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What, Exactly, Is Your Motivation?

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I have just joined and really want to know - what exactly is the motivation of you people? You seem to take a positive, gleeful joy in the prospect that there might be a house price crash - and, in fact, by your frothings and ravings, you actually encourage this and push it forward!

Are you all people who are hoping to cash in on the hard work and persistence of others - because that's how it seems to me! Are you gleefully sitting back & waiting for huge price falls - which you have, in part, caused - so as to profit from the years of effort put in by others?

My own position is clear: I began with nothing - truly, nothing - no parent or anyone to help me - and when I married, no one gave us any money for a house: but I bought my first home for £11,200 , 30 years ago, and from there on, by dint of sheer HARD WORK (do you people know what that is?) and by putting a huge amount of love, persistence and effort into our successive homes, we managed to buy our present home for £177,500, thirteen years ago.

A few months ago we decided to sell and emigrate, owing to being fed up with the get-something-for-nothing mentality of this country - and we sold our house for £650,000. We had to let those buyers go because of unrelated job problems, so then put the house back on the market. After 6 weeks we have sold again - but at only £575,000, way less than it is worth. And why? NOT BECAUSE PRICES HAVE REALLY, GENUINELY FALLEN THAT MUCH - factually, in our area of North London, the drop has been 0.4% - BUT BECAUSE OF THE PERCEPTIONS CAUSED BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU LOT!

Why do you so much resent people like us, who have made some money on our home? We are just working class people with no 'background' at all, but have worked hard - and may I ask, why should we not profit from our house, WHICH IS THE ONLY ASSET WE HAVE since our pensions are s**** and our investments are s**** thanks to this government!

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I have just joined and really want to know - what exactly is the motivation of you people? You seem to take a positive, gleeful joy in the prospect that there might be a house price crash - and, in fact, by your frothings and ravings, you actually encourage this and push it forward!

Are you all people who are hoping to cash in on the hard work and persistence of others - because that's how it seems to me! Are you gleefully sitting back & waiting for huge price falls - which you have, in part, caused - so as to profit from the years of effort put in by others?

My own position is clear: I began with nothing - truly, nothing - no parent or anyone to help me - and when I married, no one gave us any money for a house: but I bought my first home for £11,200 , 30 years ago, and from there on, by dint of sheer HARD WORK (do you people know what that is?) and by putting a huge amount of love, persistence and effort into our successive homes, we managed to buy our present home for £177,500, thirteen years ago.

A few months ago we decided to sell and emigrate, owing to being fed up with the get-something-for-nothing mentality of this country - and we sold our house for £650,000. We had to let those buyers go because of unrelated job problems, so then put the house back on the market. After 6 weeks we have sold again - but at only £575,000, way less than it is worth. And why? NOT BECAUSE PRICES HAVE REALLY, GENUINELY FALLEN THAT MUCH - factually, in our area of North London, the drop has been 0.4% - BUT BECAUSE OF THE PERCEPTIONS CAUSED BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU LOT!

Why do you so much resent people like us, who have made some money on our home? We are just working class people with no 'background' at all, but have worked hard - and may I ask, why should we not profit from our house, WHICH IS THE ONLY ASSET WE HAVE since our pensions are s**** and our investments are s**** thanks to this government!

Oh dear - I think you're going to get some interesting replies. All I can suggest is you take some time to read the site - go back over the forum postings over the last few months - and you might learn a bit about what motivates us, and why high house prices don't benefit anyone.

The supreme irony of your post, if you are genuine, is that you decided to emigrate because you were fed up with the 'something for nothing mentality', yet you expect to make over £36,000 a year from doing nothing but living in a house!

PS, like your music. :P

Edited by Austin Allegro

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There are millions of people in this country who work hard and will never, never, even if they work for two lifetimes be able to afford a house worth £575000 (even if it is worth £650000).

Ron

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I have just joined and really want to know - what exactly is the motivation of you people? You seem to take a positive, gleeful joy in the prospect that there might be a house price crash - and, in fact, by your frothings and ravings, you actually encourage this and push it forward!

Are you all people who are hoping to cash in on the hard work and persistence of others - because that's how it seems to me! Are you gleefully sitting back & waiting for huge price falls - which you have, in part, caused - so as to profit from the years of effort put in by others?

My own position is clear: I began with nothing - truly, nothing - no parent or anyone to help me - and when I married, no one gave us any money for a house: but I bought my first home for £11,200 , 30 years ago, and from there on, by dint of sheer HARD WORK (do you people know what that is?) and by putting a huge amount of love, persistence and effort into our successive homes, we managed to buy our present home for £177,500, thirteen years ago.

A few months ago we decided to sell and emigrate, owing to being fed up with the get-something-for-nothing mentality of this country - and we sold our house for £650,000. We had to let those buyers go because of unrelated job problems, so then put the house back on the market. After 6 weeks we have sold again - but at only £575,000, way less than it is worth. And why? NOT BECAUSE PRICES HAVE REALLY, GENUINELY FALLEN THAT MUCH - factually, in our area of North London, the drop has been 0.4% - BUT BECAUSE OF THE PERCEPTIONS CAUSED BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU LOT!

Why do you so much resent people like us, who have made some money on our home? We are just working class people with no 'background' at all, but have worked hard - and may I ask, why should we not profit from our house, WHICH IS THE ONLY ASSET WE HAVE since our pensions are s**** and our investments are s**** thanks to this government!

You really don't understand do you?

It is not us on here that caused this mess but people like you, the banks and government. We know where it will end just not when.

Oh, by the way, your house is worth only what someone is willing to pay for it.

Working hard is not a right to doing well, many work hard and earn a pittance (look at the sweat shops around the world). It takes knowledge and application of it to really do well (and a bit of luck).

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I have just joined and really want to know - what exactly is the motivation of you people? You seem to take a positive, gleeful joy in the prospect that there might be a house price crash - and, in fact, by your frothings and ravings, you actually encourage this and push it forward!

Are you all people who are hoping to cash in on the hard work and persistence of others - because that's how it seems to me! Are you gleefully sitting back & waiting for huge price falls - which you have, in part, caused - so as to profit from the years of effort put in by others?

My own position is clear: I began with nothing - truly, nothing - no parent or anyone to help me - and when I married, no one gave us any money for a house: but I bought my first home for £11,200 , 30 years ago, and from there on, by dint of sheer HARD WORK (do you people know what that is?) and by putting a huge amount of love, persistence and effort into our successive homes, we managed to buy our present home for £177,500, thirteen years ago.

A few months ago we decided to sell and emigrate, owing to being fed up with the get-something-for-nothing mentality of this country - and we sold our house for £650,000. We had to let those buyers go because of unrelated job problems, so then put the house back on the market. After 6 weeks we have sold again - but at only £575,000, way less than it is worth. And why? NOT BECAUSE PRICES HAVE REALLY, GENUINELY FALLEN THAT MUCH - factually, in our area of North London, the drop has been 0.4% - BUT BECAUSE OF THE PERCEPTIONS CAUSED BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU LOT!

Why do you so much resent people like us, who have made some money on our home? We are just working class people with no 'background' at all, but have worked hard - and may I ask, why should we not profit from our house, WHICH IS THE ONLY ASSET WE HAVE since our pensions are s**** and our investments are s**** thanks to this government!

George Frideric.... welcome to HPC.

I think there are people who delight in seeing HPs crash, and why not? They have been priced out of the market by ridiculous speculation where HPIs have risen well above wage inflation, and have had to and been encouraged to borrow many times their salaries. Even having to take out 'Liars loans' if they could. Did anyone care about them?

I bought my first house at tender age of 19 for £20K, it's probably 'worth' £200K in todays money I guess. What a ridiculous sum for a FTB?

Maybe you are a troll? Don't know. Your email has certain troll like attributes but also seems genuine. Does it matter you ask? No, not really.

An asset is WORTH what you can sell it for. Not what someone tells you it's worth, this is the market in action. It is after all a house market and prices are driven by the market. I bought my parents council house for £34K and sold it near the top for £208K, yes I was lucky and it's all about timing. But get the timing wrong, like a lot of recent BTLs/FTBs and you will pay for it.

How come there was such a big difference in the two 'sale' prices? What timescale were the two offers, as that is what they are until completion. Offers to pay money, not cast iron guarantees.

Frank

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I have just joined and really want to know - what exactly is the motivation of you people? You seem to take a positive, gleeful joy in the prospect that there might be a house price crash - and, in fact, by your frothings and ravings, you actually encourage this and push it forward!

Are you all people who are hoping to cash in on the hard work and persistence of others - because that's how it seems to me! Are you gleefully sitting back & waiting for huge price falls - which you have, in part, caused - so as to profit from the years of effort put in by others?

My own position is clear: I began with nothing - truly, nothing - no parent or anyone to help me - and when I married, no one gave us any money for a house: but I bought my first home for £11,200 , 30 years ago, and from there on, by dint of sheer HARD WORK (do you people know what that is?) and by putting a huge amount of love, persistence and effort into our successive homes, we managed to buy our present home for £177,500, thirteen years ago.

A few months ago we decided to sell and emigrate, owing to being fed up with the get-something-for-nothing mentality of this country - and we sold our house for £650,000. We had to let those buyers go because of unrelated job problems, so then put the house back on the market. After 6 weeks we have sold again - but at only £575,000, way less than it is worth. And why? NOT BECAUSE PRICES HAVE REALLY, GENUINELY FALLEN THAT MUCH - factually, in our area of North London, the drop has been 0.4% - BUT BECAUSE OF THE PERCEPTIONS CAUSED BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU LOT!

Why do you so much resent people like us, who have made some money on our home? We are just working class people with no 'background' at all, but have worked hard - and may I ask, why should we not profit from our house, WHICH IS THE ONLY ASSET WE HAVE since our pensions are s**** and our investments are s**** thanks to this government!

You've turned £177,500 into £575K in 13 years and you're having a go at the people on this site and you're jumping ship on the country that's helped you do that.

Spare a thought for the thousands of young people who cant afford a place to live, of the young couples and their families who are so over-stretched that they cant afford to live. Think of all the people who have been mis-sold investment and credit and dreams. Think of the people who will be stung by house prices dropping. Your a lucky lucky person. Personally, I think you sound a bit thick and should be happy with what you've got out of the housing boom. You're taking money out the pocket of everyone below you on the housing pyramid yet have the audacity to complain about and blame the people of this website who think the current situation is unfair and unsustainable.

Grow up you tw*t.

Edited by TheCountOfNowhere

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I have just joined and really want to know - what exactly is the motivation of you people? You seem to take a positive, gleeful joy in the prospect that there might be a house price crash - and, in fact, by your frothings and ravings, you actually encourage this and push it forward!

Are you all people who are hoping to cash in on the hard work and persistence of others - because that's how it seems to me! Are you gleefully sitting back & waiting for huge price falls - which you have, in part, caused - so as to profit from the years of effort put in by others?

My own position is clear: I began with nothing - truly, nothing - no parent or anyone to help me - and when I married, no one gave us any money for a house: but I bought my first home for £11,200 , 30 years ago, and from there on, by dint of sheer HARD WORK (do you people know what that is?) and by putting a huge amount of love, persistence and effort into our successive homes, we managed to buy our present home for £177,500, thirteen years ago.

A few months ago we decided to sell and emigrate, owing to being fed up with the get-something-for-nothing mentality of this country - and we sold our house for £650,000. We had to let those buyers go because of unrelated job problems, so then put the house back on the market. After 6 weeks we have sold again - but at only £575,000, way less than it is worth. And why? NOT BECAUSE PRICES HAVE REALLY, GENUINELY FALLEN THAT MUCH - factually, in our area of North London, the drop has been 0.4% - BUT BECAUSE OF THE PERCEPTIONS CAUSED BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU LOT!

Why do you so much resent people like us, who have made some money on our home? We are just working class people with no 'background' at all, but have worked hard - and may I ask, why should we not profit from our house, WHICH IS THE ONLY ASSET WE HAVE since our pensions are s**** and our investments are s**** thanks to this government!

Tw*t.

Yes, I know ive already said that. I'm not happy about the "...CAUSED BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU LOT". He doesnt know me. I'd personally have taken his asset off him and given it to Prince Harry for being a jolly all round good sport and going off to defend Granny's empire.

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owing to being fed up with the get-something-for-nothing mentality of this country - and we sold our [£177,500] house for £650,000

begging for it!

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Guest An Bearin Bui
Why do you so much resent people like us, who have made some money on our home? We are just working class people with no 'background' at all, but have worked hard - and may I ask, why should we not profit from our house, WHICH IS THE ONLY ASSET WE HAVE since our pensions are s**** and our investments are s**** thanks to this government!

Why is it the only asset you have? If you've been working hard as you claim for so many years, you should have savings, stock market investments, ISAs, adequate pension provision etc. Maybe you were just lazy and assumed that you'd somehow just make 1/2 million on your home because that's how it is nowadays, innit? To me, given the standards of young people who are now getting into debt on a record scale to afford the basic things that people of your age-group took for granted, you are unbelievably privileged. You're not working-class. You are an over-privileged spoilt baby boomer who expects to get £500k (do you realise how much money that is?) tax-free just for being the age to have bought at a time when houses were affordable i.e. 3 x times one average person's income.

Everyone works hard. It's just your generation has had its expectations raised due to the economic blip that was the UK economy from 1980-2008. Now that easy money is finished and younger British people will be a lot worse off in future because of the greed of your money-grabbing generation who has sold off the assets of the country to foreigners, stipped it of natural resources, ruined its industrial base and all for the kind of get-rich-quick scheme you think you have a right to.

Good riddance to you if you're leaving - it's one less scrounger to pay for on the NHS and state pension. ;)

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Just a few points i'd like to add. You seem to resent the money culture of the uk but want the maximum for you own property. How do you square the first with the second? Also we don't resent those who genuinely bought their property for living purposes and have sold it or are selling. What we resent is the prices of housing which is not the same as resenting the buyers/sellers. And if you truly understood the extremely negative consequences that the extreme HPI we have had has had how can you not? This varies from pricing out ftbs, to making the land manufacturing businesses are on worth more than the businesses themselves (leading to closings), to increased immigration of UK PLC's skilled young individuals who see no prospect of house ownership, to driving up costs of UK PLC and resultant drop's in its competitiveness.

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I take your word for it you have worked hard and deserved to build some equity in your house but the top £200k of your house price was gained through good fortune that you were able to be in the housing gain when prices rocketed.

If I'm being honest I feel a little guilt about wanting house prices to go down, slightly selfish. However, I also realise that the longer this goes on the less people who benefit and the more severe the inevitable bust becomes... so it's getting to the point of good intentions on our part - it really is.

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Guest Bart of Darkness
I have just joined and really want to know - what exactly is the motivation of you people?

Pure evil.

TimeBandits22.jpeg

You seem to take a positive, gleeful joy in the prospect that there might be a house price crash - and, in fact, by your frothings and ravings, you actually encourage this and push it forward!

Ah, we've switched from being irrelevant nutters to scapegoats. Well that's progress I guess.

Are you all people who are hoping to cash in on the hard work and persistence of others

Hard work? HPI seems more like money for nothing (minus the cost of a couple of tins of magnolia paint).

My own position is clear: I began with nothing - truly, nothing - no parent or anyone to help me - and when I married, no one gave us any money for a house: but I bought my first home for £11,200 , 30 years ago, and from there on, by dint of sheer HARD WORK

worlds-smallest-violin.jpg

BUT BECAUSE OF THE PERCEPTIONS CAUSED BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU LOT!

:lol::lol::lol: You're welcome.

We are just working class people

Given that your house is worth 2 thirds of a million I am detecting a whiff of dog blanket about you.

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So, adjusted for inflation, you paid £48,000 for your first home.

What would it cost a First Time Buyer today?

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable
A few months ago we decided to sell and emigrate, owing to being fed up with the get-something-for-nothing mentality of this country - and we sold our house for £650,000. We had to let those buyers go because of unrelated job problems, so then put the house back on the market. After 6 weeks we have sold again - but at only £575,000, way less than it is worth. And why? NOT BECAUSE PRICES HAVE REALLY, GENUINELY FALLEN THAT MUCH - factually, in our area of North London, the drop has been 0.4% - BUT BECAUSE OF THE PERCEPTIONS CAUSED BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU LOT!

Why do you so much resent people like us, who have made some money on our home? We are just working class people with no 'background' at all, but have worked hard - and may I ask, why should we not profit from our house, WHICH IS THE ONLY ASSET WE HAVE since our pensions are s**** and our investments are s**** thanks to this government!

Half a million quid should see you in Werther's Originals and copies of the Daily Mail for a while.

And Radio 4 is free and should see you through until you have a stroke.

Edited by DissipatedYouthIsValuable

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I have just joined and really want to know - what exactly is the motivation of you people? You seem to take a positive, gleeful joy in the prospect that there might be a house price crash - and, in fact, by your frothings and ravings, you actually encourage this and push it forward!

Are you all people who are hoping to cash in on the hard work and persistence of others - because that's how it seems to me! Are you gleefully sitting back & waiting for huge price falls - which you have, in part, caused - so as to profit from the years of effort put in by others?

My own position is clear: I began with nothing - truly, nothing - no parent or anyone to help me - and when I married, no one gave us any money for a house: but I bought my first home for £11,200 , 30 years ago, and from there on, by dint of sheer HARD WORK (do you people know what that is?) and by putting a huge amount of love, persistence and effort into our successive homes, we managed to buy our present home for £177,500, thirteen years ago.

A few months ago we decided to sell and emigrate, owing to being fed up with the get-something-for-nothing mentality of this country - and we sold our house for £650,000. We had to let those buyers go because of unrelated job problems, so then put the house back on the market. After 6 weeks we have sold again - but at only £575,000, way less than it is worth. And why? NOT BECAUSE PRICES HAVE REALLY, GENUINELY FALLEN THAT MUCH - factually, in our area of North London, the drop has been 0.4% - BUT BECAUSE OF THE PERCEPTIONS CAUSED BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU LOT!

Why do you so much resent people like us, who have made some money on our home? We are just working class people with no 'background' at all, but have worked hard - and may I ask, why should we not profit from our house, WHICH IS THE ONLY ASSET WE HAVE since our pensions are s**** and our investments are s**** thanks to this government!

Congratulations! This is by far the most uneducated post on this forum to date.

It's a pity you didn't spend some of the past 30 years educating yourself on the functions of the banking and monetary system. It is this system alone that has allowed you to accumulate your wealth at the expense of successive generations over the same period.

Go away, read a book on the subject, re read your post, cringe with embarrassment and then count your lucky stars.

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Guest DissipatedYouthIsValuable

I have a chair I purchased in 1903 with 4d.

By sitting my **** upon it for 87 years, it is now worth £482.

I feel aggrieved.

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So, adjusted for inflation, you paid £48,000 for your first home.

What would it cost a First Time Buyer today?

Well said!

I'm an true FTB. I wanted to buy a few years ago but didn't feel secure in my employment, so held off and then when I was in a better position............Could only afford a lean to in the Gaza strip.

2002 - Mate sells his 1 bed, No CH, back to back in South Leeds for £43K, now on rightmove they are £80K, thats simply stoopid. How is this sustainable?

And when it all goes wrong as it allways would......Guess that its down to "you people". ie - US!

Whilst I'm here I would admit to driving a white FIAT in a Parisian underpass a few years ago, I'd just watched "Ronin" and thought I'd have ago myself, I swear I only nudged their bumper, honest!.

Bart of Darkness - Great Post! - Thats quality.

I wonder if Mr Handel, will post again. I did so enjoy the Daily Mail Editorial.

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so as to profit from the years of effort put in by others?

What effort? A lick of paint and a new kitchen?

t@sser

Edited by jez123

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I think that old git's post is quite heartening. I'm sure I remember somebody on here saying that when the HPI tide turns we will become the target for abuse and blame. Sign of the times, I think, and just the first in what will be a long line of posts from disgruntled sellers who had to settle for 'less than their house is worth'. Heartening also that such an unpleasant gentleman who (presumably) will soon need treatment for his high blood pressure is leaving the country.

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I have just joined and really want to know - what exactly is the motivation of you people? You seem to take a positive, gleeful joy in the prospect that there might be a house price crash - and, in fact, by your frothings and ravings, you actually encourage this and push it forward!

Are you all people who are hoping to cash in on the hard work and persistence of others - because that's how it seems to me! Are you gleefully sitting back & waiting for huge price falls - which you have, in part, caused - so as to profit from the years of effort put in by others?

My own position is clear: I began with nothing - truly, nothing - no parent or anyone to help me - and when I married, no one gave us any money for a house: but I bought my first home for £11,200 , 30 years ago, and from there on, by dint of sheer HARD WORK (do you people know what that is?) and by putting a huge amount of love, persistence and effort into our successive homes, we managed to buy our present home for £177,500, thirteen years ago.

A few months ago we decided to sell and emigrate, owing to being fed up with the get-something-for-nothing mentality of this country - and we sold our house for £650,000. We had to let those buyers go because of unrelated job problems, so then put the house back on the market. After 6 weeks we have sold again - but at only £575,000, way less than it is worth. And why? NOT BECAUSE PRICES HAVE REALLY, GENUINELY FALLEN THAT MUCH - factually, in our area of North London, the drop has been 0.4% - BUT BECAUSE OF THE PERCEPTIONS CAUSED BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU LOT!

Why do you so much resent people like us, who have made some money on our home? We are just working class people with no 'background' at all, but have worked hard - and may I ask, why should we not profit from our house, WHICH IS THE ONLY ASSET WE HAVE since our pensions are s**** and our investments are s**** thanks to this government!

Handle,

Sorry for some of the insults thrown your way but what else did you expect? Many people on this site are just fed up of being lied to, can see through these lies and can see the damage it is doing in the long run. You talk of a get something for nothing mentality but have you ever sat back and asked why the average young person today can not be arsed? Because they have nothing to aspire to other than getting a shitty job paying piss poor wages simply to rent a house to pay for your generations retirement. I can see the apathy, the WTF attitude. Its too easy to look at the yoof of today and spout shite like 'it wasn't like this in my day' this isn't your day, it's theirs and what have they got to look forward to? You my friend will soon be in a box, and probably me not long after. Unfortunately they are the future.

I earn £45000 a year and have £15000 in savings, I have been in a position to buy a home for four or five years now. I have to work a 12 hour rotating shift pattern working nights, days and weekends supervising a team of operators on a pharmaceutical plant. I would not like to think of myself as a financial fool so would not consider a mortgage of more than 3.5x as in the long run it will cripple you. So what, around here, do I get for my 'hard work' ? A property for £170,000 and this is what it gets you http://www.rightmove.co.uk/viewdetails-194...=1&tr_t=buy now I could be wrong here but I think my salary would put me in the top 10% of earners in this country and my reward for that is a 2 bed flat.

Nobody here, I believe, wants to see a HPC purely to watch people suffer. I believe many, like myself, simply want a home that reflects our efforts in life, is it too much to ask for a garage and a garden?

At least have the decency to come back and defend you point of view or are you just another one of those shit and run merchants.

Damo

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I think that old git's post is quite heartening. I'm sure I remember somebody on here saying that when the HPI tide turns we will become the target for abuse and blame. Sign of the times, I think, and just the first in what will be a long line of posts from disgruntled sellers who had to settle for 'less than their house is worth'. Heartening also that such an unpleasant gentleman who (presumably) will soon need treatment for his high blood pressure is leaving the country.

"First they ignore you - Then laugh at you and hate you - Then they fight you - then you win” ;)

Damo

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'handel' date='Mar 4 2008, 04:56 PM'

My own position is clear: I began with nothing - truly, nothing - no parent or anyone to help me - and when I married, no one gave us any money for a house: but I bought my first home for £11,200 , 30 years ago, and from there on, by dint of sheer HARD WORK (do you people know what that is?) and by putting a huge amount of love, persistence and effort into our successive homes, we managed to buy our present home for £177,500, thirteen years ago.

Ohh what a coincidence... you bought both propertys just after previous crashes :lol:

In 1978 & 1995

I think Ill wait for the crashes just like you did ;)

homepage.png

Edited by Crashman Begins

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Guest Bart of Darkness

Ohh what a coincidence... you bought both propertys just after previous crashes :lol:

In 1978 & 1995

I think Ill wait for the crashes just like you did ;)

homepage.png

I think I'll do the same.

and from there on, by dint of sheer HARD WORK

Nothing to do with a worldwide credit/property bubble then? So your house has only increased in value due to improvements made to it, it's completely missed all the speculative HPI of the last 10 years? Must be a right sh1thole then.

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  • 293 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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