Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
huw

Guardian: How Britain Blew It

Recommended Posts

Link

"To a significant degree, the money has effectively been handed back to this and other generations since the early 1980s to spend or, in many cases, to invest in housing or other assets."
Edited by huw

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Britain could have had one of the world's biggest sovereign wealth funds had the windfall from North Sea oil been saved rather than used to cut taxes and boost spending, according to a report out today.

A study from PricewaterhouseCoopers found that the UK could have built up a nest egg of £450bn - bigger than those of Kuwait, Russia and Qatar combined - had it put tax receipts from oil and gas fields into a long-term fund.

Agreed; a wasted opportunity. However any government doing that would have been voted out quick sharp.

The Death of Democracy was always going to be by its own hand. This is simply another example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agreed; a wasted opportunity. However any government doing that would have been voted out quick sharp.

The Death of Democracy was always going to be by its own hand. This is simply another example.

I totally agree - Scotland really blew it in the 70's - if only our parents had voted and taken to the streets - we'd be the richest nation in Europe.

My only hope is independence soon so we don't blow the other half on those subsidy junkies in England.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I totally agree - Scotland really blew it in the 70's - if only our parents had voted and taken to the streets - we'd be the richest nation in Europe.

My only hope is independence soon so we don't blow the other half on those subsidy junkies in England.

I agree it could have made a real difference to an independent Scotland.

For the UK it's 3% of GDP max not enough to effect a sea change on the countries finances.

With hindsight it might have been best to leave it in the ground, and start to exploit it in five or ten years time when peak oil starts to kick in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree it could have made a real difference to an independent Scotland.

For the UK it's 3% of GDP max not enough to effect a sea change on the countries finances.

With hindsight it might have been best to leave it in the ground, and start to exploit it in five or ten years time when peak oil starts to kick in.

This article is the main reason the stagflation we are going to see will be nothing like the 70s. In the 70s we have a great manufacturing base and north sea oil revenues. What do we have now to comfort the blow?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I totally agree - Scotland really blew it in the 70's - if only our parents had voted and taken to the streets - we'd be the richest nation in Europe.

My only hope is independence soon so we don't blow the other half on those subsidy junkies in England.

Funnily enough, whilst not Scottish, I grew up just outside Edinburgh.

I remember a fair amount of anti-english feeling, but not once in 16 years did anyone (peer or parent) mention the North Sea issue to me. Even as a teenager,

it seemed strange that people would express their nationalism via references to culloden and bannockburn rather than current issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To all intents and purposes North Sea oil was exploited as a US not a UK resource. It was pumped out as fast as possible over two the last two decades of the 20th Century to undermine OPEC. The industrial chaos that brought Thatcher to power was not an accident of history. It was orchestrated by agents of a foreign power to ensure that a friendly government was in Downing Street whilst this country was looted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To all intents and purposes North Sea oil was exploited as a US not a UK resource. It was pumped out as fast as possible over two the last two decades of the 20th Century to undermine OPEC. The industrial chaos that brought Thatcher to power was not an accident of history. It was orchestrated by agents of a foreign power to ensure that a friendly government was in Downing Street whilst this country was looted.

Interesting.

Why would you say she fought so hard to leave the coal in the ground?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To all intents and purposes North Sea oil was exploited as a US not a UK resource. It was pumped out as fast as possible over two the last two decades of the 20th Century to undermine OPEC. The industrial chaos that brought Thatcher to power was not an accident of history. It was orchestrated by agents of a foreign power to ensure that a friendly government was in Downing Street whilst this country was looted.

Yeah, the best thing any sovereign country can do is keep its resources in the ground for as long as possible. At the end of the day, I would rather have the resource in the ground than pump it out, exchanging it for a sovereign wealth fund, or worse pi$$ the money away. So sad, the country has been gutted of its gold and oil.

Edited by Pluto

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
To all intents and purposes North Sea oil was exploited as a US not a UK resource. It was pumped out as fast as possible over two the last two decades of the 20th Century to undermine OPEC. The industrial chaos that brought Thatcher to power was not an accident of history. It was orchestrated by agents of a foreign power to ensure that a friendly government was in Downing Street whilst this country was looted.

The USA does seem more and more like a great big bully.

Now they are busily devaluing the dollar - the main reserve currency of all the nations of the world.

I wonder what really persuaded Blair to go to war in Iraq.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah, the best thing any sovereign country can do is keep its resources in the ground for as long as possible. At the end of the day, I would rather have the resource in the ground than pump it out, exchanging it for a sovereign wealth fund, or worse pi$$ the money away. So sad, the country has been gutted of its gold and oil.

We are doing our bit for the UK.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree it could have made a real difference to an independent Scotland.

For the UK it's 3% of GDP max not enough to effect a sea change on the countries finances.

With hindsight it might have been best to leave it in the ground, and start to exploit it in five or ten years time when peak oil starts to kick in.

yeh right on.

then later we can have an independent dundee, and glasgow and newcastle, and then independent streets.

followed by an independent house, then independent rooms with cuboard assemblies to discuss the issues of the day etc.

this 'it was scotlands oil' argument is ill educated ********. just as saying 'it was englands coal'

i notice people in scotland were happy to share that. its a country, not 3 different countries.

its the same tack in scotland as it is in derbyshire.

the sooner we have as intergrated football team call gt britain - the better.

unless you want to get childishly william wallace and self pitying.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

During the Industrial Revolution when the British Empire was at its zenith Wales produced the coal and steel thay built that empire, yet you never hear Scots Nationalists acknowledge that. Cardiff was one of the busiest ports in the world, easily rivalling London and Liverpool. Note also the Scot Nats have never declined the wealth London produces.

Hearing Scots Nationalists bang on about the oil being theirs and theirs alone reminds me of the little boy who threatens to take his ball home unless he can win at a game of football. Selfish, childish and immature.

Its pathetic. Grow up.

Aboriginie saying : "Watching men argue over who owns what land is like watching fleas argue over who owns which dog"

Edited by nmarks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I totally agree - Scotland really blew it in the 70's - if only our parents had voted and taken to the streets - we'd be the richest nation in Europe.

My only hope is independence soon so we don't blow the other half on those subsidy junkies in England.

I voted in that referendum but felt at the time that the whole things was nobbled from down south.

Leaks, dirty tricks etc etc etc

The Queen didnt like the idea and govenment played all their cards to keep Scotland in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And so was Britain in its days as a colonial power. And do you think we are a fair nation? How about the tax shelters and the peculiar way wealth has been concentrated in the hands of the wealthy and our parents?

I wonder if our Tone had a quick conversation with Christ just before one of his lovefests with Bush. What a catholic crone our Tone has turned out to be. Was he a trojan horse? After all, the problems we see today were all of his making as prime minister. Ever here him complain about Browns policies?

Orwell should be mandatory reading for all children and 20 somethings......

The USA does seem more and more like a great big bully.

Now they are busily devaluing the dollar - the main reserve currency of all the nations of the world.

I wonder what really persuaded Blair to go to war in Iraq.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And so was Britain in its days as a colonial power. And do you think we are a fair nation? How about the tax shelters and the peculiar way wealth has been concentrated in the hands of the wealthy and our parents?

I wonder if our Tone had a quick conversation with Christ just before one of his lovefests with Bush. What a catholic crone our Tone has turned out to be. Was he a trojan horse? After all, the problems we see today were all of his making as prime minister. Ever here him complain about Browns policies?

Orwell should be mandatory reading for all children and 20 somethings......

The USA does seem more and more like a great big bully.

Now they are busily devaluing the dollar - the main reserve currency of all the nations of the world.

I wonder what really persuaded Blair to go to war in Iraq.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest anorthosite
Its pathetic. Grow up.

Is that what you say to everyone with a different political opinion?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The industrial chaos that brought Thatcher to power was not an accident of history. It was orchestrated by agents of a foreign power to ensure that a friendly government was in Downing Street whilst this country was looted.

I think the people who have moved into the house opposite me are government spies. I am sure they are there to watch me. What should I do?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And so was Britain in its days as a colonial power. And do you think we are a fair nation? How about the tax shelters and the peculiar way wealth has been concentrated in the hands of the wealthy and our parents?

Tee hee. I'd be a much richer man if my kids didn't keep relieving me of money. 'Don't like school son? No worries, I'll pay for private for you. Having trouble finding the money for your car insurance son? No worries. I'll pay. Can I play golf this weekend Dad? £10 for the round and £5 for snacks - yes no problem son. What's that? You need a new set of clubs because you've grown 6 inches in the last year. Allow me. Cinema with your mates. Of course. Another birthday party to go to? Allow me to fund the purchase of a present. Oh, it's your birthday again ... how about paint-balling and pizza afterwards for 10 of your mates? My pleasure. Football subs? - How much? Oh, just the £110-00 - where's my chequebook? You need new football boots again! I don't give a monkey's who wears them, I'm not paying £150 for a pair of kids football boots. I don't care how many of your mates have got them! Why do you need a new cricket bat? What's wrong with the one I bought you last year. It hasn't got what in the middle? When I was a kid we used to use a lump of 3" x 2" - if we were lucky enough to find a bit that wasn't by fettled by our Dads into somethng useful. Why do need a PS3 as well as an XBox 360 - don't they do the same thing?'

Haven't you seen the figures about how much it costs to bring up kids these days? About 175k each isn't it. And you begrudge it when we ask you to take out a 175k mortgage so we can get our money back! Fair's fair.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Instead, the report said, successive governments used the proceeds from oil and gas fields to keep public borrowing down rather than build up a fighting fund to tackle long-term problems such as the ageing of the population.

"To a significant degree, the money has effectively been handed back to this and other generations since the early 1980s to spend or, in many cases, to invest in housing or other assets."

Those two sentances quoted from the article sum it up for me.

The oil wealth of this country was used to give the baby boomer generation tax cuts which they've now spent or "invested" in housing-as-pensions. The cake has been eaten, and there is no second helping.

Expect a lot of angry boomers when they realise they scoffed their pensions in the 80s and now the cupboards' bare. I can't see heavily indebted 18-30 year old happily handing over 50% of their salaries in taxes to pay feckless boomers what they think they're due.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Interesting.

Why would you say she fought so hard to leave the coal in the ground?

I always view it as accidental genius. If Russia ever turns off the taps then new shafts will be sunk faster than you can blink, and sod the environment.

In case of emergency....dig here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone else here fed up with constant Scottish whingeing about oil? You have your own Parliament, your men are in charge as PM, Chancellor, speaker etc, you can tell us what to do but we can't tell you what to do. You have a massive tax subsidy from the English middle classes on tax. You have no student fees and higher spending per head on health and education. You have an additional huge share of Governement spending on jobs. Ok, in peak years perhaps you didn't get all the oil to yourselves (though if you take the disproportionate allocation of Govt jobs to Scotland as spending this is not obvious...and your politicians at the time would have wasted it in any case), but as oil revenues dwindle I don't see the risk of the subsidy being cut. You even won the rugby last year.

When you are onto such a good deal perhaps you should keep quiet...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tee hee. I'd be a much richer man if my kids didn't keep relieving me of money. 'Don't like school son? No worries, I'll pay for private for you. Having trouble finding the money for your car insurance son? No worries. I'll pay. Can I play golf this weekend Dad? £10 for the round and £5 for snacks - yes no problem son. What's that? You need a new set of clubs because you've grown 6 inches in the last year. Allow me. Cinema with your mates. Of course. Another birthday party to go to? Allow me to fund the purchase of a present. Oh, it's your birthday again ... how about paint-balling and pizza afterwards for 10 of your mates? My pleasure. Football subs? - How much? Oh, just the £110-00 - where's my chequebook? You need new football boots again! I don't give a monkey's who wears them, I'm not paying £150 for a pair of kids football boots. I don't care how many of your mates have got them! Why do you need a new cricket bat? What's wrong with the one I bought you last year. It hasn't got what in the middle? When I was a kid we used to use a lump of 3" x 2" - if we were lucky enough to find a bit that wasn't by fettled by our Dads into somethng useful. Why do need a PS3 as well as an XBox 360 - don't they do the same thing?'

Haven't you seen the figures about how much it costs to bring up kids these days? About 175k each isn't it. And you begrudge it when we ask you to take out a 175k mortgage so we can get our money back! Fair's fair.

You're too easy on your son! Make him pay now with interest! :D

I should have gone into banking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll quote the famous bumper sticker from the 1986 Oil slump in Aberdeen.

"Please Lord send us another Oil Boom

Next time we won't Piss it against a wall"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 293 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.