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As loathe as I am to quote the Daily Mail...

A fifth of your council tax is paying for 'gold-plated' pensions at the town hall

By BECKY BARROW

Last updated at 10:03am on 29th February 2008

Almost £1 in every £5 handed over by council taxpayers is used to support the pensions of town hall workers, a report reveals today.

The country's 1.6million local government employees have 'gold-plated' final salary pensions, while many in the private sector face retiring on a pittance.

Experts criticised the devastating findings, which they said prove a "pensions aristocracy" is developing.

Council workers can retire as young as 55 – while everyone else faces working until their 68th birthday.

Tom McPhail, head of pensions research at the financial advisers Hargreaves Lansdown, said: "Most council tax payers don't enjoy the luxury of a final salary pension.

"So why should they pay through the nose for someone else to enjoy this hugely expensive perk?"

Dr Ros Altmann, a former pensions adviser to the Treasury, added: "It is a recipe for social unrest to have a 'pension aristocracy' expecting to be funded by people who are struggling to make ends meet on their own meagre pensions."

Does anyone know how much of a ticking time bomb this is? Not just in local government, but central government, quangos, etc etc.

I wonder how much of the tax Gordo placed on private pensions when he came to power is now used in subsidising these pensions.

To my great surprise, in last week's Sunday Times magazine, it showed that public sector workers now earned £50 per week more than those in the private sector. I find it a bit sickening to know that the people whose wages my taxes (and everyone else in the private sector) are paying earns more on average and has a generous pension. After all, it is the private sector that pays for everything in the end and the public sector is hardly a model of efficiency and thrift.

What type of contraction in the size of the state could stave off what seems to be a looming disaster in a decade or so?

Edited by Pacific State

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As loathe as I am to quote the Daily Mail...

A fifth of your council tax is paying for 'gold-plated' pensions at the town hall

By BECKY BARROW

Last updated at 10:03am on 29th February 2008

Does anyone know how much of a ticking time bomb this is? Not just in local government, but central government, quangos, etc etc.

I wonder how much of the tax Gordo placed on private pensions when he came to power is now used in subsidising these pensions.

To my great surprise, in last week's Sunday Times magazine, it showed that public sector workers now earned £50 per week more than those in the private sector. I find it a bit sickening to know that the people whose wages my taxes (and everyone else in the private sector) are paying earns more on average and has a generous pension. After all, it is the private sector that pays for everything in the end and the public sector is hardly a model of efficiency and thrift.

What type of contraction in the size of the state could stave off what seems to be a looming disaster in a decade or so?

Always amuses me that all those working in the private sector who have allowed their pay and conditions

to be gradually eroded away. The solution to remedy this is to attack the wages and conditions of those in the

in the public sector. Using this rational if someone comes along and cuts my hand off, when someone comes along

with two hands I must cut his hand off to even things up. Ahh the politics of envy. :lol:

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Always amuses me that all those working in the private sector who have allowed their pay and conditions

to be gradually eroded away. The solution to remedy this is to attack the wages and conditions of those in the

in the public sector. Using this rational if someone comes along and cuts my hand off, when someone comes along

with two hands I must cut his hand off to even things up. Ahh the politics of envy. :lol:

Damn right - I've no love for the public sector, but you're spot on about soft tw@ts in the private sector giving in to bullying management and ending up with shit wages and conditions.

And it's the same management who threaten redundancies and all sorts of other psychological tricks that then share out bigger slices of the cake to themselves, and piss themselves laughing at annual bonus time.

From a bosses point of view, Thatcher was a genius selling off council houses and Blair and Brown have played their part with student loans and encouraging the rampant HPI we all know and loathe.

The generation of home "owners" (actually huge mortgage owners) are so frightened of the fact that "your home is a risk if you do not keep up repayments on a mortgage, or loan secured on it" that they have gifted their bosses all the ammunition they need to shit on them all day, every day.

The daft thing is, skilled people are more in demand than ever, but thanks to the slavery of debt, most of them have no negotiating power whatsoever.

And you did it to yourself when you signed up for that huge mortgage and middle-class aspirations, instead of sticking to your council house and signing up to a decent union.

You most certainly do reap what you sew in this life...

Edited by The XYY Man

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What type of contraction in the size of the state could stave off what seems to be a looming disaster in a decade or so?

It's already happening.

The state needs to contract to a size such that the Gov't intervention in the free market is not so great that it destroys wealth faster than the private sector can create it (which has been the case in Britain since around 2003)

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I was at a village planning meeting recently where tempers got frayed and one line of attack by the villagers (who were about to have a massive increase in traffic forced upon them) was to highlight the massive pension benefits the council workers receive, I’m convinced middle England has a growing appetite for big cuts in pen pushing government/council roles.

Edited by PricedOutNative

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From a party political view, I wonder if things are changing?

The mood before 1997 seemed to be to spend money on the public services to get them up to scratch. Strangely, whenever the Tories called for a tax cut, it seemed to get a bad reaction. There seemed to be real public desire* to raise taxes to make the public services better.

I wonder if now the public are in the mood for large cuts. My gut feeling is yes, but, bless the Tories, they're now as afraid to say anything as Labour which may be deemed as remotely ideological.

(* either real of Chomsky manufactured)

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By jove I've got it!

Let's nationalise everything (bring back Claws 4 - geddit?) so we all work for the public sector!

I think this was attempted in the 1970s but those nasty unions got greedy about, er pensions but I'm sure we're all grown up now and don't get envious about other peoples wealth.

Those silly sods in private sector, suckers or what?

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I'm all for scrapping the council pension scheme, but "20% of council tax" is a bit misleading.

Since Council Tax only pays for about 25% of council spending, if something costs 20% of Council Tax, it therefore costs in total 5% of Council spending.

5% of turnover probably isn't that unusual in pension contribution terms, is it?

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The fact is most people working in the public sector don't get paid terribly well, the few at the top do granted, but the majority

doing the work don't and a good pension was something that made up for it, it is after all deferred wages, its just

that a bigger % of their salary is put towards the pension. If as they are now saying we cant afford to pay people these pensions anymore then fine, don't take the contributions out of the salary in the first place and don't make promises you can keep. Don't employ people under false pretenses.

And if the public don't want these services then again fine, cut the jobs and stop all the ******ing wingeing.

But if you haven't got decent private sector jobs for these people to go to then as a society you have a problem.

Considering that jobs and the economy is 70% reliant on consumers, and a consumer led economy is 70% reliant on the housing market which is now in a downtown you now have a ******ing big problem.

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Always amuses me that all those working in the private sector who have allowed their pay and conditions

to be gradually eroded away. The solution to remedy this is to attack the wages and conditions of those in the

in the public sector. Using this rational if someone comes along and cuts my hand off, when someone comes along

with two hands I must cut his hand off to even things up. Ahh the politics of envy. :lol:

Wild guess but do you work in the public sector.

Assuming that you do here's the choice facing those of us who don't:

These are the terms of your employment, the door is over there, choose one or the other.

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Wild guess but do you work in the public sector.

Assuming that you do here's the choice facing those of us who don't:

These are the terms of your employment, the door is over there, choose one or the other.

In days of yore, people often chose a third option - join together and withdraw their labour in a strike.

And you'd find that if it were actually possible to get people to do this today it would work better than it ever did. This is because the boss is shackled by more debt than you can imagine and has penalty clauses in all of his contracts.

If you walked en-masse he would shit his pants. You can see how desperate they are by all the numpty immigrants they are employing in their desperate attempts to stay solvent.

But because you too are hocked up to the nines, and our culture is now "fu*k you buddy" with regards to friends and colleagues, most will just sit at their crappy little desk and meekly accept it.

When the most that oppressed people will do is post on a forum, you just know we're all fu*ked...

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In days of yore, people often chose a third option - join together and withdraw their labour in a strike.

And you'd find that if it were actually possible to get people to do this today it would work better than it ever did. This is because the boss is shackled by more debt than you can imagine and has penalty clauses in all of his contracts.

If you walked en-masse he would shit his pants. You can see how desperate they are by all the numpty immigrants they are employing in their desperate attempts to stay solvent.

And then all the employers went bust and nobody had a job.

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And then all the employers went bust and nobody had a job.

Trade Unions were at their most powerful in the UK between the end of World War 2, and the late 1970s.

unemployment.jpg

Edited by jdc

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In days of yore, people often chose a third option - join together and withdraw their labour in a strike.

And you'd find that if it were actually possible to get people to do this today it would work better than it ever did. This is because the boss is shackled by more debt than you can imagine and has penalty clauses in all of his contracts.

If you walked en-masse he would shit his pants. You can see how desperate they are by all the numpty immigrants they are employing in their desperate attempts to stay solvent.

But because you too are hocked up to the nines, and our culture is now "fu*k you buddy" with regards to friends and colleagues, most will just sit at their crappy little desk and meekly accept it.

When the most that oppressed people will do is post on a forum, you just know we're all fu*ked...

The miners were able to stay off work for so long because most of them lived in council housing. Thatcher realised this and promply flogged the lot off knowing that workers are not able to strike for any extended period of time if they had to pay a mortgage.

Edited by Pluto

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Trade Unions were at their most powerful in the UK between the end of World War 2, and the late 1970s.

unemployment.jpg

That chart is quite interesting.

the peak in unemployment happened just before WW2.Wonder where they all went in the subsequent decade:ph34r: :ph34r:

Lets face it,it would certainly make quite a nice way of relieving our burgeoning benefits system of sponging chavs wouldn't it!!!

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Wild guess but do you work in the public sector.

Assuming that you do here's the choice facing those of us who don't:

These are the terms of your employment, the door is over there, choose one or the other.

Yes I work in the public sector and have a LGPS pension.

The choice for those who don't is to do something about the continual attack on your pay and conditions.

Join a union, organise, do something to defend your livelyhoods.

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Always amuses me that all those working in the private sector who have allowed their pay and conditions

to be gradually eroded away. The solution to remedy this is to attack the wages and conditions of those in the

in the public sector. Using this rational if someone comes along and cuts my hand off, when someone comes along

with two hands I must cut his hand off to even things up. Ahh the politics of envy. :lol:

No the council are already taking my hands and my *****, now I just want my ***** back thank you very much.

EDIT>P E N I S

Edited by domo

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Trade Unions were at their most powerful in the UK between the end of World War 2, and the late 1970s.

unemployment.jpg

You are putting the cart before the horse here.

Trade Unions don't cause unemployment or inflation for that matter.

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You are putting the cart before the horse here.

Trade Unions don't cause unemployment or inflation for that matter.

I didn't say they do, Young Goat did.

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Yes I work in the public sector and have a LGPS pension.

The choice for those who don't is to do something about the continual attack on your pay and conditions.

Join a union, organise, do something to defend your livelyhoods.

... and see more jobs exported. Public sector has the advantage there (though I guess a certain amount of administrative stuff could be done overseas :P)

It wouldn't surprise me if we see a lot of pension defaults in this country, a couple of decades down the line. And I wouldn't want to be part of a pensions aristocracy myself ... I'd be afraid of being culled :lol::ph34r:

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Always amuses me that all those working in the private sector who have allowed their pay and conditions

to be gradually eroded away. The solution to remedy this is to attack the wages and conditions of those in the

in the public sector. Using this rational if someone comes along and cuts my hand off, when someone comes along

with two hands I must cut his hand off to even things up. Ahh the politics of envy. :lol:

You're absolutely spot on. I worked for the NHS and earned sod all for some serious life and death responsibility. I went to the private sector and to two American companies, and during that time (2001-5) saw a gradual but fairly complete downgrading of pensions and other benefits.

When I returned to the NHS the pension and benefits in service were very attractive and just from a selfish angle, were worth any capitalists attention.

Of course as part of the failings of such large organisations, I had to leave and return to get onto a decent salary band.

Wouldn't have been able to join the flight to the suburbs and out of a crap area if I hadn't have done it either.

TFH

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As loathe as I am to quote the Daily Mail...

A fifth of your council tax is paying for 'gold-plated' pensions at the town hall

By BECKY BARROW

Last updated at 10:03am on 29th February 2008

Does anyone know how much of a ticking time bomb this is? Not just in local government, but central government, quangos, etc etc.

I wonder how much of the tax Gordo placed on private pensions when he came to power is now used in subsidising these pensions.

To my great surprise, in last week's Sunday Times magazine, it showed that public sector workers now earned £50 per week more than those in the private sector. I find it a bit sickening to know that the people whose wages my taxes (and everyone else in the private sector) are paying earns more on average and has a generous pension. After all, it is the private sector that pays for everything in the end and the public sector is hardly a model of efficiency and thrift.

What type of contraction in the size of the state could stave off what seems to be a looming disaster in a decade or so?

Baroness Margaret Thatcher, had the right idea "We are handing back the family silver by to the family by privatising".

She was right about one thing.

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  • 292 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
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      • up 5%



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