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Marek

These Are Very Sad Times We Live In

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I am 31, I envy my parents in some ways

1. They didn't have to speculate over house prices

2. They didn't have to go to forums and read up on posts/messages whether it's good time to buy or not

3. They bought their house to start a family not to make an investment

4. Lots of people of my age don't have a place they can call home unless they go back to their parents

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I am 31, I envy my parents in some ways

1. They didn't have to speculate over house prices

2. They didn't have to go to forums and read up on posts/messages whether it's good time to buy or not

3. They bought their house to start a family not to make an investment

4. Lots of people of my age don't have a place they can call home unless they go back to their parents

You should envy them; the boomer generation are the luckiest generation - and also the most spoilt. You will regularly get boomers moaning about young people today spending all their money on Ipods and wanting everything now, and then going on to lecture us about how it was difficult in their day as well. This is all b0llocks - house prices as wage multiples will tell you that.

The simple truth is the boomers have had it very good, and in order to allow themselves to windsurf into the sunset, they have decided consciously or unconsciously to f*ck over the upcoming generation.

It is laughable when the same braying gits who do somersaults with glee when they think of how much their house is worth, then suddenly realise their kids can't afford anything and must be helped onto the ladder. Who knows, may be the idiots will start connecting the two someday?

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I am 31, I envy my parents in some ways

1. They didn't have to speculate over house prices

2. They didn't have to go to forums and read up on posts/messages whether it's good time to buy or not

3. They bought their house to start a family not to make an investment

4. Lots of people of my age don't have a place they can call home unless they go back to their parents

Generally, I think that's pretty accurate. Point 1 isn't entirely true though, there have been past house price booms (e.g. early 70s) during which people found it hard to buy somewhere. In the past, mortgages were pretty tricky to come by - which may be a good or bad thing - but the main difference was that there was quite a lot of social housing which no longer exists. When I first went to university in the early 80s, the college welfare office was still suggesting that people planning to stay in London afterwards should apply for a council flat as soon as possible since it would usually take around 3-4 years to get one. Now I don't think most students would even qualify to be placed on the waiting list.

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I am 31, I envy my parents in some ways

1. They didn't have to speculate over house prices

I remember my Mum and Dad spending hours talking about buying a house in the early 70's and if they would go up or down as they thought that inflation would causes problems

2. They didn't have to go to forums and read up on posts/messages whether it's good time to buy or not

No, They went down the pub, had friends round and asked them instead, there was a real community and not an online one

3. They bought their house to start a family not to make an investment

No, they worried about the possibility that they couldn't pay the mortgage and would go broke or bankrupt - they never believed that the price could go up faster than inflation

4. Lots of people of my age don't have a place they can call home unless they go back to their parents

Nor did I when I was 31, but I was saving like mad, doing pub work in the evenings and a day job to earn enough for a deposit. I was renting a bedsit that had no heating and more wildlife than Woburn Park.

Remain envious as it can fuel you on, to keep you striving for what you want. Don't become one of the feckless, I wannit, give it, I deserve it, crowd and you will get where you need to be!

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Remain envious as it can fuel you on, to keep you striving for what you want. Don't become one of the feckless, I wannit, give it, I deserve it, crowd and you will get where you need to be!

Greed is good!

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I'm a boomer.

You should envy them; the boomer generation are the luckiest generation - and also the most spoilt. You will regularly get boomers moaning about young people today spending all their money on Ipods and wanting everything now, and then going on to lecture us about how it was difficult in their day as well. This is all b0llocks - house prices as wage multiples will tell you that. I never moan about the ipods and wasting money on having a good time - it is exactly what I did - from the age of 16 to about 35.

The simple truth is the boomers have had it very good, and in order to allow themselves to windsurf into the sunset, they have decided consciously or unconsciously to f*ck over the upcoming generation. There is nothing conscious about this as far as I can see. When one of my peers mentions their bloody house prices I always say to them 'that's terrific - how the f*** are your kids going to ever be able to afford to live in a house like yours?' - at which point most of them look gormless (they've clearly not considered it) and then start sputtering about it's always been hard blah blah. When I point out they are talking total bollix and throw a few figures at them to prove it, they usually stop talking and start thinking.

It is laughable when the same braying gits who do somersaults with glee when they think of how much their house is worth, then suddenly realise their kids can't afford anything and must be helped onto the ladder. Who knows, may be the idiots will start connecting the two someday? That is certainly my hope. But the nature of life means that parents think they must take care of their children. They think that owning a house worth 500k will simply put them in a better position (than other people) to help their children. It is yet another example of the astonishing stupidity of people.

What are governments for? To promote the rule of law. To defend people from domination by the rich. To protect people from their own stupidity and greed. That is certainly how the American Constitution reads.

Governments seem to be congenitally useless. This government more than most. But why can't any of them see how one generation is systematically ruining the one following it - and DO SOMETHING about it. Legislate against second home ownership. Legislate against BTL. Legislate to provide a level playing field.

But no, they're leaving it to the market. And the market is about to really screw this country over.

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Indeed, and what a happy and fun filled life this character led (Gekko), now check out the ex-pats forum and you will see that the greed and delusion that is Britain's housing market is going the same way as Gekko's company shareprice... :lol:

Greed is good!

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There have been points in time when the average mortgage cost more in income terms than todays average mortgage, also the 1970s onwards were very shaky times, plently of times when people didn't know they would have a job from one month to the next. Its hard now, but it has been harder in the past (once or twice, for 1 or 2 years)

Edited by moosetea

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I'm 31 and my parents found it desparately difficult to get onto the housing market a year or two before I was born. Just a year or two previously many of the terraced houses in Norwich in those days had been around 3000 pounds, but then had gone up to around 4000 (a lot of money back then). They tried to get 100 pounds knocked off, because even though they were both working, they couldn't quite afford it. In the end they did get it (although the owner didn't budge on the asking price), but were mortgaged up to the eyeballs. They couldn't carpet the floor, they had to wallpaper the ceiling temporarily because they were moldy, and they had constant dripping leaks. The toilet was at the bottom of the garden, and there was no bathroom, so they had to go to their parents for a bath. Financially they couldn't afford to have kids, but they reckoned if you ponder too long about the finances, there would never be a good time to have children, and at 24/25 they were old compared to most, when contemplating starting a family.

I think it's all too easy to assume everyone had it easier back in the day. My folks are still paying off the last of their mortgage now - they didn't take out the best of policies (they had an endowment mortgage shortfall).

Edited by crash-and-burn

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"It is laughable when the same braying gits who do somersaults with glee when they think of how much their house is worth, then suddenly realise their kids can't afford anything and must be helped onto the ladder. Who knows, may be the idiots will start connecting the two someday? That is certainly my hope. But the nature of life means that parents think they must take care of their children. They think that owning a house worth 500k will simply put them in a better position (than other people) to help their children. It is yet another example of the astonishing stupidity of people."

Yep, that's the one I get. Problem is that I'm likely to be in my 60s, and perhaps even my 70s, by the time I inherit, so what good does my parents' house being worth £750k (today!) do me? After it's been split four ways - three kids and Gordon.

My usual answer is I'd like a house while I'm young enough to get some value out of it, not the possibility of an inheritance before I'm too old and decrepit to care. My parents bought their first house when they were in their mid-20s, off one university lecturer salary, and traded up to their present house before they were 40. You'd have to be an investment banker now to do that.

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I am 31, I envy my parents in some ways

1. They didn't have to speculate over house prices

2. They didn't have to go to forums and read up on posts/messages whether it's good time to buy or not

3. They bought their house to start a family not to make an investment

4. Lots of people of my age don't have a place they can call home unless they go back to their parents

They probably were smoking lots of pot and having free unabandoned sex in the 1960s also. Mini-skirts, feminism had yet to thoroughly screw the majority of women into 'constantly unhappy not knowing what they want but blaming everything on Men' types and the streets were clean.

I've been saying for years that the baby boomers are greedy sods who have been systematically destroying the country. You cannot move in the BBC for them and I am begining to think they are an Evil in our Society that needs to be taken out and destroyed! :blink:

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What we (i.e. the baby boomer generation - guilty as charged) DID have to worry about was massive inflation - 25% in 1975. Prices DOUBLED in the 5 years between 1974 and 1979.

Add massive unemployment, wage restraint in the public sector (well, some people might think that was a good thing but pay peanuts, get monkeys) and life wasn't entirely a a bed of roses.

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Indeed, and what a happy and fun filled life this character led (Gekko)

It's funny, the brilliance of that film is about the one thing that people who love or hate the whole Wall Street/City of London style of capitalism can agree on.

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I'm 31 and my parents found it desparately difficult to get onto the housing market a year or two before I was born. Just a year or two previously many of the terraced houses in Norwich in those days had been around 3000 pounds, but then had gone up to around 4000 (a lot of money back then). They tried to get 100 pounds knocked off, because even though they were both working, they couldn't quite afford it. In the end they did get it (although the owner didn't budge on the asking price), but were mortgaged up to the eyeballs. They couldn't carpet the floor, they had to wallpaper the ceiling temporarily because they were moldy, and they had constant dripping leaks. The toilet was at the bottom of the garden, and there was no bathroom, so they had to go to their parents for a bath. Financially they couldn't afford to have kids, but they reckoned if you ponder too long about the finances, there would never be a good time to have children, and at 24/25 they were old compared to most, when contemplating starting a family.

I think it's all too easy to assume everyone had it easier back in the day. My folks are still paying off the last of their mortgage now - they didn't take out the best of policies (they had an endowment mortgage shortfall).

There are a lot of people in their 30s, let alone their 20s, who'd kill for that sort of opportunity now.

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An article posted on this HPC about a year ago...

The great generational robbery

Expensive pensions, no hope of getting on the housing ladder, and tens of thousands of pounds of debt just to go to university. Have the under-35s been mugged by the baby-boom generation that went before them?

Many of you reading this will be thieves. And a good proportion of you will be victims. There is no mugging involved, but a new form of wealth exchange, which economic observers are calling generational robbery: the financial phenomenon whereby one generation - the baby boomers - enjoyed a whole range of economic benefits that are now unattainable to those growing up behind them.

If you are over 50, you will recall a blessed carelessness about money in your twenties and thirties that you probably took for granted at the time. You had free university tuition and, if your parents were sufficiently poor, full university maintenance grants. To that, add free dental care; cheap (relatively) houses with gardens; mutualised building societies; statutory retirement at 65 (probable retirement well before then); and final-salary private pensions. You may be unaware of your complicity, or think it unfair to be blamed for the social and political choices made by others of your generation, but the fact is that the under-35s are facing an unprecedented quadruple whammy: expensive pensions, little chance of getting on the housing ladder, a legacy of student debt and high levels of taxation - a combination of financial burdens and concerns that never clouded the youth of their parents.

Consider a 22-year-old graduate. Let's call him Sam. For him, as for his peers, the student debt he left college with was £13,000 (for others today it is closer to £20,000), incurred to repay fees charged at a time when the lifetime payback for having a university degree is decreasing. He is paying for a service that is worth less for him than for the older generation that got it for free and then abolished grants. In addition, the latest wheeze for funding universities is to ask the likes of Sam to donate money to his alma mater. It would be comical to most graduates, were their financial situation not so dire.

With his rent payments, Sam is probably paying off the mortgage of an older landlord who benefited from cheaper house prices. Only a decade ago he would have been four years off becoming a first-time buyer himself; now it is 12 years. Again, his eventual purchase will be a transfer of hundreds of thousands of pounds from young to old. In his tax payments - which will rise by 1.5 per cent of GDP or the equivalent of 4p on income tax in his lifetime - he'll be paying the pensions of a golden-aged era of retirees who stood by as similar pensions were closed to him. Not that he will need much of a

pension, as he may be working into his seventies anyway.

If Sam wants to become a homeowner, he'll have to work fast. The first rung of the housing ladder is rapidly disappearing. Indeed, with mortgage terms being extended to 30, 40 or even 50 years, it is questionable whether the ladder exists at all. More of those struggling to buy property today should expect to stay much longer in the first flat they struggled to buy than previous generations. High house prices are not creating wealth - they are merely redistributing it to the old and rich from the young and poor.

Demographics show the root of the problem. On the Office for National Statistics website there is an animation which shows age distribution in Britain. The population pyramids that once showed many young people at the bottom supporting a small number of older people at the top is being flipped on its head. The result is an older generation with a stronger political voice and politicians who target the greater voting power of that ageing group, to the detriment of the relatively voiceless young. At the time of the 2005 election, MORI calculated that the over-55s had 4.2 times the voting power of 18- to 34-year-olds. We are sliding towards a gerontocracy.

Other European countries are further down the road. The balance in favour of older voters will make Germany a gerontocracy within seven or eight years, according to the economist Hans-Werner Sinn. The signs are already there. Nuremberg is building swingless playgrounds for senior citizens in their parks and an advocacy group for older people, the Grey Panthers, nearly made it into the Berlin regional parliament in last September's elections. In response, young Germans have formed the Foundation for the Rights of Future Generations, and will this year try to get the Bundestag to change the constitution to protect those rights.

In the UK, the number of people over 40 will overtake the under-forties by 2021. By 2031, the average age of the population will climb from 39 to 44, and over-65s will constitute nearly a quarter of the population, compared to the sixth they comprise now. This is yielding a new age-related politics.

The hand of an ageing population can be seen in certain postwar changes to the British tax system. According to Martin Weale, of the National Institute of Economic and Social Research, the amount of tax on wealth - such as housing, which is usually owned by older people - has fallen dramatically since the end of the war. Meanwhile, taxes on those who work (normally younger people) have risen steadily. Some pensioners are very poor. Most are not. The greatest proportion of wealthy people in Britain are over 55; 70 per cent of those worth more than half a million pounds are over 55. Wealth statistics in Britain are sketchy, partly because they are derived from data on inheritance. However, the last set of official figures showed that, on average, 55- to 69-year-olds had £109,000 in amassed assets - treble those of 25- to 39-year-olds. Over-55s are the biggest owners and traders of shares.

To some degree, that is to be expected. The older you are, the longer you have had to amass assets. But these figures do illuminate the reality behind those depictions of a poverty-stricken old age. Certainly, there are those who need help. But whereas 27 per cent of pensioners were classified as living in poverty a decade ago, that is now down to 17 per cent.

It is possible, on the one hand, to recognise the very real issue of pensioner poverty, while also pointing out that there are huge numbers of middle-class pensioners who have done tremendously well out of the housing market, for example, and who are now providing rather good custom to Saga and the QEII - "SKI-ing" (Spending the Kids' Inheritance) their way through a golden retirement.

This is the economics of the age we live in, a political time bomb that parties ignore at their peril. David Willetts, the Conservatives' licensed freethinker, has floated the idea of generational tensions replacing class difference. Some Lib Dem activists are debating it, one of them blogging recently: "Already half of the tax the under-35s pay is being spent on pensions, healthcare and social services for the elderly, and this burden will increase with demographic change. Younger generations are beginning to perceive this as generational theft on a massive scale." Some point out that the money for supporting asset-poor pensioners may be more sensibly found from a wealth tax on cruise-addicted middle-class pensioners, rather than younger workers. Labour supporters, meanwhile, point out that the government has spent more on the younger generation through investment in schools, although single, childless young adults are not the winners in Labour's quiet redistributions.

The economic impact of this glut of postwar children is familiar to those in the City, who refer to it as the "pig in the pipe" - the visible signs of the baby boomers charging through the decades. They embraced social liberalism, flower power and a large state when they were teenagers, and low taxes, a smaller state and loadsamoney individualism in their period of high disposable income. Then, on the realisation of their own mortality, up goes spending on the health service and pensions. Fifty- t0 64-year-olds have the largest carbon footprints - 20 per cent bigger than other age groups' - although they care the most about climate change, a phenomenon that will not affect them.

Ultimately, as pensioners take the justifiable decision to fight for their rights, it should be no surprise that younger generations do the same. But they have yet to do so in Britain. Weale suggests they may be too busy working, or don't believe in politics. Either way, apathy is costing them.

Or is it poetic justice that live-for-today youngsters are losing out to a selfish generation? Perhaps we are seeing the scary sight of a generation that has been rather brutal in getting its own way squeezing everything it can out of its children.

Faisal Islam - Economics correspondent, Channel Four News

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
They probably were smoking lots of pot and having free unabandoned sex in the 1960s also. Mini-skirts, feminism had yet to thoroughly screw the majority of women into 'constantly unhappy not knowing what they want but blaming everything on Men' types and the streets were clean.

I've been saying for years that the baby boomers are greedy sods who have been systematically destroying the country. You cannot move in the BBC for them and I am begining to think they are an Evil in our Society that needs to be taken out and destroyed! :blink:

I think many will be bankrupt from housing investments soon

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There are a lot of people in their 30s, let alone their 20s, who'd kill for that sort of opportunity now.

Yeah right! If they're that desperate they can pop out some sprogs and go live on benefits and get given a house. Believe it or not, there were moments in history where things were not all roses.

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What about those who whine about paying increased Council tax, money spent on bus passes for unproductive veterans and NHS supported living corpses and yet quite happy when the value(sic) of their house rises all out of proportion

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Yeah right! If they're that desperate they can pop out some sprogs and go live on benefits and get given a house. Believe it or not, there were moments in history where things were not all roses.

We're talking about buying houses, not being "given" one. And where did I say things haven't been hard in the past? My point simply is that there are lots of people now who would give a great deal for the chance to buy a run-down terrace house and do it up, meaning people in their 30s, let alone their 20s. Whatever your parents' situation might have been I can't see why you can't accept that with good grace.

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No, They went down the pub, had friends round and asked them instead, there was a real community and not an online one

Hmm. I remember that. Before the councils drew all those yellow lines and parking bays everywhere you used to be able to invite friends round. Those were the days.

It's easy to forget how much has been stolen from us without even a protest.

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We're talking about buying houses, not being "given" one. And where did I say things haven't been hard in the past? My point simply is that there are lots of people now who would give a great deal for the chance to buy a run-down terrace house and do it up, meaning people in their 30s, let alone their 20s. Whatever your parents' situation might have been I can't see why you can't accept that with good grace.

Because Munro I know plenty of people who have bought run down terraced houses (on low wages) in the past 3 or 4 years, and they're facing some of the same hardships and difficulties as some of the people back then. I appreciate the situation is tough now, but the market seems to be going through a readjustment phase. All we can do is adjust to circumstances, and either rent and weather the storm, buy and be in debt, or emmigrate.

Edited by crash-and-burn

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I am 31, I envy my parents in some ways

1. They didn't have to speculate over house prices

2. They didn't have to go to forums and read up on posts/messages whether it's good time to buy or not

3. They bought their house to start a family not to make an investment

4. Lots of people of my age don't have a place they can call home unless they go back to their parents

I do and dont - for all the bad stuff about the present there are a lot of opportunities available to us now that werent around for the last generation.

Travel is very easy and comparatively cheap - my parents were (for a while) pretty well off and middle class and they couldnt afford many foreign holidays. There are a lot more career opportunities also - though the jobs arent that secure.

And er, I was going to come up with a long list of all the benefits we have now but I cant think of anything else. The internet?

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I am 31, I envy my parents in some ways

1. They didn't have to speculate over house prices

2. They didn't have to go to forums and read up on posts/messages whether it's good time to buy or not

3. They bought their house to start a family not to make an investment

4. Lots of people of my age don't have a place they can call home unless they go back to their parents

You may not realise it --- but you & many others are the victims of something that is so big it is simply amazing how they don't know about it..... It has caused the biggest bubble [probably] ever in the housing "market" -- and it has been the cause of the "credit crunch" - the consequences of which we are just starting to feel now... yet to feel the worst...... It is the biggest Elephant - nay MAMMOTH - in the room..... and it is summed up in just 2 words. Sometimes it's called Mortgage Fraud....

A better name is

LIAR LOANS.

They are at the root of EVERYTHING.

Edited by eric pebble

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And er, I was going to come up with a long list of all the benefits we have now but I cant think of anything else. The internet?

Cars that don't rust through from the inside 3 days after you get them home?

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  • 292 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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