Housing, Living And Life On Mars & Earlier...

[Sheer Heart Attack]

This thread has been inspired by the Thatcher vs Bliar/Brown thread.

I was born in 1973 - the year that Sam Tyler lept back to in Life on Mars. I vaguely remember little bits of the 70s but certainly not enough to form an adult opinion on.

I obviously remember a lot of the 80s. I lived in a mining town in Northumberland whose two pits closed, the last one during the miners' strike. I remember an awful lot of anger and uncertainty - my parents genuinely thought that the country was going to hell in a handbag. Since then, I think of the world as being in a consumerist phase - God has gone (thankfully imo) and been replaced by shopping and celebrities (not a good conclusion).

For older forum members, how do the 60s and 70s compare with 80s and beyond? Was getting on the ladder a lot easier then? Were people less materialistic and was there a lot more working class solidarity? Were they gentler, fun times or just as vicious as today but in a different way?

[Guest Skint Academic]

The 70's. The decade of the crap haircut.

[Sheer Heart Attack]

The 70's. The decade of the crap haircut.

Indeed. I had a basin cut. I was barely out of nappies though.

[Bosh]

Posted this earlier on another thread but loved it so much. here it is again, sorry

According to today's regulators and bureaucrats, those of us who were

kids in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's probably shouldn't have

survived, because...

Our baby cots were covered with brightly coloured lead-based paint

which was promptly chewed and licked.

We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, or latches on doors or

cabinets

When we rode our bikes, we wore no helmets, just flip flops and

fluorescent 'clackers' on our wheels.

As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags.

Riding in the passenger seat was a treat.

We drank water from the garden hose and not from a bottle and it tasted

the same.

We ate dripping sandwiches, bread and butter pudding and drank fizzy

pop with sugar in it, but we were never overweight because we were

always outside playing.

We shared one drink with four friends, from one bottle or can and no

one actually died from this.

We would spend hours building go-carts out of scraps and then went top

speed down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. After

running into stinging nettles a few times, we learned to solve the

problem.

We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were

back before it got dark. No one was able to reach us all day and no

one minded.

We did not have Playstations or X-Boxes, no video games at all. No 99

channels on TV, no videotape movies, no surround sound, no mobile

phones, no personal computers, no Internet chat rooms. We had friends -

we went outside and found them.

We played elastics and street rounders, and sometimes that ball really

hurt.

We fell out of trees, got cut and broke bones and teeth, and there were

no lawsuits. They were accidents. We learnt not to do the

same

thing again.

We had fights, punched each other hard and got black and blue we

learned to get over it.

We walked to friend's homes.

We also, believe it or not, WALKED to school, we didn't rely on mummy

or daddy to drive us to school, which was just round the corner.

We made up games with sticks and tennis balls and ate live stuff, and

although we were told it would happen, we did not have very

many eyes out,nor did the live stuff live inside us forever.

We rode bikes in packs of 7 and wore our coats by only the hood.

Our actions were our own. Consequences were expected.

The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke a law was unheard of.

They actually sided with the law. Imagine that!

This generation has produced some of the best risk-takers and problem

solvers and inventors, ever. The past 50 years have been an explosion

of innovation and new ideas. We had freedom, failure, success

and

responsibility, and we learned how to deal with it all.

We had the luck to grow up as real kids,

before lawyers and government regulated our lives, for our own good.

[cartimandua51]

I grew up in Nottingham in the 50s & 60s. When I went to Bristol Uni I remember wondering where the hell all the chucking-out time fights were -I never saw any, whereas you couldn't go anywhere near Slab Square after 10.30 without having to skirt a few. And the meeting place of Oscar, the stone lion on the left of the Council House, who legend had it would roar if a virgin over 16 walked past....

Nottingham in the 50s and 60s was a place of tight communities ( varying degrees of law-abidingness) with a certain degree of racism against the West Indian immigrants, though not against the equally large Polish community (accident of WW2). Substitute Pakistani for W. Indian and not much changes there then!

Then as now it had an excellent bus service (my daughter has just moved from Nottingham Uni to work in Bristol & is horrified by the public transport system there)

London in the late 70s - my car got nicked from Penge car park one night; a week or so later the police rang to say it was on the XYZ estate. I went to inspect the damage in a borrowed car, and while I was disconsolately kicking the tyres of the dead car, several youths appeared and said " You can't leave that here, it'll get burnt out" and they were into it and over it and under it and had it going in no time; then insisted on driving it back to my flat for me.

Also, agree totally with boshadosh - the freedom we had as kids was amazing. Enid Blyton was still a bit absurd, but not from a different planet as she is now.

Not least, in the late 60s I and most of my friends hitch-hiked all over the place. How often do you see a hitch-hiker now?

Edited March 10, 2008 by cartimandua51

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

I hated the 80s. At least the 70s were interesting and some of us had high hopes that things would change for the better Houses could actually be afforded by people earning an average income back then as well!

The only things that keep me sane these days are Vaughan Williams, drinking and eccentric events like the Bog Snorkelling in Llanwrtyd Wells http://www.bogsnorkelling.com/ and National Beanpole Week http://www.greenwoodcentre.org.uk/National_Beanpole_Week.htm

PS. Does anyone have a chart tracking average income and average house prices over the last few decades?

Edited March 10, 2008 by gruffydd

[Guest Skint Academic]

I hated the 80s. At least the 70s were interesting and some of us had high hopes that things would change for the better Houses could actually be afforded by people earning an average income back then as well!

The only things that keep me sane these days are Vaughan Williams, drinking and eccentric events like the Bog Snorkelling in Llanwrtyd Wells http://www.bogsnorkelling.com/ and National Beanpole Week http://www.greenwoodcentre.org.uk/National_Beanpole_Week.htm

Don't really remember the 70's but it was generally good for me. I hated the 80's. I hid inside my bedroom and waited until it passed. Although I went through some really tough personal times in the 90's, things seemed much better with society in general. I hate the noughties, much like the 80's and again I am hiding away as much as possible.

Someone tell me when it's the teenties ...

[piece of paper]

Everyone's drive have a black oily patch where the Cortina/Marina/Allegro etc dumped that which hadn't been blown out the exhaust.

p-o-p

[petetong]

I was a kid in the 70's, it was brilliant time to be a kid. Skateboards, 10p mix ups, playing in dangerous places, falling put of trees, long hot summers (1976), a proper childhood ...

[Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable]

I caught my left testicle in a swing in the summer of '76.

It hasn't been right since.

[grey shark]

I was a kid in the 70's, it was brilliant time to be a kid. Skateboards, 10p mix ups, playing in dangerous places, falling put of trees, long hot summers (1976), a proper childhood ...

Agreed , Chopper bikes , cortina's , abba , planet of the apes , The sweeney , spangles................

[OLDFTB]

I am a late 50's baby and i spent the 60's,70's & 80's looking forward to the invention of the internet and wondering how high house prices will rise by 2008.

[Fishfinger]

I've posted this before but the 70's were a truly appaling time (i was 4-14 during the decade). Constant strikes, raging inflation, litter everywhere, London was dirty and drab, crap British cars, flares, hideous wall paper and carpets, no M25, smoking allowed on trains, shops shut on a Sunday (Sundays soooooooooo boring), no internet, crap music (until Punk came along), hand-me-down clothes, only 3 tv stations, 4 radio stations (OK forget LBC), BOREDOM during summer holidays, no England in the world cup!, football hooliganism,no video taping, if you were a women any rape allegations wouldn't be taken that seriously and more discrimination for women in general, more monopolies/cartels/unions with restrictive practices which kept the cost of goods and services high (the Met Police were dogged by corruption and allegation of freemasonary), crap weather ('76 excluded), XMAS SHOPPING ON THE LAST 2 SATURDAYS BEFORE XMAS..

On the plus side, yes times were less materialistic but that was due to crap economy, where I lived there wasn't a lot a money to go around! - remember when I went out to work in '83, basic income tax was 30p in the £ (or was it 33p?)! As other posters had rightly pointed out there was more freedom for kids (on the down side more freedom for pedos and inter family child sex abuse was unmentionable).School standards were higher, civility was higher as well, and more respect for authority (that is a 2 edged sword though) the NHS functioned a lot better, less divorce so less broken homes, less cars on the road, cheap road insurance for 18 year olds!, more jobs depsite unemployment hitting the 1m mark sometime in 1975 (ish).

Having lived though 4 decades each one has it's own pro's and cons but I'm not blinded by nostalgia. Most of the everyday things you take for granted weren't even available then (Sat Nav in a ford cortina? you're having a laugh son) and we can thank the advances in computing for that.

On balance I'd rather be living now than then.

Edit: Spelling

Edited March 10, 2008 by Fishfinger

[Guest Bart of Darkness]

For older forum members, how do the 60s and 70s compare with 80s and beyond?

I think boshdadosh has pretty much said it all.

No Playstations, iPods, 24 hour shopping/TV it's true, but if you think that material objects are the way to happiness, shoot yourself now. Save 40-50 years of wasted space.

[blackbear]

Posted this earlier on another thread but loved it so much. here it is again, sorry

So, so true. Brings up great memories but it's painful to read that and think of kids and teenagers now. I've put off the idea of having kids as it'd be too unfair to them.

[Guest Bart of Darkness]

Actually, talking of "Life on Mars", some people found the ending a bit hard to understand.

***SPOILER ALERT****

They couldn't understand why Sam threw himself off the building at the end. But if I'd been in the 70s on minute, then woke up to find myself in the present day, I'd have been on that roof like a rat up a drainpipe.

That ending made perfect sense to me.

[Bosh]

I think boshdadosh has pretty much said it all.

No Playstations, iPods, 24 hour shopping/TV it's true, but if you think that material objects are the way to happiness, shoot yourself now. Save 40-50 years of wasted space.

also posted this recently but quite apt for this thread, apoologies BOD I know you read this before, enjoy

School Attitudes 1977 vs. School 2007

Scenario 1: Johnny and Mark get into a fistfight after school.

1977 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up mates.

2007 - Police are called, Armed Response Unit arrives and arrests Johnny and Mark. Mobiles phones with evidence of fight are confiscated. Both are charged with assault, ASBOs are taken out and suspended even though Johnny started it. Diversionary conferences and parent meetings conducted. Mobile phone video shown on 6 internet sites.

Scenario 2: Jeffrey won't sit still in class, disrupts other students.

1977 - Jeffrey is sent to the principal's office and given 6 of the best. Returns to class, sits still and never disrupts the class again.

2007 - Jeffrey is given huge doses of Ritalin. Counselled to death. Becomes a zombie. Tested for ADHD. School gets extra funding because Jeffrey has a disability. Jeffrey drops out of school.

Scenario 3: Billy breaks a window in his neighbour's car and his Dad gives him the slipper.

1977 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normally, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.

2007 - Billy's dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy is removed to foster care and joins a gang. Psychologist convinces Billy's sister that she remembers being abused herself and their dad goes to prison. Billy's mum has an affair with the psychologist. Psychologist gets a promotion.

Scenario 4: Mark brings cigarettes to school .

1977 - Mark shares a smoke with the school principal out on the smoking area.

2007 - Police are called and Mark is expelled from School for drug possession. His car is searched for drugs and weapons.

Scenario 5: Mohammed fails GCSE English.

1977 - Mohammed retakes his exam, passes and goes to college.

2007 - Mohammed's cause is taken up by local human rights group. Newspaper articles appear nationally, insisting that making English a requirement in school is racist. Civil Liberties Association files class action lawsuit against state school system and his English teacher. English is banned from core curriculum. Mohammed is given his qualification anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.

Scenario 6: Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers, puts them in a model plane paint bottle and blows up an anthill.

1977 - Ants die.

2007 - MI5 and police are called and Johnny is charged with perpetrating acts of terrorism. Teams investigate parents, siblings are removed from the home, computers are confiscated, and Johnny's dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly with American airlines ever again.

Scenario 7: Johnny falls during playtime and scrapes his knee. His teacher, Mary, finds him crying, and gives him a hug to comfort him.

1977 -Johnny soon feels better and goes back to playing.

2007 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces three years in prison. Johnny undergoes five years of therapy; becomes gay.

[Fishfinger]

I think boshdadosh has pretty much said it all.

No Playstations, iPods, 24 hour shopping/TV it's true, but if you think that material objects are the way to happiness, shoot yourself now. Save 40-50 years of wasted space.

Material objects are not the way to happiness, I've known my best friend since 11 and most of other friends for at least 20 years. I haven't sold my soul to Mammon, I loathe shopping, have a 10 year old car and my first house was kitted out from a jumble sale! Let's not get too carried away with the nostalgia eh?

[Freeholder]

I got my first full time job in 1973. It was easy. Just walk around the local factories and look at the vacancies boards they all had outside. That I think has changed for the worse.

The people were more polite and there was less street violence.

On the plus side the Triumph I ride now is much better than the one I rode then and the Ford I drive now is better than the one my dad had. A stereo as good as mine did not exist. A calculator cost a weeks wages in 1973. The college I went to had one computer and I never saw it. TV was universally rubbish. The greatest of visionaries had not thought of the internet. But I was young and had a great time. We all tend to be creatures of our time and think well of the times when we were young even if by a rational standard they were rubbish.

[Fishfinger]

I got my first full time job in 1973. It was easy. Just walk around the local factories and look at the vacancies boards they all had outside. That I think has changed for the worse.

The people were more polite and there was less street violence.

On the plus side the Triumph I ride now is much better than the one I rode then and the Ford I drive now is better than the one my dad had. A stereo as good as mine did not exist. A calculator cost a weeks wages in 1973. The college I went to had one computer and I never saw it. TV was universally rubbish. The greatest of visionaries had not thought of the internet. But I was young and had a great time. We all tend to be creatures of our time and think well of the times when we were young even if by a rational standard they were rubbish.

That was what I was trying to say in my own very verbose and inarticulate way.

[Michael]

Actually, talking of "Life on Mars", some people found the ending a bit hard to understand.

***SPOILER ALERT****

They couldn't understand why Sam threw himself off the building at the end. But if I'd been in the 70s on minute, then woke up to find myself in the present day, I'd have been on that roof like a rat up a drainpipe.

That ending made perfect sense to me.

The end of ''Life on Mars '' where he jumped off the building to get back to his previously dreaded 1970s was epic TV...incredibly moving and i never saw it coming.....best telly ive seen maybe

but IMO the bit prior to the very end was too confusing.....ie where he sees his parents' graves in the cemetery...

People making such programmes must be aware that this so confusing it adds nothing to the story and just annoys the viewers.............

To be honest i think people genreally look at the past through rose tinted glasses conveniently ignoring the bad points.

such as unchecked child sexual abuse and dodging dog sh*t on every pavement and playing field...

Edited March 10, 2008 by Michael

[cartimandua51]

Ford I drive now is better than the one my dad had.

Recently my OH bought me a battered old 1976 MG Midget, identical to the one I bought new with a company car loan in 1976. Oh the memories - before the Japanese upped the game, how every journey (especially ones on the Motorway) had that added frisson of not actually knowing whether you'd get there, or whether you'd arrive on the back of an AA Relay truck. And the brakes that required 10 minutes notice that they were going to be needed as you hurtled towards the car in front. And the apparent lack of synchromesh on first gear (& second if you didn't treat the gearbox with loving care).

And no, it wasn't just that it was a midget, the Rover V8 I had was no better (well, it was an automatic so the gears weren't a problem but everything else was); my much loved Capri 3L ghia was terrifyingly back-end happy, the Capri 2.8i went like a bat out of hell but talk about twitchy... the Jags that drank petrol, the Citroen CX estate drove like a hearse and that rotted through the floor, the Citroen Mehari that defeated a would-be drunken thief because he couldn't work out the gear lever....

Then 6 years on Daewoo Matizes that buzzed up and down the M3 at 85 and never ever broke down.

[Guest Bart of Darkness]

We all tend to be creatures of our time and think well of the times when we were young even if by a rational standard they were rubbish.

Yeah, I loved the 70s because that was the time of my childhood. I still think that they were better times than the present (people were fractionally nicer IMO), although someone brought up in the 50s might disagree.

I have a friend who was born in 1973 and we often have good-natured "arguments" about the 70s versus today. Needless to say, I'm right, whatever she might say.

[Freeholder]

Ford I drive now is better than the one my dad had.

Recently my OH bought me a battered old 1976 MG Midget, identical to the one I bought new with a company car loan in 1976. Oh the memories - before the Japanese upped the game, how every journey (especially ones on the Motorway) had that added frisson of not actually knowing whether you'd get there, or whether you'd arrive on the back of an AA Relay truck. And the brakes that required 10 minutes notice that they were going to be needed as you hurtled towards the car in front. And the apparent lack of synchromesh on first gear (& second if you didn't treat the gearbox with loving care).

And no, it wasn't just that it was a midget, the Rover V8 I had was no better (well, it was an automatic so the gears weren't a problem but everything else was); my much loved Capri 3L ghia was terrifyingly back-end happy, the Capri 2.8i went like a bat out of hell but talk about twitchy... the Jags that drank petrol, the Citroen CX estate drove like a hearse and that rotted through the floor, the Citroen Mehari that defeated a would-be drunken thief because he couldn't work out the gear lever....

Then 6 years on Daewoo Matizes that buzzed up and down the M3 at 85 and never ever broke down.

I remember a Mk1 escort with drums all round. Heel on brake pedal, death grip on the steering wheel, gradual retardation.

Did you ever ride a conical hub drum BSA/Triumph? ah the terror. The tyres were nearly as bad. Yet we went fast on these things. We were young and thought we were immortal.

[beefheart]

I remember stray dogs everywhere.

mk4 and mk5 cortinas were every other car (78-81)

possession of weed was really bad.

not as much traffic.

sundays were really sh1te.shops shut and churchy stuff on telly.

blakes 7 and kenny everett were highlights

also OTT,and that power-to-the-people chappie citizen smith

every school tv program narrated by tarrant.

puking on the school coach going to some farm.

mars bars 8p, matches 1p,swans 2p - I loved lighting fires.

purple Y fronts with brown edging.

superman t shirts.

itchy duffle coats.

parkers zipped up into a tube.