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At What Point Do Banks Start Getting Evil?

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couldnt agree more,small businesses are the most exposed in a downtrun.Looking around,it seems to em,that there are more people involved in making sandwiches than ever before.first thing to reappear in a recession is the lunch box.

Could this be Linford Christie's great come back then?

Frank

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couldnt agree more,small businesses are the most exposed in a downtrun.Looking around,it seems to em,that there are more people involved in making sandwiches than ever before.first thing to reappear in a recession is the lunch box.

OT... but you've just reminded me of summat.

Something's been bugging me about the last recession. No, not an economic something, but a satirical comedy thing. I cannot for the life of me remember what programme it was in, but does anyone remember the it's-all-gone-to-pot-type-song which featured a woman walking round an empty open plan office singing "Who will buy my quiche today?".

Sorry about that. It's been bugging me for a while.

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And hem lines start getting lower :(

That whole thing is just rubbish though, isn't it?

You see a trend that looks like it matches another trend a little bit and come to a conclusion.

The other one is that in the good times we move away from traditional religion and towards more whacky stuff (scientology, epidemiology to name but 2) and then in the bad times, we all go back to the church.

Don't be fooled into thinking that a coincidence hs some underlying cause.

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I was speaking to someone in retail over the weekend and he told me that suppliers are tightening up credit terms, so it may be indirect at the moment but it has the same effect. I doubt whether the banks are being sympathetic to assist small firms with cash-flow issues.

p-o-p

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That whole thing is just rubbish though, isn't it?

You see a trend that looks like it matches another trend a little bit and come to a conclusion.

The other one is that in the good times we move away from traditional religion and towards more whacky stuff (scientology, epidemiology to name but 2) and then in the bad times, we all go back to the church.

Don't be fooled into thinking that a coincidence hs some underlying cause.

Thank you for that sobering thought.

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Two words in aswer to the original question on this thread;

Margin Calls.

When these happen, you can be certain that the banks have fully switched in to Evil Mode as opposed to the current Let's Pretend We're Not Evil Mode.

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Thank you for that sobering thought.

More importantly, how soon will they start slashing dividends?

I get yourself over to III.co.uk discussion forums for individual shares. You wont believe it. THere are still NRK.L shareholders insisting that they re going to get 80p a share.

Would anybody really want to discuss their salary or income with what is in effect a government employee to secure a mortgage? I know that I wouldn't.

OT - What would happen to the short positions if NRK were to re-list in the future @ 500p for example. Would shorters be obliged to honour their position?

ROFL!!!!! :lol::lol::lol:

interesting quotes

HBOS Shares Forum Thursday :

"At 1636 today a buy of £14,252,118.00 was shown. Can anyone say who the buyer might have been. I hope it is a sign of a turn in the share as I bought in earlier today feeling the share was being over sold for no fair reason. "
"The almost 10% will do for me.

Its covered twice and i expect 50p divi next year. Thats 9%.

If we get growth well fine. If not who cares.

Tiger "

Oh, and this little Golden nugget of info:

HBOS must be desparate,in the AGENDA for their AGM it says they are issuing 400 million new Preference Shares denominated in Japanese YEN !!!

(Caveat Emptor)

Its amazing what you pick up from over there. How about this:

Rock guarantees charity donations

The Northern Rock banks was nationalised on 21 February

The charitable arm of Northern Rock has increased its grants budget by £4m following the bank's nationalisation.

Northern Rock Foundation made the decision after verifying that the bank would continue donations.

Up to December 2007, Northern Rock gave 5% of its annual pre-tax profits to the foundation and has now guaranteed a minimum of £15m per year until 2010.

The charity will provide £11m or more to voluntary organisations in the North East and Cumbria in 2008.

Last year, the foundation set an initially cautious budget of £7m, which has now been increased to £11m.

Alastair Balls, Chairman of Northern Rock Foundation, said: "We now know that there will be a continued donation from Northern Rock under its new ownership arrangements.

"This is excellent news which means we can increase our grant-making plans, initially by a further £4m.

Credit crunch

"We will announce how that additional funding will be allocated in May. In the meantime, we continue to tackle disadvantage through our investments in the hard work and creativity of voluntary organisations throughout our region."

Organisations set to benefit this year include Tyneside Rape Crisis Centre, Hartlepool Parents in Need of Support, Barnardo's, Care In Durham and DiGS (Cumbria) Ltd, which helps homeless people into accommodation.

The foundation has given almost £200m to organisations across the region since 1997.

The Rock hit trouble last year as it was ill-prepared for the credit crunch.

It was nationalised on 21 February and all shares in Northern Rock handed over to the Treasery.

* One side govt saying NRK is not a going concern. Than how can do the charity. I guess govt forget the basic lingo " Charity begins at Home "

:blink::blink: Yeah, your going to have to donate more than 11 Million to the benfits-hungry northeast to appease the 6500 potential homeowners (with northern rock loans) that just lost their jobs this morning. Corrupt as you like! :angry:

My whole point is this: there are A SH*T LOAD of investors that are holding out for 10% dividends. Well, HBOS lost that IN ONE MORNING!!! :lol:

I think we are at teh bow of a very very large wave...

Lets wait and see what happens once divis get cut... ;)

Edited by mbga9pgf

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I can't help thinking that the money that would be raised by squeezing small businesses is so small that it won't make any difference to the banks' balance sheets at the moment.

There are a few more acts to play out in this drama yet.

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I have to take issue with the title to your thread. Are and always will be would be better. Umbrellas being taken away as we speak.

I wonder if this is the 'silent death' that dare not be spoken of :unsure: It defies all reason that if banks are hoarding they're not calling in loans left, right and straight for the jugular. They'll surely have all the intelligence at their fingertips regarding all the poor ickle business set up over the past 7 years that have only gone forward based on borrowings versus home equity. Even looking at my local high street I look at all the clone wanabee restaurants (kept alive by ego and pretence) selling cloned homogenous food and know so many are on respirator and that's just local retail :o

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I wonder if this is the 'silent death' that dare not be spoken of :unsure: It defies all reason that if banks are hoarding they're not calling in loans left, right and straight for the jugular. They'll surely have all the intelligence at their fingertips regarding all the poor ickle business set up over the past 7 years that have only gone forward based on borrowings versus home equity. Even looking at my local high street I look at all the clone wanabee restaurants (kept alive by ego and pretence) selling cloned homogenous food and know so many are on respirator and that's just local retail :o

I´m not sure about that. Just look at my anecdotals thread about my home town. Loans being called in I think.

It is the perfect storm. The miracle economy was built solely on HPI. When that stops, the rest of the pack of cards collapses.

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Two words in aswer to the original question on this thread;

Margin Calls.

When these happen, you can be certain that the banks have fully switched in to Evil Mode as opposed to the current Let's Pretend We're Not Evil Mode.

Im not an expert: but it looks like we're seeing a self perpetuating systemic margin call throughout the financial system. Won't be long before this spills over into the real economy in my view....

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i'm waiting for the BTL portfolio revaluation process to start.

Surely a responsibly lender would want to make sure that the BTL LTV's are within safe margins. I am sure that all legitimte BTLs will be happy to cooperate.

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Banks are already recapitalising under the guise of bank penalty charges. Lloyds TSB will charge you up to £120 for bouncing direct debit.

These fees are worth £billions per year.

They say this is a 'fee' for a 'service'.

Even though the charges are liklely to be illegal and are difinately unfair the OFT has managed to drag a test case to deside the issue out for the best part of a year.

In the meantime banks are still allowed to charge people what they like.

The saddest thing is that these charges hit the people who are least able to pay the most. £120 can be a weeks income for some families.

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The key question In my mind is HOW LONG BEFORE THEY CUT DIVIDENDS?

Will they do it before cutting overdrafts? The far more efficient manner for them to regain their balance sheets will be to cut dividends. Cutting overdrafts just eats into thir profits. Problm is, it will kill their Share price. I honestly dont think care. they are fighting for survival, and as such can risk alienating the shareholders. Best to hold 50% of your original investment than a nationalized 0.1% surely?

Share prices in the financial sector (what % of GDP was that responsible for by the way on that silly snow family programme a while back?)

are duye for a rather large correction imo, the general consensus it seems on the trading floors is that they are avoiding catching a falling knife as opposed to trying to make a profit from dead-cat bounces.

Its going to get bad this week IMO... fear and greed rues

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My landlord's BTL got repossessed last December, I suspect lenders have been trawling their books for high risks for some months now in the hope they can resell before the market tanks big time.

If banks started calling in their loans, I'd more worried about large companies with big debts. There are some big household names with debt levels above 100%, which doesn't seem healthy in the current climate...

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There are some big household names with debt levels above 100%, which doesn't seem healthy in the current climate...

Is there a league table for listed companies in debt?

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My landlord's BTL got repossessed last December, I suspect lenders have been trawling their books for high risks for some months now in the hope they can resell before the market tanks big time.

If banks started calling in their loans, I'd more worried about large companies with big debts. There are some big household names with debt levels above 100%, which doesn't seem healthy in the current climate...

Exactly so! All those leveraged by-outs by private equity companies where equity was exchanged for debt have left many high street businesses swimming in debt and totally vulnerable.

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Is there a league table for listed companies in debt?

I would be interested to see a report detailing leverage levels for the FTSE 300 companies. Im sure its all out there in the public domain somewhere...

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  • 297 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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