Dinner Party Boasters

[Biffo the Bear]

From the other thread re. schools, a bit of random stream of consciousness.

I must admit that I've taken some delight in recent months with the amount of people who, whilst previously harping on about their new-found house-based fortune, are mostly now admitting that they're struggling.

One thing I hate is that when people brag and make such a big deal about things that are denied to a lot of people, and they know about it. The air of false security around the whole HPI that everyone bought into really used to get on my nerves, especially when I'd put it as politely as possible about it being mathematically impossible for there to be an infinite increase in a finite system.

Anyway, the wormeth doth indeed turn, and although there's an element of schadenfreude when I hear people about the situations that they're in, I do realise that some of them are my friends and I do have some sympathy.

However, my prudence over the last few years in boom-time with a view to the current situation unfolding has left me in a very healthy position, and I can't say that I didn't try to warn anyone. I guess ultimately you have to look out for number one.

[Methodius]

Anyway, the wormeth doth indeed turn, and although there's an element of schadenfreude when I hear people about the situations that they're in, I do realise that some of them are my friends and I do have some sympathy.

Be humble and accept that they were wrong and you were right. There is nothing to be gained from their pain.

[The Masked Tulip]

M&S do nice ones but they are a tad pricey. Tesco surprsingly do very nice ones but they are also a tad too much. Oh, I thought you meant coasters!

[Converted Lurker]

good call, here's a put down, folks that have just bought a new car, big merc or X5 costing 500 quid per month on a personal contract, "how much, fukc me, that buys you a krugerand a month, what's worse is your car depreciates by 500 quid a month, so you're actually losing a grand a month and in three years time you'll have no equity in the car once you come to p-ex it" - muppets

[salamander]

M&S do nice ones but they are a tad pricey. Tesco surprsingly do very nice ones but they are also a tad too much. Oh, I thought you meant coasters!

I thought he was talking about these:

[MongerOfDoom]

good call, here's a put down, folks that have just bought a new car, big merc or X5 costing 500 quid per month on a personal contract, "how much, fukc me, that buys you a krugerand a month, what's worse is your car depreciates by 500 quid a month, so you're actually losing a grand a month and in three years time you'll have no equity in the car once you come to p-ex it" - muppets

You cannot add the figures. In the example the car really costs just UKP500 a month plus interest. Almost anyone with a professional job could afford that. BTW, I doubt that an X5 would depreciate by only that much from new, especially if not a basic model.

[conifer]

All mass-prosuced cars depreciate until they become rarities, after 20 or more years.

In China, apparently, the same is true of new houses. I saw a programme where an estate of 'English style' houses in Shanghai or somewhere remained largely unoccupied because new houses lose value once they've been lived in. So people who've bought them as investments keep them empty!! Very different twist.

[Biffo the Bear]

Oh you wags!

What I find intriguing is that many are putting the sole blame on the 'credit crunch'. It's kind of understandable given that this is what the media is pumping out left, right and centre. But we'd be stuffed without a credit crunch; all that has served to do is fast forward us to what would've inevitably have happened once the pyramid had gone kaput.

I'm not really telling you anything new here am I?

[Guest An Bearin Bui]

Be humble and accept that they were wrong and you were right. There is nothing to be gained from their pain.

By the sounds of it, they weren't humble about the vast wealth a chance economic blip had bestowed on them so why should the OP be humble about being better-informed and cannier than they are? Obviously you wouldn't want to sink to their level in terms of insufferable middle-class smugness but being quietly self-satisfied should be allowed. HPC-ers have certainly waited long enough to finally be right! I say, gloat away Biffo...

[cynic]

Be humble and accept that they were wrong and you were right. There is nothing to be gained from their pain.

You must be joking.

Stick to what you know....

Edited March 8, 2008 by cynic

[Converted Lurker]

You cannot add the figures. In the example the car really costs just UKP500 a month plus interest. Almost anyone with a professional job could afford that. BTW, I doubt that an X5 would depreciate by only that much from new, especially if not a basic model.

Ok new price of X5 = 50K

http://www.williamsgroup.co.uk/UsedCars/Us...E4A832159985AB2

second hand price of X5 in 4 years = 23K

http://www.williamsgroup.co.uk/UsedCars/Us...p;x=42&y=16

cost on a 4 year finance deal = 500 per month = 24K

depreciation over 4 years = 27K

So, pay 500 quid a month to incur a loss of 27K - genius, but heh, what 'professional' wouldn't want that? After all, think how good it looks up the path perhaps drivers of such are in it for the long term

[Biffo the Bear]

By the sounds of it, they weren't humble about the vast wealth a chance economic blip had bestowed on them so why should the OP be humble about being better-informed and cannier than they are? Obviously you wouldn't want to sink to their level in terms of insufferable middle-class smugness but being quietly self-satisfied should be allowed. HPC-ers have certainly waited long enough to finally be right! I say, gloat away Biffo...

Why thank you kind sir

I must say that the sense of insufferable middle-class smugness, or perhaps more accurately faux-middle class, is precisly the thing that has irked me the most. Someone I know even started to draw out their r's in conversation (glarse, clarse) after they'd had something of a bingo deal on a house, and it just made me realise that there's such a sense of fake self-worth that goes with fake prosperity. All these people suddenly feeling empowered by right of perceived wealth as opposed to deed; ahh... it makes sense in such a pathetic way.

For all the rights reasons, society needs a bust. A big bust. And not just one that you can happily fall asleep on at bedtime.

False prosperity is such a divisive part of the whole equation.

[GBdamo]

Ok new price of X5 = 50K

http://www.williamsgroup.co.uk/UsedCars/Us...E4A832159985AB2

second hand price of X5 in 4 years = 23K

http://www.williamsgroup.co.uk/UsedCars/Us...p;x=42&y=16

cost on a 4 year finance deal = 500 per month = 24K

depreciation over 4 years = 27K

So, pay 500 quid a month to incur a loss of 27K - genius, but heh, what 'professional' wouldn't want that? After all, think how good it looks up the path perhaps drivers of such are in it for the long term

Not quite, what they have done is pay £500 a month for the services of a luxury vehicle for 4 years. I'm guessing it one of those lease deals, if so depreciation has got nothing to do with them.

Damo

edit, there is a p in depreciation

Edited March 8, 2008 by GBdamo

[red]

Maybe the new dinner party boast will be "how quickly we sold our portfolio..."

[Converted Lurker]

Not quite, what they have done is pay £500 a month for the services of a luxury vehicle for 4 years. I'm guessing it one of those lease deals, if so depreciation has got nothing to do with them.

Damo

edit, there is a p in depreciation

Sigh, OK, let's try again:

typical example of the many I have dealt with in the past,

Price 50K, deposit 20K (usually mew cash, I kid you not), remaining finance 30K at 9% over 4 years = £682 per month. car worth 27K once you've paid for it. So you've lost 27K in depreciation and you've paid £682 per month. Now you can alter figures, the 50K car, but trust me on this, the example I have quoted is very very common

[Methinkshe]

Or, some champagne socialists might re-discover their socialist roots and start using the local comprehensive school once they run out of MEWing capacity to pay private school fees, instead of insisting it provides a fine education for everyone else's children, while eschewing it for their own offspring. T'would be nice to see such hypocrites having to live by their words - especially the likes of Diane Abbott MP.

[MongerOfDoom]

So, pay 500 quid a month to incur a loss of 27K - genius, but heh, what 'professional' wouldn't want that? After all, think how good it looks up the path perhaps drivers of such are in it for the long term

I think you misunderstand. A status-conscious muppet takes a 50k loan to buy a car. After 4 years there is 50-12*500*4=26k plus interest outstanding. He has a car worth 23k. He can liquidate the position for 3k plus interest (sell car, repay loan and 3k in negative equity). Hence the total cost is 27k over four years plus interest. He did *not* pay 24k in addition to that cost, it is already included. A non-trivial proportion of the population (probably about 10% of those in full time employment) can afford to spend 7k a year on car depreciation.

BTW, my car costs less than UKP100 pm (insurance, depreciation, servicing, tyres, tax, etc.) plus petrol.

[Converted Lurker]

I think you misunderstand. A status-conscious muppet takes a 50k loan to buy a car. After 4 years there is 50-12*500*4=26k plus interest outstanding. He has a car worth 23k. He can liquidate the position for 3k plus interest (sell car, repay loan and 3k in negative equity). Hence the total cost is 27k over four years plus interest. He did *not* pay 24k in addition to that cost, it is already included. A non-trivial proportion of the population (probably about 10% of those in full time employment) can afford to spend 7k a year on car depreciation.

BTW, my car costs less than UKP100 pm (insurance, depreciation, servicing, tyres, tax, etc.) plus petrol.

see quote/post above for typical BMW finance examples

[General Melchett]

So glad I don't subscribe to the car = status (or indeed, anything at all other than personal transport) game.

Been waiting for someone to come over all superior about my 10 year old Corrolla vs their Bourgois-mobile, just so I can gobsmack them with the real size of my wad and ask how much debt they are in by way of comparison, but the nearest I've got so far was when some canny bystander correctly observed that the bike I was taking out the back of my car was worth more than the car, so maybe I'd spent just a little too much on my bike?

Edited March 8, 2008 by General Melchett

[Loggy]

Sigh, OK, let's try again:

typical example of the many I have dealt with in the past,

Price 50K, deposit 20K (usually mew cash, I kid you not), remaining finance 30K at 9% over 4 years = £682 per month. car worth 27K once you've paid for it. So you've lost 27K in depreciation and you've paid £682 per month. Now you can alter figures, the 50K car, but trust me on this, the example I have quoted is very very common

I would imagine few people do this , many companies do, but very few people, only the very very stupid, or rich, in which case it means nothing to them.

[thecrashingisles]

I would imagine few people do this , many companies do, but very few people, only the very very stupid, or rich, in which case it means nothing to them.

No I think it's very common. The very rich don't need to take out a loan to buy a car.

[Ah-so]

So glad I don't subscribe to the car = status (or indeed, anything at all other than personal transport) game.

Been waiting for someone to come over all superior about my 10 year old Corrolla vs their Bourgois-mobile, just so I can gobsmack them with the real size of my wad and ask how much debt they are in by way of comparison, but the nearest I've got so far was when some canny bystander correctly observed that the bike I was taking out the back of my car was worth more than the car, so maybe I'd spent just a little too much on my bike?

Well my Corrolla is 17 years old.

[#1 on West side]

BTW, my car costs less than UKP100 pm (insurance, depreciation, servicing, tyres, tax, etc.) plus petrol.

In other words, you are back at the GBP500 figure when you include petrol

Edited March 8, 2008 by new2HPC

[cartimandua51]

Does ANYBODY else care about this argument??

[Little Professor]

Does ANYBODY else care about this argument??

No.