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Marcos Scriven

If Things Continue To Get Worse, Would It Be Better For Us To Join The Eurozone?

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One of the principle reasons we didn't adopt the Euro was to do with the rate.

Now that's going down, would it be a good idea for us to join?

Just to let you know, I'm pretty much pro-Euro anyway...

A much better idea to stop using violence full stop I think, rather than trying to use it to get the right result.

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One of the principle reasons we didn't adopt the Euro was to do with the rate.

Now that's going down, would it be a good idea for us to join?

Just to let you know, I'm pretty much pro-Euro anyway...

No, of course not. As we are beginning to see, the euro experiment has been a disaster in some countries. A free floating exchange rate is a release valve for trade imbalances. Why would we want to give that up?

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No, of course not. As we are beginning to see, the euro experiment has been a disaster in some countries. A free floating exchange rate is a release valve for trade imbalances. Why would we want to give that up?

Would it not be better to be part of a stronger whole?

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Erm, that's a slightly oblique comment - I'm not sure what you mean? :unsure:

Well, let's say you want to go" into europe" (whatever that means). The only way you can get a mythical "we" to go along with you is by using violence. Otherwise it's just a choice and not even worth talking about.

All fiat currency only has value because of taxation - i.e. threats, coercion, eventual violence.

I think that removing or not using threats, coercion and violence are a good idea. I don't think trying to use them for a new purpose is particularly helpful. In fact, it's a rather dangerous fantasy.

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Well, let's say you want to go" into europe" (whatever that means). The only way you can get a mythical "we" to go along with you is by using violence. Otherwise it's just a choice and not even worth talking about.

All fiat currency only has value because of taxation - i.e. threats, coercion, eventual violence.

I think that removing or not using threats, coercion and violence are a good idea. I don't think trying to use them for a new purpose is particularly helpful. In fact, it's a rather dangerous fantasy.

Hang on a minute - I was talking about the Eurozone - Ie the European currency.

This is a complete non-sequitur!!

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Hang on a minute - I was talking about the Eurozone - Ie the European currency.

This is a complete non-sequitur!!

The euro, like all fiat currency, only exists because of violence.

Knock it off entirely is my thinking.

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No, of course not. As we are beginning to see, the euro experiment has been a disaster in some countries. A free floating exchange rate is a release valve for trade imbalances. Why would we want to give that up?

My history's a little rusty - what motivated New York and California to join the Union?

edit: -= boneheadedness

Edited by ParticleMan

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One of the principle reasons we didn't adopt the Euro was to do with the rate.

Now that's going down, would it be a good idea for us to join?

Just to let you know, I'm pretty much pro-Euro anyway...

The euro would be fine as long as we join at a competitive rate and they don't let it get stupidly strong. Like now for example.

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I never quite understood why the Euro was implemented as it was. Would it not have been better for each member country to issue Euros (bare with me) but call them by the name of their original currency? What I mean is, the French would have issued French Euros (francs), the Germans would have German Euros (marks), the British would have issued British Euros (pounds) etc. They could all have Euro markings on one side and national identifying markings on the other, e.g. in Britain the queen; in France an onion etc. Initially these would have been released into the economies of origin, but as they were all “Euros” they would be accepted all over Europe. Now it might initially occur that German Euros were “worth more” than, say, Italian Euros but over time, as member economies harmonised through trade this arbitrage situation would decrease. This plan would have the following benefits

1) The desirability of different types of Euros initially would have the benefit of a floating exchange mechanism.

2) Encourage the harmonisation of economies across the Union through trade rather than politics.

3) The cross border benefits of a single currency.

4) Keep the currency "I love the queen, me" nationalists happy ‘cos they still have “pound Euros” etc.

5) No need for a single central Euro bank.

It seems that the imposition of a rigid Euro across the Union has not been flexible enough to accommodate the different economies of the member states. I like my plan… except now its too late :D

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I never quite understood why the Euro was implemented as it was. Would it not have been better for each member country to issue Euros (bare with me) but call them by the name of their original currency? What I mean is, the French would have issued French Euros (francs), the Germans would have German Euros (marks), the British would have issued British Euros (pounds) etc. They could all have Euro markings on one side and national identifying markings on the other, e.g. in Britain the queen; in France an onion etc. Initially these would have been released into the economies of origin, but as they were all “Euros” they would be accepted all over Europe. Now it might initially occur that German Euros were “worth more” than, say, Italian Euros but over time, as member economies harmonised through trade this arbitrage situation would decrease. This plan would have the following benefits

1) The desirability of different types of Euros initially would have the benefit of a floating exchange mechanism.

2) Encourage the harmonisation of economies across the Union through trade rather than politics.

3) The cross border benefits of a single currency.

4) Keep the currency "I love the queen, me" nationalists happy ‘cos they still have “pound Euros” etc.

5) No need for a single central Euro bank.

It seems that the imposition of a rigid Euro across the Union has not been flexible enough to accommodate the different economies of the member states. I like my plan… except now its too late :D

It's just about more power and control for the bankers and their various minions. That's all. Rigid control is what it's all about.

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I never quite understood why the Euro was implemented as it was. Would it not have been better for each member country to issue Euros (bare with me) but call them by the name of their original currency? What I mean is, the French would have issued French Euros (francs), the Germans would have German Euros (marks), the British would have issued British Euros (pounds) etc. They could all have Euro markings on one side and national identifying markings on the other, e.g. in Britain the queen; in France an onion etc. Initially these would have been released into the economies of origin, but as they were all “Euros” they would be accepted all over Europe. Now it might initially occur that German Euros were “worth more” than, say, Italian Euros but over time, as member economies harmonised through trade this arbitrage situation would decrease. This plan would have the following benefits

1) The desirability of different types of Euros initially would have the benefit of a floating exchange mechanism.

2) Encourage the harmonisation of economies across the Union through trade rather than politics.

3) The cross border benefits of a single currency.

4) Keep the currency "I love the queen, me" nationalists happy ‘cos they still have “pound Euros” etc.

5) No need for a single central Euro bank.

It seems that the imposition of a rigid Euro across the Union has not been flexible enough to accommodate the different economies of the member states. I like my plan… except now its too late :D

Oh my goodness, I tried to "bare with you", I really did :)

You can't possibly say you could have one currency that has different values - there would be a gargantuan arbitrage opportunity!!!!

But the idea of having different notes tied at the same rate has been done - it went terribly wrong when we tried to peg GBP to the DM for instance. And countries that joined the Euro kept their notes for a year while they pegged the currency's rate at the same time...

Edited by Marcos Scriven

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I never quite understood why the Euro was implemented as it was.

The Euro was never about physical currency. Think harmonisation of government borrowing. Without this, there's no change at all from the previous status quo.

But harmonisation of government borrowing without harmonisation of government (and probably, reduction of both too) is a Furphy.

Since launch we've had the appearance of the latter. But that's mostly an accident, a mishap of a rising market. In time, each sovereign cook will be reaching for their own national seasoning.

Perhaps we'll reduce the number of cooks to one. Perhaps we'll increase the number of soups on the boil. Or perhaps we'll just spoil the broth.

Edited by ParticleMan

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The problem with a single currency is it makes it blatantly obvious that people in southern Europe are lazy and unproductive compared with northern Europe, and their economies suffer considerable stress if you try and shoehorn them into the same economic system.

I bet they are happier though.

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Oh my goodness, I tried to "bare with you", I really did :)

You can't possibly say you could have one currency that has different values - there would be a gargantuan arbitrage opportunity!!!!

But the idea of having different notes tied at the same rate has been done - it went terribly wrong when we tried to peg GBP to the DM for instance. And countries that joined the Euro kept their notes for a year while they pegged the currency's rate at the same time...

Heh heh, thanks Marcos :)

In my fantasy Euro scheme I would have introduced 1 German Euro = 1 French Euro = 1 British Euro etc. Any arbitrage opportunities that arose would have been due to the competitiveness of the member state economies (forcing prices down locally) but would have been closed by harmonisation of trade across the Zone. Obviously it would have taken time to settle down and there would have initially been currency arbitrage opportunities - but then there always is between different floating currencies. I still like my plan :)

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people in southern Europe are lazy and unproductive compared with northern Europe

Nothing like a good stereotype, eh ?

Keep taking the pills ;)

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  • 295 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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