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waitingandsaving

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In true thread junkie style... Just one more thread, you know I'm good for it!

A while ago, Catflap put a few links to what the average buyer should be able to get in Norwich - I think it was based on local average wages at a sensible multiple,and houses to match people in those jobs as it were.

With that in mind, I propose a thread with links to properties that we know the address for, or are going to be pretty easy to find the sold price of once they have finally sold.

Then we can all take a shot at how much we think it will finally sell for, and/or how much we'd value the property at in our own world!

Either the thread will sit languishing at the bottom of the list waiting for houses to be sold, or it'll be interesting to see people's perceptions of a fair price for property in the area...

First up, this 4th floor in Normandie Tower, Rouen Road currently on for £99,995 according to NHPs

the last one in the block sold in November 2007 for £90,000. (note: There is also a top floor Normandie tower flat also on sale at the moment, current asking price of £112,950)

I reckon it'll sell for over £80k (I hope it doesn't though!).

How much it should be though is another matter. It's 2 bedrooms, and I think someone on £14kish on their own (a mid to low level office worker), or a couple on about £10k each should be able to afford it. At conventional multiples (3.5 single, or 2.5 double) that makes it £50k+10% deposit = £55,000. I still think that's a bit too much, as there aren't going to be many people that choose to live on Rouen Rd I guess, but that's where I'm looking at things ending up. I suspect I'm being overly ambitious though.

There's a couple on Mornington Road that might be worth keeping track of, and I'll make a note of the open houses in Thursday's property section, and put links to them - it's a bit of a challenge to find properties with definable locations that will be easy to look up in several months time.

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Interesting! :)

My late uncle lived in one of the flats on the 13th floor. Whenever I went with my parents to visit him, I used to be transfixed by the views. However, this was a few years before Riverside was ever developed, so there was a good view of the Boulton & Paul works and the Whitlingham Lane dry ski slope!

The flat on the 15th floor will be nearly impossible (and expensive) to mortgage, so no matter how better the views are or how nice it is inside, it will be hard to sell.

Mornington Road...don't the houses there go for £150k+ being in the Golden Triangle?

I'll have a go with a Victorian terrace in North City (NR3) but its sometimes hard to get what house number they are from the picture.

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This studio flat on Woodcock Road has been on the market for absolutely ages! Think it went on for £85k, then £82,495 and now £79,950. Seems like the seller is starting to get desperate, despite the slight reductions in the asking price.

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Here's another one - I've put this one up, as it's similar to one Catflap posted a while ago (Probably in spring last year, a house on Lindford Drive)when we had a discussion about what prices should be based on salary multiples.

It's 54 Abinger Way, out in Eaton, and it sold for £149,950 in May 2004

I think it's fairly recent to the market, so we can see how long it takes to sell, and what it goes for in the end.

Edit to say it's currently on for £175k - but it's with Arnolds, and as per posts elsewhere, it's believed that they are a bit toppy when it comes to valuations....

Edited by waitingandsaving

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Edit to say it's currently on for £175k - but it's with Arnolds, and as per posts elsewhere, it's believed that they are a bit toppy when it comes to valuations....

£175k!!! Crikey, only 2 bedrooms! :blink: If that was slap bang in Norwich City Centre then it might be worth it but not in Eaton. Sorry! Well I certainly wouldn't buy it at that price :angry: £135k is more realistic.

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I think £135 would be a fair price for that too - it's a good area, but it's overlooking the golf course directly, with a pathway in between (I had a snoop as I went down Marston Lane) The Father In Law always mutters something about Pigs, Pathways and something else beginning with P when talking about house location, so I guess it should have points knocked off for the pathway too... didn't investigate enough to see where the garage was though - but it's not right next to it like some of the others on the street. :( (Although maybe there's access through the back garden)

The Normadie Tower, and the Woodcock Road flats are both currently off the market, so we'll have to wait and see - Abinger way is still on, with no reduction - but I guess it's only been a month or so...

Some more were listed in tonights rag, with addresses, as they have open house days, I guess (although some don't - so I'm not sure why they were quite so explicit in their details).

1, St Edmunds Wharf (2 bed appt), current asking price of £239,950 (but Property Bee says it was reduced on 22nd April from £249,950 Linky It last sold for £200k, on 31/01/2003.

6 Grove Dale, Newton Flotman, current asking price of £160,000 OIEO 2 bed bungalow It was only bought in August 2007 - for £170,000, so they're looking at a £10k loss in less than a year.

1 Duverlin Close, Norwich, Current asking price of £219,950 (PB says it was reduced 30/04 from £229,950) 3 bed house It last sold for £193,000 on 14/08/06 - I wouldn't be surprised if it went for about that price again, if someone offered, and they were sensible... (It would only be another 13 ish% off the current asking to be at 2006 price again)

The Old Coach House, Bracondale Millgate (NR1 2EQ) 5 bed detached Current asking price of £375,000, last sold for £335,000 in November 2006. It looks lovely, if a little sparse in a way... But when you think of it's location, and the asking prices of nearby "luxury apartments" it's a bit of a bargain...

It's just a waiting game to see how much they go for - but! What would you pay for them? I reckon 2003 prices for St Edmundsbury is probably fair (although I wonder if they'll get it - things just aren't shifting - but it does have river views), I don't know Newton Flotman well enough to know, but if they get £150k they should probably be delighted (it depends on the availability of bungalows out there- some places they are highly prized...) And Bracondale Millgate, well, my eyes are mistied by the asking prices of the new build flats in the area, but £345k for a central 5 bedder could be a good price, but in a few months it might seem way OTT.

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It's been a while since I looked at the whole of Norwich on rightmove...

Scraping this old thread from the bottom of the barrel (pretty defunct as the mighty bee does so much leg work now - although it doesn't track the final sale prices!)

I came across the old coach house, and remembered the bright red settees... It's down to £329,950 now, so under what they paid for it in 2006.

Zoopla says that 6 Grove Dale, Newton Flotman finally sold on 13/02/09 for £137,500, considerably less than the £170k they paid for it less than 2 years previous.

1 St Edmunds sold for £232,200 on 9/09/08, so they made a profit.

Duverlin Close is still on the market - current asking price is £209 950

The Abinger way one isn't mentioned, but I've seen a "sold" sign up near the house, and I think it relates to that property.

The only flat in Normadie Tower sold since May last yr was Number 26, which sold for £74,000.

It's interesting (to me anyway) to see what's sold and what's not.

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Sorry to hijack your thread, as a fellow Bee user, is there a way to automate

the side bar listing ?

I have 200+ properties viewed and its a pain clicking through them all.

Im hoping theres some kind of script/macro that will click through them all

and allow me to view the results when its done.

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Ah, sorry, I'm not technical enough for that!

I have my "patch" that I do a regular search on thru' rightmove - however, you only have to click through the the pages of 10 or so houses that RM display for the mighty Bee to update, so long as you don't have endless pages to trawl through, this is a fairly quick process - hope that helps.

However, I'm pretty sure that someone will have devised something similar to what you're after - have you been on the Property Bee forum? You might find a useful thread or two there - or you can link up with someone who has similar ideas. I have to confess, I don't use it as much now - we changed computers, and I never got round to reinstalling - it was when everything was starting to fall into place, banks were going under (or trying to) and finally an HPC felt like it was a "done deal" I stopped looking at prices for a while. Now I'm back to being nosey and keeping tabs, it might be time to reinstall....

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Adding another house to the list to keep track of (for nothing but noseyness!)...

382 Unthank Road - Link current asking price £515k (originally on for £525k in May 09) was previously sold for £300k on 21/11/2003. It's not often houses on such roads are identified by their house number, and also recently(ish) sold.

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I'd like to think that maybe the bigger houses go up by more when prices go up, but that they also have to come down by more when prices go down (the affordability/credit issue will affect everyone not just those buying cheaper houses - hopefully anyway!)

Yep - I think £300k - or even £315k sounds like a bargain for that place - looking at the details, it looks like it's had a new kitchen in (although I don't personally approve of shiny new granite/marble floors in a kitchen - that just shouts slipping over/cracked head incidents to me). It also looks like it's had a good bit of decoration done to it - it's got a young and rich look to it in the pictures - there no floral wallpaper about - just lots of magnolia.

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I walked all the way up that road yesterday on the way to see a friend.. (nice and sunny :) ) there's loads of houses all like that one for miles on end.

Really had me thinking "how on earth can there be that many people in Norwich who are capable of earning the £70k+ joint salary needed to even get a mortgage on a £500k place like that?

Of course, the answer is the vast majority of the people living in them aren't on £70k, and didn't pay that much... a lot probably bought at the £250k mark during the late 90's, early 00's.

And there aren't going to be any new people buying them either. Physically impossible... even high-end jobs like "full-time course leader for 100 university students, 10 years of education, 30 years experience" only pay £55k.

Even if you take only 50k joint as the amount needed to get a mortgage on a £500k place (lets assume £100k cash deposit, why not?), that's only 5% of people, who need to be married to another one of the 5%. Odds of that are somewhere around 0.25%, probably a little more once you add in the social factors.

Norwich population 367,000 x 0.0025 = 917. Add in the people that can afford it on a single salary or single salary + minor salary from partner, and you're looking at another 1000-odd people

So, with a few generous assumptions, that's 2000 people in norwich capable of getting a mortgage on a place like that.

Enough to fill up Unthank Road, Newmarket Road, maybe the nice bit of the avenues too. Assuming that all of the 2000 rich couples don't already own their own place, or do already own their place, but also want to invest in property.

As for all the nice houses on the other several hundred streets in norwich, the money will have to come from the magic money pixie. This place is only physically capable of (eventually) providing the cash for about 1% of them. Unless there's rampant inflation, or there's several thousand cash buyer millionaires in Norwich hiding under rocks it's just not going to happen.

Edited by DementedTuna

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Interesting analysis, DT.

I have wondered about the same thing and to be fair, we do not know about the financial circumstances of the people who buy/live in these large properties. Maybe they have received inheritances from estates to purchase these large properties or maybe the houses have been passed on up a generation while the parents moved elsewhere? Maybe these people have invested their money wisely and just a small mortgage was required to buy the property? We just don't know.

What we do know is - as soon as buyers keep their hands in their pockets when such nice properties come onto the market, then the market will find its natural level.

Edited by MattW

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Thanks DT - great thought process.

I've wondered about all these properties too. I think there's a large population that are routinely overlooked - the pensioners. Lots more of these places were bought even further back than the early 90's. When you look at the ones that come on the market in these nice roads (I'm thinking more of the ones along the Avenues/Christchurch Road way, as well as on Eaton Rise - Welsford Road and the like) a lot of them reflect the decor choices of those that are older people - who've either shuffled off this mortal coil, or are moving into sheltered housing/retirement flats as it's too much for them to manage now.

These places used to be snapped up by developers - as they were (and still are) frequently in need of modernisation - no fitted kitchens, old electrics etc. We now see these up for sale and not offered to the developers for 1st refusal before they even have the chance of being advertised to the wider public.

I wouldn't be surprised if a high proportion of these properties (golden triangle, avenues, eaton rise etc) that were all built around the same time have had the same residents in them for most of that time - they were bought when it wasn't the top 5% of the earning population that could afford them, they were bought when, for example, 2 teachers - or something similar - could manage to buy them.

This is probably the first time that those houses have been considered "elite" (for want of a better word) - before they were for professional types, but not necessarily those on massive earings. Like DT says, there are too many of them to remain top draw houses, unless either wages go up, or prices come down, some of them are going to be sat empty in the next few years.

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A few from last night's property rag...

1 Thorpe Hamlet Lodge, 11 Thorpe Road, NR1 1EP repo from Howards EAs, current offer at £119,500

Last sold for £195,000 31st October 2007 :blink: (Ouch)

12 Edgefield Close, Old Catton Current Asking price £129,950 (LINK)

Previous Sold Prices:

Jan 1998 £49,000

July 2000 £64,000

November 2001 £79,000

Flat 6 Catton View Court, Norwich NR3 3TF - For Auction on 9th Sept with Auction House - Guide Price £40,000 - £60,000

Last Sold June 2008 £58,500

56 Lillian Close, Norwich NR6 6RZ Auction House, 9th Sept, Guide Price £40,000 - £60,000

Last Sold

April 2000 £23,134

Dec 2005 £73,500

Shouldn't have long to wait for the auction properties to sell. I won't be surprised if they go for over guide price at the moment...

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:wub: That's a gorgeous house.

The current owners might be making a £10k losss but this seems to be a drop in the ocean. To afford that house someone would have to have a total income of around £100k to afford that. Or a hefty deposit. <_<

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I think you'd need to be on over £100k/year, and have a big deposit for that one! Especially once you've factored in the stamp duty etc... I guess that's how things got this crazy - a couple of years ago you could have bought that place if you were on £50 - 60k/year, and no deposit.

Unless the vendors bought for cash, they're taking more than a £10k hit - as they'll presumably be paying out on a mortgage for it, even though it's empty, and paying something to live wherever they are now as well... Double whammy! Even if they bought it for cash, if the money is tied up in the house, and not in the bank/other investments, then there's some opportunity cost thing going on there.

I found it difficult to see what was what in the photos - lack of furniture makes everything seem bigger...

However! To pick holes in the house (saucer of milk and a large handbag please!)

For that much money, I'd be hoping for an actual 4 bedroom house - not 3 bedrooms and a room that's basically a corridor going nowhere - 10'3" x 5'5"

For that much money, I'd want some easy access off road parking - not permit parking and visitors parking nearby (chances are if you're buying a house like that, you're both working professionals, and there'll be 2 cars in the family - I know there's a garage, but in reality, not that many people use their garage for the car nowadays!)

For that much money, I'd be expecting a bit more garden

And when they say "Semi Detached" it's more partitioned terracing really

This one on Mt Pleasant is on for £340k (akthough it's 3 bedrooms) this one is on the equally sought after Christchurch Rd - I think it just needs prettying up, then lickety split! It'll be charming again! This one on Earlham road ticks lots of boxes - bedrooms, spare rooms to know decide what to do with, good garden, and off road parking (one wonders what's wrong with it...)

They're all vaguely in the same area, but offer more than the Mt Pleasant one (IMHO) - for roughly the same price... I however, think there are a few gems under the £300k mark - especially round the Constitution Hill way, and Recreation Road way - but often they don't have the parking.

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I do quite like the Constitution Hill/St. Cements Hill area quite a lot. :) Recently discivered that this is a Conservation area. Similar style houses yet considerably cheaper than the Golden Triangle/University areas.

For my next step up the ladder I will likely be looking North. I quite like this house between Aylsham & Drayton Roads, which needs a bit of £ spent on it: Berners St, £110k Been on the market for some time now, suggesting that its overpriced by a considerable margin.

Still can't stretch to that just yet. :unsure: However, it might take such a long time for me to get to that stage that I'd probably be better off looking at bungalows in Catton & Hellesdon. :lol:

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Hi guys, you've been watching things closely on this thread, could you tell me where the market's at right now in Norwich?

My search is centred on Diss for work/family reasons but when I've been browsing the wider area on Rightmove I've noticed that Norwich seems to have taken a bigger hit.

What I mean is that Norwich was always pricier than Diss throughout the boom if you compared like with like (I put it down to big city, better jobs, more infrastructure, so more desirable) Now it seems that you get more for your money in Norwich.

There seem to be plenty of 3 bed detached (my target market) in Norwich asking sub-£150k, in Diss, these are asking £175k+. These sold at upper £190s at the peak in 2007, fell to £160ish earlier this year (down 18%), this spring/summer back up to £170ish (12% off peak)

4-bed detached (also on my wish list) start at £170-180k in Norwich, in Diss they're always asking £200k+.

So the price you'd pay for a 3 bed round here, you can get a 4-bed in Norwich.

Any ideas what's holding the prices up here, why they've slipped further in Norwich or are we just behind the curve?

Can you give some analysis in percentage terms as to how the Norwich market fell, then bounced. Where do you think things are heading now the autumn's here?

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Hi Luigi!

I think it's still too soon to tell about the situation here... I'd give it till the end of October at least. Kids have only just got back to school really, the EAs write off the summer holidays as no one looks round houses then, but they spend the time getting the sales to go through. They're only just starting on the "Move in Time for Christmas!" adverts, and it'll be a while till things are really evident as to whether stuff is selling.

Having said that!

It looks like properties that are coming on the market are cheaper than they were a while ago. I'm going to hazard a guess at about 10 - 15% less. The Home.co.uk pages are a mine of information - highly recommended. Try this page, and also this one. The first page I've linked to is my favourite - pictures say a thousand words etc... That's for Norwich in general, you can put in the first part of a postcode to get a more local picture.

I think when comparing Diss to Norwich you need to bear in mind locality - when you're looking at a 4 bedder in Norwich, it could be in somewhere like Bowthorpe, which is a bit of a sclep inot Norwich itself, whereas a house on a similar kind of estate in Diss might be a quick walk to the shops, rather than a bus ride away - and that will have some effect on the prices - so it might not be completely like for like. Does that make sense, or am I talking out of my behind?

I suspect that you're right in that Diss might be a bit behind Norwich in the stats too - and Norwich doesn't seem as bad as some other places that are closer to London for example. It's the whole rippling out thing. I remember ages ago, someone had an animation of price drops in the last crash region by region - you could physically see the price drops and rises moving through the country county by county.

Overall, I think it'll be late October/November before we see where things really are, and whether the sales made in the summer actually go through, or whether the properties quietly come back on the market!

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Hi waitingandsaving, some good insights there.

I see your point about comparing like for like, I guess there are plenty of 4-bedders in Norwich up for £200K+ too, in more convenient/desirable locations. It's true you can walk into town easily from most parts of Diss.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what late autumn brings, things are still moving here and sales seem to be more or less keeping pace with new instructions, so little incentive to make large reductions, unless they need to sell quickly. A little more supply or less demand could tip it back into a buyer's market again. With relatively few new instructions, the agents are fighting over them and pandering to vendor's unrealistic expectations, one I spoke to recently complained about another unnamed agent who was 'overvaluing'. Of course, these are the ones that just sit there, loads on the market over a year round here.

I think we need to see something a little bit dramatic in the wider economic picture to see any big drops, but there's always potential for a crisis with the unprecedented policies being pursued.

Also hoping that that 'ripple effect' hits Diss soon. I remember the market turning at the start of the boom in the late 90's in London, then Cambridge & Norwich 6 months later, it took about 12 months to hit Diss.

Another factor that affects the local market here is the retiree/'escape to the country' set, it makes up quite a large proportion of the sales activity, it obviously still looks cheap compared to places closer to London. Anything that sells for above market value, it's soon obvious that an out-of-towner who hasn't done his research has bought it and the agents know it too, while they've got these on their books, they can be a bit dismissive of locals who question their pricing strategy. I would think the Norwich market is proportionally more dependent on local families and their employment situation.

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Thanks for the insight on the time scale for these parts in the last crash... I was too young at the time to be aware of these things really :)

Interesting about the retiree/escape to the country set - while there are fools from out of town, then there'll always be a market for the overpriced stuff - I wonder if the local EAs have an "I Saw You Coming" draw with all the expensive properties in, and as soon as a non local turns up, they head to the appropriate draw...

I don't think it'll take too much to tip the market - even a bit of excitment about the swine flu (or some similar broo haha) might cause a slight stall in the market - things are delicately balanced, and at the moment it's ticking over, but the current sales volumes appear to be so low, that anything could tip it over - or just a slight increase in sales, and you've got a great and positive news story!

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  • 293 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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