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What, Exactly, Is Your Motivation?


handel

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HOLA441
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HOLA442

To the original poster->

Fundamental economics are one thing, but you just seem so bitter.

If we’re just teenage girls why are you taking the time to come here?

I think if you’re honest with yourself, you’ll know the reason.

We’re right and you don’t like it.

You were hoping, let’s say dreaming that your house was going to go up forever and all your hard work was going to lead to a long happy retirement.

You forgot, to think about the people under you, the person you were when you were going up. Now you’re stomping on them like it’s their fault. So short sighted.

Just take sometime, stops posting such comments and think for yourself, look at the data. It’s clear, it’s there, it’s not an opinion, there’s no grey.

It’s simple maths.

Final point, we did not cause the coming HPC.

Edited by kpszip
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HOLA443

I take it you are old enough to realise any forum has members from all walks of life and views, to question HPC forum members on their views is rather staggering. They in general unlike you, don't want unrealistic prices or mortgages, some can't afford to buy a HOME. I have been in property investments for well over 25 years and like you do read some replies from what appears to be bitter people, but why are you so surprised? If anyone thinks otherwise I worked from the age of 16 and made my own way in life through working 6 or 7 days a week. At least I saw the late 1988 / early 1996 crash coming and sold up, I did the same in 2006. Why, because prices could not be sustained and frankly those who though they could be or should, are likely to have deprived a village of its idiot when they last moved. Quite simply house prices are ridiculously high in the UK, it benefits only those with more than one property, no one else, certainly not those on lower incomes and FTB's. Perhaps you should consider the many ill effects of such a market on society. Do you really consider your life benefits from such high mortgages repayments? Having to pay such high levels of stamp duty? How is the FTB's with no wealthy parents to help them out to buy a property? Let's not forget those parents who help the kids also suffer if like you their HOME is their pension. How do the lower paid essential workers in the UK and especially in London get on the property ladder? I have no sympathy with your arguments or moans, you should not be relying on your HOME to provide your pension, that's the basic mistake you have made. You appear to question that you have a right to become wealthier from your home, why do you think you should? I support most members in thinking so many owners are either naive or greedy or both.

A terrible mistake was introducing BTL mortgages, that has done so much damage. I don't blame anyone moving abroad, not that living abroad ensures a better life, normally just better weather. We all know successive governments have all failed to build enough houses where people want to live. These houses be they private, council or housing association need to be affordable. I am not against immigration either, just make sure we have our choice of who comes, who we need and ensure all the infrastructure is in place first.

What really staggers me is your belief that your house was worth or is worth anything other than what someone is willing to pay you for it. You clearly missed the boat, don't blame others including the HPC site, or the members, blame yourself. For almost two years now I predicted prices would crash at least 25%, but hey, that's no more than what they went up the previous 3 years. At that level there still over valued!

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HOLA444

I take it you are old enough to realise any forum has members from all walks of life and views, to question HPC forum members on their views is rather staggering. They in general unlike you, don't want unrealistic prices or mortgages, some can't afford to buy a HOME. I have been in property investments for well over 25 years and like you do read some replies from what appears to be bitter people, but why are you so surprised? If anyone thinks otherwise I worked from the age of 16 and made my own way in life through working 6 or 7 days a week. At least I saw the late 1988 / early 1996 crash coming and sold up, I did the same in 2006. Why, because prices could not be sustained and frankly those who though they could be or should, are likely to have deprived a village of its idiot when they last moved. Quite simply house prices are ridiculously high in the UK, it benefits only those with more than one property, no one else, certainly not those on lower incomes and FTB's. Perhaps you should consider the many ill effects of such a market on society. Do you really consider your life benefits from such high mortgages repayments? Having to pay such high levels of stamp duty? How is the FTB's with no wealthy parents to help them out to buy a property? Let's not forget those parents who help the kids also suffer if like you their HOME is their pension. How do the lower paid essential workers in the UK and especially in London get on the property ladder? I have no sympathy with your arguments or moans, you should not be relying on your HOME to provide your pension, that's the basic mistake you have made. You appear to question that you have a right to become wealthier from your home, why do you think you should? I support most members in thinking so many owners are either naive or greedy or both.

A terrible mistake was introducing BTL mortgages, that has done so much damage. I don't blame anyone moving abroad, not that living abroad ensures a better life, normally just better weather. We all know successive governments have all failed to build enough houses where people want to live. These houses be they private, council or housing association need to be affordable. I am not against immigration either, just make sure we have our choice of who comes, who we need and ensure all the infrastructure is in place first.

What really staggers me is your belief that your house was worth or is worth anything other than what someone is willing to pay you for it. You clearly missed the boat, don't blame others including the HPC site, or the members, blame yourself. For almost two years now I predicted prices would crash at least 25%, but hey, that's no more than what they went up the previous 3 years. At that level there still over valued!

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HOLA445
I have just joined and really want to know - what exactly is the motivation of you people? You seem to take a positive, gleeful joy in the prospect that there might be a house price crash - and, in fact, by your frothings and ravings, you actually encourage this and push it forward!

Are you all people who are hoping to cash in on the hard work and persistence of others - because that's how it seems to me! Are you gleefully sitting back & waiting for huge price falls - which you have, in part, caused - so as to profit from the years of effort put in by others?

My own position is clear: I began with nothing - truly, nothing - no parent or anyone to help me - and when I married, no one gave us any money for a house: but I bought my first home for £11,200 , 30 years ago, and from there on, by dint of sheer HARD WORK (do you people know what that is?) and by putting a huge amount of love, persistence and effort into our successive homes, we managed to buy our present home for £177,500, thirteen years ago.

A few months ago we decided to sell and emigrate, owing to being fed up with the get-something-for-nothing mentality of this country - and we sold our house for £650,000. We had to let those buyers go because of unrelated job problems, so then put the house back on the market. After 6 weeks we have sold again - but at only £575,000, way less than it is worth. And why? NOT BECAUSE PRICES HAVE REALLY, GENUINELY FALLEN THAT MUCH - factually, in our area of North London, the drop has been 0.4% - BUT BECAUSE OF THE PERCEPTIONS CAUSED BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU LOT!

Why do you so much resent people like us, who have made some money on our home? We are just working class people with no 'background' at all, but have worked hard - and may I ask, why should we not profit from our house, WHICH IS THE ONLY ASSET WE HAVE since our pensions are s**** and our investments are s**** thanks to this government!

Greed, pure greed.........

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HOLA446
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HOLA447
Are we talking about the potential houses being built on the govt. land right next to claygate lane ? forced lots and lots of folk to bang some very nice houses onto the market all at the same time.

Ah yes, I forgot about that, just move the "travellers" down half a mile, eh? :)

PM is Private Messenger I think. I think you have to go and request to upgrade your account and then can get PM. But I see you have already upgraded, so you should have it...

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HOLA448

Don't feed the trolls!

The bottom line for me is that whatever you buy or sell a house for, that money has to come from somewhere.

Everyone has to live somewhere, and nowhere is free unless you inherit it from someone. House prices are quite simply, madness, and have been for many many years. As far as I am concerned, if someone pays £270,000 for a 2 bed flat - taking interest into account - that's about half a million pounds over the duration of the mortgage. High house prices are creating an involuntary penury amongst the population of this country : every penny spent on a mortgage is a penny stolen from the quality of life we have to live, and a penny we cannot spend on food or entertainment or anything else we want other than someone we "live". I'd be quite happy if houses cost £1,000. My neighbour bought his house in 1963 for less than 1% of the current market value of the property, and there's no way anyone can realistically claim that our slaries have risen 10,000% in the past forty years. The other knock on effect of this is that high property prices force higher salaries, and higher salaries increase the risk of our jobs being oursourced to cheaper countries where houses don't cost Stupid Money.

The motivation is dead simple : Property costs too much money, and anything that makes property cost less is not necessarily a bad thing.

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HOLA449
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HOLA4410
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HOLA4411
Actually a lot of the people using this site already own property and have plenty of equity in it.

From my own perspective I would like to see property return to an affordable level so that my children and nephews and neices can one day afford to own their own home.

The rises seen over the last ten years are clearly neither equitable or sustainable ( see the graphs on this site ) for future generations. I for one, am happy to lose some of my theoretical worth on paper so that people younger than myself can enjoy owning their own home - something that people of my, and your, age took for granted.

You should be ashamed of yourself for being so selfish.

That saved me some typing.

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HOLA4412
Handle,

So what, around here, do I get for my 'hard work' ? A property for £170,000 and this is what it gets you http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-194...=1&tr_t=buy now I could be wrong here but I think my salary would put me in the top 10% of earners in this country and my reward for that is a 2 bed flat.

You should see what you get in east London (hardly glamorous) these days for £170,000 (a one bed flat in a crime ridden council block) - if you didn't laugh you would cry.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-985...=1&tr_t=buy

Priced for a quick sale as well!

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HOLA4413

I normally just lurk, have actually registered because I was so incensed, even if this is a troll! Me and my OH both work damn hard - long hours in demanding jobs - we do earn a very good wage, in fact our combined salary is in the area of £85,000 p.a. which is well above the average even for London and also puts us in the top 5% or so of earners. Yet we are living in a rented 2-bed flat with no garden, an hour from our workplaces. Why? Because although we have good wages and savings, we still can't afford to buy a decent place (and I'm only talking about a 2-bed terrace here, nothing fancy) without lying-to-buy, getting a 100%-plus mortgage etc etc.

It's not just 20-year-olds on minimum wage who are priced out. It's people like me who are in our 30s and earning what most people would consider to be good money, who are penalised because we were born a bit too late and because we refuse to go down the route of lying or selling ourselves body and soul to the bank just so we can say we own a crappy 1-bed box in a crappy area. I am happy to rent until prices come down, and not being bitter or anything but I will be laughing my socks off when people like you come crying back here because you 'lost' all that money (which is just a number anyway, doesn't actually exist until you realise it by selling). I've worked hard all my life and surely I deserve a decent return on that? Pooh to you Handel. And I don't think much of the Water Music either.

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HOLA4414
I normally just lurk, have actually registered because I was so incensed, even if this is a troll! Me and my OH both work damn hard - long hours in demanding jobs - we do earn a very good wage, in fact our combined salary is in the area of £85,000 p.a. which is well above the average even for London and also puts us in the top 5% or so of earners. Yet we are living in a rented 2-bed flat with no garden, an hour from our workplaces. Why? Because although we have good wages and savings, we still can't afford to buy a decent place (and I'm only talking about a 2-bed terrace here, nothing fancy) without lying-to-buy, getting a 100%-plus mortgage etc etc.

It's not just 20-year-olds on minimum wage who are priced out. It's people like me who are in our 30s and earning what most people would consider to be good money, who are penalised because we were born a bit too late and because we refuse to go down the route of lying or selling ourselves body and soul to the bank just so we can say we own a crappy 1-bed box in a crappy area. I am happy to rent until prices come down, and not being bitter or anything but I will be laughing my socks off when people like you come crying back here because you 'lost' all that money (which is just a number anyway, doesn't actually exist until you realise it by selling). I've worked hard all my life and surely I deserve a decent return on that? Pooh to you Handel. And I don't think much of the Water Music either.

Hi Crabb, great post. Welcome to HPC. I think you might well have found your spirtual home :-)

You've hit the nail on the head with your post. If a couple who earn £85K between them cant afford a nice place to live then something is well out of kilter. I'm a high earner myself and until recently it was quite depressing looking at how much a nice home would cost me. I dont want to have 25 years of a crippling debt just to get a roof over my head.

:-)

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HOLA4415

HPC accuses new posters of being trolls far too readily, but the OP is broadly amusing in his satire of vendor in "anger" phase (denial, anger, then price falls).

Why do you so much resent people like us, who have made some money on our home? We are just working class people with no 'background' at all, but have worked hard - and may I ask, why should we not profit from our house, WHICH IS THE ONLY ASSET WE HAVE since our pensions are s**** and our investments are s**** thanks to this government!

He is presents as a socialist characterisation of a top-hatted capitalist priding himself in making profit from an asset without input of labour, yet remains "working class".

"NOT BECAUSE PRICES HAVE REALLY, GENUINELY FALLEN THAT MUCH" - just goading people with a GCSE in economics. Deliberate inconsistency in one hand blaming HPC for causing a drop in his house price but denying that prices have fallen that much - just a play on the "my house is definitely worth X" characterisation of joe public.

Good post, Handel. If I am wrong and it was a genuine post, please say.

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HOLA4416

What is our motivation ?

Well, I can't speak for others on here ,but mine is simple . It is to try to get houses cheaper , so that hard working people ,I repeat HARD WORKING PEOPLE , can afford to own their own homes again .

Of course people can always rent (at inflated rents) , but that gives no security of tenure and tennants can be thrown out of their homes with short notice , since the law is fully on the side of the landlord .

One more point , I am ,myself a HOUSE OWNER . I am divorced and waiting for a settlement . High house prices would give me a higher settlement , but I am intelligent enough to realise that I would have to pay more for a house as well !!

If this website is responsible for bringing about the current house price falls (crash ??) then I raise a glass to it , and wish it ,and it's founders every success !!!!!

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HOLA4417
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HOLA4418

I have read all the posts on this thread and having poured another glass of wine came to the following conclusion which is an amalgam of other peoples thoughts picked up over the last few years:-

Your home should be a place of stability, certainty which provides a sanctuary in times of trouble. If it is over geared on some ridiculous multiple of earning it fails to deliver that because you will live in a state of anxiety.

If you see your home as an investment then you will have to sell when you perceive the market is going to fall, rent till you think its reached its bottom and then buy. But the problem with all this is that you do not feel settled you could be on the move at any time. All improvements are considered on a cost benefit analysis.

I do not see my home as an investment and I ignore its value and the equity I have in it. It is my home and I intend to see out my life in it. I am happy to spend money on it if it saves me future expense I do not consider the effect of such expenditure on its market value.

Unfortunately many of those members of this forum who have STR will I suspect be caught up in the dilemma in the future, a time will come to buy and their prudence will of course enable them to buy a better quality house than at present, but as price rise (which is envitable due to gearing) they will then be faced with the dilemma that they may need to bail out when prices reach their peak and so on. So they will never feel truly settled because they do not have a home, they have an investment.

The root of the problem I believe is gearing, it causes gains to be magnified, flatters the greedy in the short term. But when the bubble bursts its downside is extremely savage indeed and not only can you lose all the money you put in but you could be forced to make up any negative equity. This causes prices to undershoot which when the recovery comes causes a longer than normal period of growth which causes lenders to become so optimistic and abandon traditional lending rules (as witnessed over the last few years) . The buy to let and the opening up of buying property abroad have all contributed to this mess which this time round will be made worse because of it.

If property is such a good investment what companies in the FTSE100 or 250 invest in residential property????

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HOLA4419

I've been bringing my daughter up on my own for 13 years and have worked full time since she was 2 months old. We have always lived in the same rented property. Recently my landlord smugly remarked that i should have bought a property years ago seeing as i've paid so much out in rent. Well if i could have afforded it i would have loved to have owned a place for us but with out enough money for a deposit and a job little above minimum wage it wasn't ever going to be an option. My point being that you can work as hard as you like but if your in a low paid job and bringing up dependants whether in a couple or alone your main priority is living day by day. I don't mind my situation but i feel its sad that my daughter will miss out as the amount of financial support i can offer her for her future is very limited.

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HOLA4420

Exactly, the majority of this planet work their nuts off for very little reward, instead it is captured by the wealth takers, that is the landlords of this planet, parasites each and every one. Wages are falling and the number of well paid secure jobs decreases by the day. The amount of money you have neither defines your worth, nor necessarily reflect hard work. The little people (that will be us then) do the work, and the leeches, get the reward (see any copy of the FT for details). The laughable thing is most landlords think they are financial geniuses, they are about to discover the truth about leveraging, when it all starts to de-leverage.

Still, the people will still have to work hard for little reward, will that ever change?

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HOLA4421

My motivation?

In general:

Houses should be affordable; speculation in houses, second homes or BTL, should be punitively taxed.

Personally:

I am an investor, I buy low and sell high. I want to buy a house and will have to wait a good five years before they hit the point where I would regard them as a good investment. This I find annoying and the fault of halfwits who think they are financial wizards. I will enjoy their pain.

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HOLA4422
My motivation?

In general:

Houses should be affordable; speculation in houses, second homes or BTL, should be punitively taxed.

Presumably the objective of punitive taxation is to wipe out that activity? So the private rental sector dries up, and the people for whom short-term renting is the only sensible option go where? Council accommodation?

So people such as foreign students coming to the UK for 6 months to lean English should be entitled to social housing. Not on my taxes, thanks!

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HOLA4423

Frank Hovis , you sum it up perfectly !!!!!!!!!!!!!

and cartimandus , what is wrong with "councill housing" . It provided affordable ,decent homes for lots of working people .

now , people like me (divorced,and waiting for a settlement ) have to be at the mercy of private landlords . If it was down to me , all private rented dwellings would be taken over by the local authourity and rented out at affordable levels .

People in private rented accomodation have no security of tennure ,and can be kicked out at short notice .

Welcome to Thatchers legacy !!!!

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HOLA4424
and cartimandus , what is wrong with "councill housing" . It provided affordable ,decent homes for lots of working people .

now , people like me (divorced,and waiting for a settlement ) have to be at the mercy of private landlords . If it was down to me , all private rented dwellings would be taken over by the local authourity and rented out at affordable levels .

People in private rented accomodation have no security of tennure ,and can be kicked out at short notice .

Welcome to Thatchers legacy !!!!

I have absolutely no problem with council housing - for people, especially families and the elderly who require long-term secure tenancy accommodation, possibly subsidised. In fact, I think the refusal of successive Governments (NOT just Thatcher) to allow councils to re-invest in new housing to be a scandal.

However, I do not believe that this is the only solution. To give the State -and this means Gordon Brown and the rest of his merry crew -SOLE POWER over housing strikes me as madness. You don't like the house/ neighbourhood that your LA has allocated? tough - they are the sole suppliers; you take what you get. You can't move out without their consent because there's no private sector provision for you to go to. Is this REALLY what you want?

There is room for the private sector for certain categories - students & foreign visitors who are staying too long for hotels to be appropriate (or would you have those taken over too?) & people on short (3-6 months, say) contracts are obvious examples. If they were to be housed as of right - nay, compulsion - by the LA can you imagine the increase in bureaucracy, to say nothing of increased public sector employees & pensions that have to be paid for out of general taxation or Council Tax.

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HOLA4425

I come from Council Housing stock so I can tell you a few problems exist. My Uncle (and his wife) have just had their council house renovated, new kitchen, bathroom, and central heating. This cost them nothing, but they still complained to my parents about the inconvenience of it all. In addition they get "compensation" from the council for the trouble they had to endure whilst their place was fixed up. Yeh, they had to go out of the house for a few hours every day, what a hardship.

The problem is that they expect everything and they expect other people to pay, that is the fundamental problem of council housing. Affordable housing does not mean council housing, if people had to contribute to their own property then they would have a healthier attitude towards it.

The property market sure is a mess......

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