important to try to give a child every opportunity in life you can, the odds as we all know are stacked firmly against us as it is, my view is to put the needs of the child over the emotional needs of the adoptive parents.

If sexuality was derived from parents then there wouldn't be any homosexuality. Or are you talking genetically?

As far as I'm aware there is no consensus on what defines someone's sexuality, but if you have any evidence to back that statement up, please do.

You admit that children won't be scarred by being raised by gays, so what's the problem?

[laurejon]

If sexuality was derived from parents then there wouldn't be any homosexuality. Or are you talking genetically?

As far as I'm aware there is no consensus on what defines someone's sexuality, but if you have any evidence to back that statement up, please do.

You admit that children won't be scarred by being raised by gays, so what's the problem?

I think the problem is that the parents have made a concerted decision to live in a manner that is not normal to society.

The child has not had the opportunity to be asked the question.

If there were millions of children unwanted, then needs must, but as it stands today there are many childless Hetrosexual couples that would dearly love to adopt a child in the UK.

I know that I would not like to have come from Gay parents, going through the school system with Gay Parents cannot be easy for any child.

[Guest anorthosite]

I think the problem is that the parents have made a concerted decision to live in a manner that is not normal to society.

Please provide proof that sexuality is chosen. Also define what isn't normal. Do they have normal jobs? Do they have a normal financial situation? If the only thing that isn't normal is what they do behind closed doors away from the children, then what's the problem.

The child has not had the opportunity to be asked the question.

What question?

If there were millions of children unwanted, then needs must, but as it stands today there are many childless Hetrosexual couples that would dearly love to adopt a child in the UK.

So why do children remain in care?

I know that I would not like to have come from Gay parents, going through the school system with Gay Parents cannot be easy for any child.

Why not? Being in an orphanage sounds worse to me.

[The Hooded C law]

Please provide proof that sexuality is chosen. Also define what isn't normal. Do they have normal jobs? Do they have a normal financial situation? If the only thing that isn't normal is what they do behind closed doors away from the children, then what's the problem.

What question?

So why do children remain in care?

Why not? Being in an orphanage sounds worse to me.

I think that sexuality is strongly moulded by social norms. In societies which practiced Pederasty such as the Ancient Athenians or the modern Papuans bisexuality seems to have been regarded as normal at least within a specific social context.

My own opinion is that there are few people who are exclusively heterosexual or homosexual without a strong guiding cultural influence.

Without a guiding cultural influence most people would be neutral on the Kinsey scale IMHO.

[laurejon]

Please provide proof that sexuality is chosen. Also define what isn't normal. Do they have normal jobs? Do they have a normal financial situation? If the only thing that isn't normal is what they do behind closed doors away from the children, then what's the problem.

What question?

So why do children remain in care?

Why not? Being in an orphanage sounds worse to me.

Children remain in care because politically correct social workers who's only experience in life is to experiment in hallucigenic drugs at Uni, and get p1ssed in the Union Bar. The allocation of needy children should be addressed by those with real life skills, having children themselves might be a helpfull for a start.

[laurejon]

Please provide proof that sexuality is chosen. Also define what isn't normal. Do they have normal jobs? Do they have a normal financial situation? If the only thing that isn't normal is what they do behind closed doors away from the children, then what's the problem.

What question?

So why do children remain in care?

Why not? Being in an orphanage sounds worse to me.

Agreed, and orphanage would be a worst option.

But as previously stated, if they can be given to a loving couple of hetro's that are solvent, that can provide the support a child needs to develop and enter the world of adulthood then that is better.

[Guest anorthosite]

Agreed, and orphanage would be a worst option.

But as previously stated, if they can be given to a loving couple of hetro's that are solvent, that can provide the support a child needs to develop and enter the world of adulthood then that is better.

The fact that children do live in care suggest there aren't enough heterosexual couples.

What about "normal" couple where one is bi?

[laurejon]

The fact that children do live in care suggest there aren't enough heterosexual couples.

What about "normal" couple where one is bi?

Well they would not be normal if one is bi.

I dont have any issues with Gay people, have come across many over the years. Some have made a change in sexuality, others are happy to live as same sex partners. What I have noticed is that many have issues, the ones I knew who worked on the airlines were very promiscuous, others I knew were seeing psychiatrists and were pretty mixed up with their lives.

I am not damming Gay people, they are human beings and they are to be respected irrespective of their sexuality, but I do think they are not well places to adopt children.

[Doom Lord]

Well they would not be normal if one is bi.

I dont have any issues with Gay people, have come across many over the years. Some have made a change in sexuality, others are happy to live as same sex partners. What I have noticed is that many have issues, the ones I knew who worked on the airlines were very promiscuous, others I knew were seeing psychiatrists and were pretty mixed up with their lives.

I think these points you bring up are totally valid points to raise about the unsuitability of a couple to adopt a child but your observations could equally apply to stright people.

It is the adoption criteria that needs to be strong enough so as not to let children go to couples that are not suitable regardless of sexuality.

[Guest Skint Academic]

I was laying it on a bit thick, however I do thin its a genetic fault and not something that is learnt behaviour.

What are your views on the subject, learnt or genetic fault ?

Again you are being provocative by calling it a fault. This shows your inherent homophobia. Let me ask you a few questions.

1) Did you decide to be heterosexual?

2) Did you decide not to be homosexual?

3) Did you develop heterosexual feelings regardless of choice?

If you naturally developed as a heterosexual without any choice in the matter, then why assume that homosexuals choose to be this way? Consider that almost without exception every homosexual person will tell you that they had no choice in the matter (many will wish they did have a choice in the matter). I have only ever met one person who questioned this and she struck me as a repressed bisexual.

One theory I have on why we have a certain number of homosexuals has been expressed in the post below. It's worth bearing in mind that humans and society naturally like to classify things as one or another and that this skews the perception of homosexual tendencies throughout society.

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...st&p=957671

There are many theories about homosexuality from an evolutionary point of view. No one knows for sure. My personal theory is it is a result of us not having a direct 1:1 mapping between genotype (our DNA) and phenotype (each individual human). So basically if you could implant the exact same DNA into a woman's egg each time she got pregnant, her resulting children wouldn't be clones of each other. They'd all come out different (twins are born together and therefore are subject to the same environmental conditions).

This makes sense if you see evolution as a search for the fittest genotype for the given environment. We know from artificial evolution that if you don't apply any natural selection, the population will still converge upon the same set of genes. It relies on the mutation of new genes to continue the search. Having a 1:many mapping between genotype to phenotype could allow the population to explore a greater number of possibilities for any given genotype.

So, with regard to homosexuality. Although most people are clearly male, or clearly female, some people are more male or more female than others. Whilst some inhabit the middle ground, or are male or female in different ways. The foetus is subjected to different hormonal washes in the womb. These influence how each part of the embryo brain develops, whether a boy or a girl is born for example (we all start off as female in the womb). Women commonly have a larger corpus collosum than men for example (the neural tissue that connects the two hemispheres of the brain). But if you don't, that doesn't mean to say that you aren't a woman. My personal theory is that homosexuality comes about as a result of this hormonal wash in the womb that we are all subjected to as embryos. It is the very process that allows us to evolve that will always produce a certain number of homosexuals in any given population.

[Guest Skint Academic]

They are both genetic mutants, why on earth bring a healthy child into the equation. I would guess that Gay people have had to go through a lot of emotional problems, and probably never fully get over it. Is that the basis for bringing up a child, when there are many many perfectly healthy couples that are happy to adopt children ?

Genetic mutants = trolling again. Are you repressing something Laurejon?

What doesn't break you, makes you. When you have had to fight for a normal life you really appreciate what matters in the world. That strength can be taught to the child.

Gay couples can be healthy as well? Or do you mean heterosexual? Are there really that many heterosexual couples willing to adopt? many do not consider adopting because it won't be there own genes that they are looking after.

[Guest Skint Academic]

I think that sexuality is strongly moulded by social norms. In societies which practiced Pederasty such as the Ancient Athenians or the modern Papuans bisexuality seems to have been regarded as normal at least within a specific social context.

Doesn't this suggest that we all have bisexual tendencies to a lesser or greater extent but this current society requires us to repress them? This would explain the rise of homophobia as people feel threatened by openly gay people. After all, we know from experiments that the most homophobic people actually get turned on more by homosexual images than those who are more tolerant.

[scarlets79]

If sexuality was derived from parents then there wouldn't be any homosexuality. Or are you talking genetically?

that's right, no one is born that way, they choose to be that way