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[i don't know that I'm posting this in the right place, but couldn't really think of anywhere better. Feel free to move it to a more appropriate sub-forum if you can think of a more suitable one.]

I've recently been contemplating buying some woodland. Partly, I like the idea of having a little bit (maybe an acre or three) of my own woodland just for recreational purposes -- a bit of camping or getting away from the proverbial 'all'. :)

I'm not really considering it as an investment, although I would quite like the money to do at least as well as I might be able to do from a bank account, i.e. to net at least, say, 5%.

Does anyone have any views on owning woodland, either as a life-enrichment exercise or as a (modest) investment?

Thanks in advance!

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[i don't know that I'm posting this in the right place, but couldn't really think of anywhere better. Feel free to move it to a more appropriate sub-forum if you can think of a more suitable one.]

I've recently been contemplating buying some woodland. Partly, I like the idea of having a little bit (maybe an acre or three) of my own woodland just for recreational purposes -- a bit of camping or getting away from the proverbial 'all'. :)

I'm not really considering it as an investment, although I would quite like the money to do at least as well as I might be able to do from a bank account, i.e. to net at least, say, 5%.

Does anyone have any views on owning woodland, either as a life-enrichment exercise or as a (modest) investment?

Thanks in advance!

I have no experience but I have looked into the same thing.

I have considered also going in with a few friends to buy a larger piece.

.

I have assumed though that when the market for property slopes off that some of the value of woodland which may be speculative will disapear. With that in mind I am going to wait a few years before I buy.

.

ST

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[i don't know that I'm posting this in the right place, but couldn't really think of anywhere better. Feel free to move it to a more appropriate sub-forum if you can think of a more suitable one.]

I've recently been contemplating buying some woodland. Partly, I like the idea of having a little bit (maybe an acre or three) of my own woodland just for recreational purposes -- a bit of camping or getting away from the proverbial 'all'. :)

I'm not really considering it as an investment, although I would quite like the money to do at least as well as I might be able to do from a bank account, i.e. to net at least, say, 5%.

Does anyone have any views on owning woodland, either as a life-enrichment exercise or as a (modest) investment?

Thanks in advance!

You've definitely asked at the right place; several regular posters here have places up in the Montana hills where they've dug bunkers full of baked beans tins and shotgun shells.

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Guest Steve Cook

I recently sold my house and have released the capital. I am now renting. I am looking to buy land somewhere in Europe. The UK looks pretty much out of the question given the land prices here. This includes woodland as well unless you are looking at the ghastly monoculture plantations in the highlands of Scotland, and they are still not very cheap.

My central thesis is that we hit peak energy in 2005 and are now probably coming off the top of that peak. In due course, over the next few years, the only and final commodity that will retain and improve on its value is land. It will just come down to the simple facts/economics of local food production. I wish to purchase land for myself and my family while there is still time. I would reccomend you look to land less as being a lifestyle choice and more as being a life insurance policy for yourself and your family in the decades to come.

Steve

Edited by Steve Cook

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Slightly related - does anyone on here have any idea where agricultural land prices will go? Do you think they will follow house prices down or will they be more resilient?

Times are hard for farmers - pig, dairy and beef farmers are producing their products at a loss. Many are over-borrowed, too.

I'd be interested to hear any opinions, especially from anyone who is involved in agriculture in some way.

Edited for typo.

Edited by Methinkshe

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[i don't know that I'm posting this in the right place, but couldn't really think of anywhere better. Feel free to move it to a more appropriate sub-forum if you can think of a more suitable one.]

I've recently been contemplating buying some woodland. Partly, I like the idea of having a little bit (maybe an acre or three) of my own woodland just for recreational purposes -- a bit of camping or getting away from the proverbial 'all'. :)

I'm not really considering it as an investment, although I would quite like the money to do at least as well as I might be able to do from a bank account, i.e. to net at least, say, 5%.

Does anyone have any views on owning woodland, either as a life-enrichment exercise or as a (modest) investment?

Thanks in advance!

You've probably found this already but; http://woodlands.co.uk/

I've wondered about woodland and how much grief/responsibility there may be in ownership from a conservation regulation, local byelaw, trespass prevention, maintenance, parish covenant, planning authority and taxation type off angle.

But only when I'm being miserable.

Certainly, prices seem 'reasonable' next to houses.

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Guest Steve Cook
Slightly related - does anyone on here have any idea where agricultural land prices will go? Do you think they will follow house prices down or will they be more resilient?

Times are hard for farmers - pig, dairy and beef farmers are producing their products at a loss. Many are over-borrowed, too.

I'd be interested to hear any opinions, especially from anyone who is involved in agriculture in some way.

Edited for typo.

In the very short term....I am hoping that undeveloped farm land will drop along with other real estate values.

This may be true for developed famland in the short term...but I am less confident about this

In the long term...I believe that all arable land (developed and undeveloped) will rise inexorably in price. It will, in the end, beat all other commodities

All of the urban dwellers, who currently rely for their food supply on factory (oil driven) farming are stuffed only a few years from now. There will be hunger and then real starvation in the West in less than 30 years from now. I genuinely believe that if you don't buy enough land to feed yourself and your family (ideally with some land left over to be able to grow and sell your surplus produce locally) in the next few years, the eventual price will forever preclude such ownership

Steve

Edited by Steve Cook

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I recently sold my house and have released the capital. I am now renting. I am looking to buy land somewhere in Europe. The UK looks pretty much out of the question given the land prices here. This includes woodland as well unless you are looking at the ghastly monoculture plantations in the highlands of Scotland, and they are still not very cheap.

My central thesis is that we hit peak energy in 2005 and are now probably coming off the top of that peak. In due course, over the next few years, the only and final commodity that will retain and improve on its value is land. It will just come down to the simple facts/economics of local food production. I wish to purchase land for myself and my family while there is still time. I would reccomend you look to land less as being a lifestyle choice and more as being a life insurance policy for yourself and your family in the decades to come.

Steve i sold a terraced house in 2006 for £135,000 and was supprised that i could buy 40 acres of prime ag land for the same price. it is the best investment i have ever made i rent the land for £3000 per year and i get single farm payment of nearly £4000 per year plus i retain the shooting rights i cannot think why the btl have not cottoned on a lot less hasle than tennants,ho i forgot you cannot borrow funny money on land

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Guest Skint Academic

If we manage to buy enough land when we finally get our own place in the highlands of Scotland, we'll definitely be setting some aside for coppicing if it isn't already forested. The idea with coppicing is that when you cut down a tree the roots are still in place for it to recover. The tree quickly grows again and in a few years time you can harvest more wood from it. We primarily want to use this for energy. So use an AGA cooker and you can heat the house, cook a nice vegetable broth an heat up water for a bath in one go. But I am also going to look at whether I can harvest the wood for use in carpentry as I think wood-working skills will be critical for a small holder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coppice

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When i was at school i used to help manage a small woodland by a river that we grew and sold willow for cricket bat manufacture. I have no idea what the trees are worth now, but i seem to recall that we got about 400 pounds a tree. It was hard work maintaining the area (about an acre) but very rewarding. The land cant have been worth a great deal as it was right next to a flooding river and useless for anything other than growing willow. But in the spring it was the most beautiful place you could imagine. I would love to own such a plot.

Edited by King Stromba

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You've definitely asked at the right place; several regular posters here have places up in the Montana hills where they've dug bunkers full of baked beans tins and shotgun shells.

This is an eminently sensible course of action. Both ammunition and food will be hard to come by.

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Woodland is also exempt for inheritance tax purposes just incase you didn't know.

I have looked at buying some off the beaten track land in Italy, if you stay away from the tourist areas there are plenty of places with reasonable reasouces avaiable for a decent price....just not in this country!

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In the very short term....I am hoping that undeveloped farm land will drop along with other real estate values.

This may be true for developed famland in the short term...but I am less confident about this

In the long term...I believe that all arable land (developed and undeveloped) will rise inexorably in price. It will, in the end, beat all other commodities

All of the urban dwellers, who currently rely for their food supply on factory (oil driven) farming are stuffed only a few years from now. There will be hunger and then real starvation in the West in less than 30 years from now. I genuinely believe that if you don't buy enough land to feed yourself and your family (ideally with some land left over to be able to grow and sell your surplus produce locally) in the next few years, the eventual price will forever preclude such ownership

Steve

Strange thinking, just like my parents, except they did it 40 years ago (threat of nukes, oil shock etc). And guess what? Nothing serious happened. You relly need to get out more (to other countries) and see how the rest of the world lives. No matter how hard done by everyone on here thinks they are, in reality we are very near the top in the world in terms of power, wealth, resourcefulness, technology, innovation. Many other countries will suffer serious hardship/ large population declines before we need to be seriously worried about food supply.

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Interesting Steve. What are your views on Vertical Farming ?

I've been researching it quite a bit recently and it looks promising to me.

They seem to be gaining general support and the figures I've seen appear

to be economical for a city level population density.

In the very short term....I am hoping that undeveloped farm land will drop along with other real estate values.

This may be true for developed famland in the short term...but I am less confident about this

In the long term...I believe that all arable land (developed and undeveloped) will rise inexorably in price. It will, in the end, beat all other commodities

All of the urban dwellers, who currently rely for their food supply on factory (oil driven) farming are stuffed only a few years from now. There will be hunger and then real starvation in the West in less than 30 years from now. I genuinely believe that if you don't buy enough land to feed yourself and your family (ideally with some land left over to be able to grow and sell your surplus produce locally) in the next few years, the eventual price will forever preclude such ownership

Steve

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I do agree with you. However, I think Britain needs to be worried about the recent projections on how quickly it will fall down the power, wealth, resourcefulness, technology and innovation tables. It's difficult to sort of media sensationalism from hard facts, but on a personal level, too many of the members of society my age and younger (I'm just nudging 30) are lacking in too many of the basic requirements to maintain Britain's power, wealth, resourcefulness, technological prowess and innovation.

Strange thinking, just like my parents, except they did it 40 years ago (threat of nukes, oil shock etc). And guess what? Nothing serious happened. You relly need to get out more (to other countries) and see how the rest of the world lives. No matter how hard done by everyone on here thinks they are, in reality we are very near the top in the world in terms of power, wealth, resourcefulness, technology, innovation. Many other countries will suffer serious hardship/ large population declines before we need to be seriously worried about food supply.

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Guest X-QUORK
All of the urban dwellers, who currently rely for their food supply on factory (oil driven) farming are stuffed only a few years from now. There will be hunger and then real starvation in the West in less than 30 years from now. I genuinely believe that if you don't buy enough land to feed yourself and your family (ideally with some land left over to be able to grow and sell your surplus produce locally) in the next few years, the eventual price will forever preclude such ownership

Steve

I understand your reasoning, but if things do get as bad as you predict I'm convinced the government of the day would issue compulsory purchase orders on all land capable of growing food.

You also have to question the morals of grabbing a finite resource just for yourself. No better than the amatuer BTL brigade.

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I understand your reasoning, but if things do get as bad as you predict I'm convinced the government of the day would issue compulsory purchase orders on all land capable of growing food.

They didn't do this in WW2, so I doubt they'd do it now. Require everyone to dig up their gardens for veg growing, yes - presumably allocating it in some way to someone else if you were unable (eg because you're 95!) to do it. Too much evidence from E Europe, Russia & China that communal farming seriously doesn't work well.

What the hell is Vertical Farming???

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Guest Skint Academic
They didn't do this in WW2, so I doubt they'd do it now.

Agreed. Allotments were used to grow food during the world wars.

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It's amazing really, isn't it, that in the space of a decade we've gone from widespread optimism and "things can onkly get better" to people seriously contemplating that the UK might decline to such levels that subsistence farming may become a reality again. That growing feeling of malaise in the country at the moment is palpable.

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In the very short term....I am hoping that undeveloped farm land will drop along with other real estate values.

This may be true for developed famland in the short term...but I am less confident about this

In the long term...I believe that all arable land (developed and undeveloped) will rise inexorably in price. It will, in the end, beat all other commodities

All of the urban dwellers, who currently rely for their food supply on factory (oil driven) farming are stuffed only a few years from now. There will be hunger and then real starvation in the West in less than 30 years from now. I genuinely believe that if you don't buy enough land to feed yourself and your family (ideally with some land left over to be able to grow and sell your surplus produce locally) in the next few years, the eventual price will forever preclude such ownership

Steve

I agree that owning a sufficient acreage of arable land to feed one's family is a wise course. I actually did this back in 1989/90 - sold my house in a small market town and purchased a property with 5 acres. However, the expected global bust never materialised - house prices were re-inflated - and I was 18 years too early!

My now grown-up family is seriously looking at buying a mixture of woodland and arable land - say about 20 acres, but I'm undecided whether now is the right time to buy or whether agricultural land prices will drop along with house prices. I think the credit crunch could make it very hard for farmers who exist on overdrafts. During the last HPC many business overdrafts were called in by banks. I get the feeling that some farmers may be forced to sell-up, if not all their land, then a part of it, to meet bank demands for repayment of overdrafts. This would have a depressing effect on ag land prices. However, against that there must be a growing awareness of global food shortages - especially grain. I'm not sure how these two opposing factors might play out. I have already noticed a lot of sale boards around where I live (Cornwall/Devon border) for smallish parcels of ag land which hints to me that there may already be some forced selling to meet overdrfat repayments. However, land prices are still very high - between £5,000 and £10,000 per acre. At least, that's the asking price. I mus admit I haven't checked out if this is still the sale price.

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Guest X-QUORK
They didn't do this in WW2, so I doubt they'd do it now. Require everyone to dig up their gardens for veg growing, yes - presumably allocating it in some way to someone else if you were unable (eg because you're 95!) to do it. Too much evidence from E Europe, Russia & China that communal farming seriously doesn't work well.

Indeed, private land was forcibly taken from farmers during WWII, under the powers of the County War Agricultural Committees. In one instance, a farmer was shot dead for refusing to hand over his land:

Read the full story here

Do you honestly believe you'd be allowed to use your land solely for your own use if the nation was starving? Think again.

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Indeed, private land was forcibly taken from farmers during WWII, under the powers of the County War Agricultural Committees. In one instance, a farmer was shot dead for refusing to hand over his land:

Read the full story here

Do you honestly believe you'd be allowed to use your land solely for your own use if the nation was starving? Think again.

I think the answer is not to be greedy. Buy just about sufficient land for your own needs (i.e. don't buy 100 acres when you could manage with 5) make sure it is fully cultivated not used as a vanity project - Pony Club type stuff, for instance - and then keep your head down.

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In the very short term....I am hoping that undeveloped farm land will drop along with other real estate values.

This may be true for developed famland in the short term...but I am less confident about this

In the long term...I believe that all arable land (developed and undeveloped) will rise inexorably in price. It will, in the end, beat all other commodities

All of the urban dwellers, who currently rely for their food supply on factory (oil driven) farming are stuffed only a few years from now. There will be hunger and then real starvation in the West in less than 30 years from now. I genuinely believe that if you don't buy enough land to feed yourself and your family (ideally with some land left over to be able to grow and sell your surplus produce locally) in the next few years, the eventual price will forever preclude such ownership

Steve

I was told that your better off getting a property because house prices double every 7 years. So let me think, say i buy a house now for 200,000 Squids on an IO mortgage, by the time 30 years and starvation comes i will be mopping up with about £800,000 capital to spend on as many farms as i want, including a nice big Chelsea Tractor.

Guys, its a no Brainer. Bricks and Mortar every time

luvverly

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Guest Skint Academic
Do you honestly believe you'd be allowed to use your land solely for your own use if the nation was starving? Think again.

You're talking about farms. A small holding is enough to provide for a whole family. If you own a farm then you will have enough to provide for your own family and help feed the nation. The difference being that you can't be rationed whereas everyone else will be.

In the event of a serious flu pandemic Mr Academic and I wouldn't be looking after just ourselves, we expect our friends and relatives to come up and stay with us as well.

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  • 293 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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