House Price Increases And Global Warming

[Sheer Heart Attack]

Ah, the new paradigm. House prices can never crash.

I loved the wonderful way that, during the bubble, dozens of different reasons were trotted out as to why this time it really was different. Banks lending on "affordability" rather than income multiple, millions of immigrants, housing shortage and so on and so on.

Like all bad ideas, it catches on and people buy into it. Remember how, during the dot.bomb bubble, giants like Tesco, GM and steel manufactureres were jokingly called "legacy businesses"?

The global warming train has truly comes of the rails now.

Temperature Monitors Report Widescale Global Cooling

www.dailytech.com, February 26 2008

Twelve-month long drop in world temperatures wipes out a century of warming

Over the past year, anecdotal evidence for a cooling planet has exploded. China has its coldest winter in 100 years. Baghdad sees its first snow in all recorded history. North America has the most snowcover in 50 years, with places like Wisconsin the highest since record-keeping began. Record levels of Antarctic sea ice, record cold in Minnesota, Texas, Florida, Mexico, Australia, Iran, Greece, South Africa, Greenland, Argentina, Chile -- the list goes on and on.

No more than anecdotal evidence, to be sure. But now, that evidence has been supplanted by hard scientific fact. All four major global temperature tracking outlets (Hadley, NASA's GISS, UAH, RSS) have released updated data. All show that over the past year, global temperatures have dropped precipitously.

A compiled list of all the sources can be seen here. The total amount of cooling ranges from 0.65C up to 0.75C -- a value large enough to wipe out most of the warming recorded over the past 100 years. All in one year's time. For all four sources, it's the single fastest temperature change ever recorded, either up or down.

Scientists quoted in a past DailyTech article link the cooling to reduced solar activity which they claim is a much larger driver of climate change than man-made greenhouse gases. The dramatic cooling seen in just 12 months time seems to bear that out. While the data doesn't itself disprove that carbon dioxide is acting to warm the planet, it does demonstrate clearly that more powerful factors are now cooling it.

Let's hope those factors stop fast. Cold is more damaging than heat. The mean temperature of the planet is about 54 degrees. Humans -- and most of the crops and animals we depend on -- prefer a temperature closer to 70.

Historically, the warm periods such as the Medieval Climate Optimum were beneficial for civilization. Corresponding cooling events such as the Little Ice Age, though, were uniformly bad news.

The cultists sure are building up some shocking negative equity now!

[maxdiver]

One swallow doesn't make a summer.

I do like your talk about smoking.

As an occasional cigar chomper - i have looked into the idea that smoking causes cancer.

I'd say it does yes - but to what extent.

some cancers are increased by 10 times with smoking - but the acutal risk is still in the millions to one.

and all the talk about how cigarettes contain all these chemicals - well - maybe all these chemicals are not that bad for you as they say.

drink causes a lot more problems than smoking - not just healthwise.

As a scientific-minded person i always when confronted with "X is bad" - i ask "how bad exactly".

and - those that gather information are never those that tell you about it - which government spokesperson acutally knows inside-out the surveys/results that they are talking about?

[domo]

Tax breaks for 4x4s? Subsidies from the government for buying petrol and diesel? Coal fired power stations? If were ever going to avert global cooling this is what we need to be doing! Quick alert Al Gore, the global warming caused by Co2 is not working anymore so we need to burn.. wait this is confusing?

[Guest X-QUORK]

I wonder if the mods will be fooled by the first paragraph and houses being mentioned in the thread title?

Hope not.

Do one Flat Earth Society.

[Guest Skint Academic]

Oh look! Another global warming thread that won't get moved off-topic.

[Guest anorthosite]

Oh look, another thread from the Pacific State about global warming. Please keep posting these as anyone who reads the quotes in your signature will know just how much credibility to give you.

I wonder if this'll get moved off topic

[domo]

Oh look, another thread from the Pacific State about global warming. Please keep posting these as anyone who reads the quotes in your signature will know just how much credibility to give you.

I wonder if this'll get moved off topic

Why? I agree with his sig. Every time I go to toilet at work now its filled with smokers?!.. I had no problem with them killing themselves before, and although I don't mind passively breathing in the smoke in the toilets it means I can never take a dump anymore!

[babesagainstmachines]

He is just drawing a parrellel with the "house prices only ever go up" mantra.

If you examine statistics about climate, or smoking, or whatever, and the statistics stop supporting your agenda, you are certain to dismiss them as an anomoly. The real problem comes when you are a lawmaker and you make laws based on flawed statistics, or the anomolies turn out to not being anomolies. Continuing to bury your head in the sand then is harmful to society, and you have restricted peoples freedom of choice to act appropriately.

[Godfather]

Oh dear! And Global Warming was supposed to be the next big bubble to keep the UK economy affloat.

[I want a house!]

Ah, the new paradigm. House prices can never crash.

I loved the wonderful way that, during the bubble, dozens of different reasons were trotted out as to why this time it really was different. Banks lending on "affordability" rather than income multiple, millions of immigrants, housing shortage and so on and so on.

Like all bad ideas, it catches on and people buy into it. Remember how, during the dot.bomb bubble, giants like Tesco, GM and steel manufactureres were jokingly called "legacy businesses"?

The global warming train has truly comes of the rails now.

Temperature Monitors Report Widescale Global Cooling

www.dailytech.com, February 26 2008

The cultists sure are building up some shocking negative equity now!

The answer will be, this is what global warming causes. Extremes in weather... Wait, someone will tell you that earnestly.

[Sheer Heart Attack]

Oh look, another thread from the Pacific State about global warming. Please keep posting these as anyone who reads the quotes in your signature will know just how much credibility to give you.

I wonder if this'll get moved off topic

I'm fine with the fact that you go along with the funded science brigade that bring out statistics in their favour.

The minute they don't though, you start wailing like babies.

Would you care to dispute any of the findings in either the report I quote or the quotes in my signature? Of course not. That would require separating yourself from the herd. Good luck with that!

[Sheer Heart Attack]

One swallow doesn't make a summer.

I do like your talk about smoking.

As an occasional cigar chomper - i have looked into the idea that smoking causes cancer.

I'd say it does yes - but to what extent.

some cancers are increased by 10 times with smoking - but the acutal risk is still in the millions to one.

and all the talk about how cigarettes contain all these chemicals - well - maybe all these chemicals are not that bad for you as they say.

Exactly. The passive smoking cultists at ASH and in HMG can't quite seem to reconcile that although smoking has halved in the last 30 years, "smoking"-related diseases have soared. Check out figures on cancer and asthma if you want clarification.

Just like houses prices, just like global warming, the passive smoking cultists ignore all other possibilities because their funders don't think it tells the right story.

I do love winding up the global warming cultists. Nearly as good as winding up BTLers.

drink causes a lot more problems than smoking - not just healthwise.

As a scientific-minded person i always when confronted with "X is bad" - i ask "how bad exactly".

and - those that gather information are never those that tell you about it - which government spokesperson acutally knows inside-out the surveys/results that they are talking about?

Yesterday, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, our esteemed and knowledgable Health Secretary said that the smoking ban was not harming the licenced trade.

[Methinkshe]

Oh dear! And Global Warming was supposed to be the next big bubble to keep the UK economy affloat.

It still will be - you don't for a moment think that the global warming cultists will give up that easily, do you? Billions of dollars and millions of jobs are dependent on keeping up the fiction that is global warming.

The best that sceptics can do is prepare for global cooling because we sure will not dislodge the warming brigade. If God Himself came down from heaven and said the world was cooling, the warmists wouldn't believe it. Let them get on with it, I say. Only make sure that if you invest in the global warming bubble, you get out before it bursts as it inevitably will.

Edited for typo.

Edited February 28, 2008 by Methinkshe

[fluffy666]

I'm fine with the fact that you go along with the funded science brigade that bring out statistics in their favour.

The minute they don't though, you start wailing like babies.

So.. errmm.. the same people who were faking the data to prove global warming have suddenly stopped faking it because .. errm.. no.. the data are suddenly right because they show what you want to see.. errm.. and 30 years of data isn't enough to show global warming.. but 12 months is enough to show global cooling..

It's the sheer unadultarated hypocrisy of climate change denialists that amazes me. Oh, and the report you cite dosen't have any findings to dispute - if your idea of stastical analysis is to cherry pick a hot month and a cold month in the record to claim 'cooling', then it's more your mathmatical literacy you have to dispute.

[Sheer Heart Attack]

It's the sheer unadultarated hypocrisy...

Brilliant! And from a confirmed cultist too!

Sheer unadulterated hypocrisy? What about the scaremongering about polar bears, matie? Or the huge inconsistencies in Al Gore's global warming porn?

Pot, warming kettle, black.

[Methinkshe]

So.. errmm.. the same people who were faking the data to prove global warming have suddenly stopped faking it because .. errm.. no.. the data are suddenly right because they show what you want to see.. errm.. and 30 years of data isn't enough to show global warming.. but 12 months is enough to show global cooling..

It's the sheer unadultarated hypocrisy of climate change denialists that amazes me. Oh, and the report you cite dosen't have any findings to dispute - if your idea of stastical analysis is to cherry pick a hot month and a cold month in the record to claim 'cooling', then it's more your mathmatical literacy you have to dispute.

Have it your way - as for me, this summer I shall be building up my stockpile of wood for my wood-burning stove and in every way possible preparing for global cooling.

[Guest Skint Academic]

This is interesting, and just a little bit disturbing too. OK, let's go along with the theory that global warming is a scam or is hyped up for the moment. What would we expect? A steady decline in the rate of temperature increase as the system saturates? A flattening out of the global temperature as the world finds a balance again? Or perhaps even a gentle cooling as we approach the end of some cycle which had fooled us all along?

All this would go along with the idea that we were being fooled. And when I opened up that link that's what I was expecting. The difficulty would be to determine whether it was a blip or the start of something new. But actually, we get something else.

From that quoted webpage

All show that over the past year, global temperatures have dropped precipitously.

"Precipitously"! That was unexpected! Look at the graph. It's mental!

That suggests some critical threshold in the system has been reached. But what could cause that?

http://www.dinosauria.com/jdp/news/freeze.html

Scientists have long known that a severe cold spell occurred after the end of the Pleistocene glaciation, approximately 8,200 years ago. The cause, however, has been a mystery. The authors of the Nature article write that the centuries long cold spell might have been caused by meltwater from the disappearing glaciers, cooling the North Atlantic.

The Laurentide Ice Sheet covered parts of North America with ice up to two miles thick for more than a million years. When the Earth began to warm 10,000 years ago, it retreated back toward the poles. The ice sheet left in its wake at least two lakes containing more water than the Great Lakes combined.

In the Hudson Bay, ice held the water in place like a plug in a bathtub. When the plug finally melted, trillions of gallons gushed into the Labrador Sea, flowing out at 100 times the rate water leaves the Mississippi.

The conclusions of the authors are the result of a study by University of Colorado and Canadian researchers who examined evidence of this huge flood in the Hudson Bay region of Quebec and Ontario.

Independent research showed that global temperatures dropped significantly within several hundred years of the flood. Until this study, nobody could pinpoint if these two events were connected, said the study's lead author, University of Colorado geologist Don Barber. The scientists used radiocarbon dating of clams in the flood sediment, and other evidence, to correlate the two events.

The Atlantic Gulf Stream normally acts like a conveyor belt to deliver warm tropical water to temperate regions. By adding so much cold fresh water in such a short time, the flood shut down the Gulf Stream, said Richard Alley, a climate expert at Penn State University.

Temperatures in Greenland and Europe dropped by 6 to 15 degrees for at least 200 years, according to ice core data.

The authors conclusions demonstrate how global warming can, paradoxically, provoke a global freeze. If a modern glacier such as the Greenland Ice Sheet melts as a result of rising temperatures in the next century, it could trigger a similar flood and climate fluctuation, the researchers said.

Edited February 28, 2008 by Skint Academic

[Sheer Heart Attack]

Have it your way - as for me, this summer I shall be building up my stockpile of wood for my wood-burning stove and in every way possible preparing for global cooling.

Exactly - tell the cultist the reality.

After 9/11 when the planes stopped flying emitting all that nasty CO2, didn't New York actually warm up? Should it not cool the city because the CO2 from planes was not present?

[SMAC67]

It still will be - you don't for a moment think that the global warming cultists will give up that easily, do you? Billions of dollars and millions of jobs are dependent on keeping up the fiction that is global warming.

The best that sceptics can do is prepare for global cooling because we sure will not dislodge the warming brigade. If God Himself came down from heaven and said the world was cooling, the warmists wouldn't believe it. Let them get on with it, I say. Only make sure that if you invest in the global warming bubble, you get out before it bursts as it inevitably will.

Edited for typo.

I really would love to know who is making all this money from Global Warming theories. Millions of jobs, where? What in God's name are you blethering on about?

We have a debt based exponential growth world wide economy. No-one, not even Al Gore, can stop it. The only reason it will stop is that it will naturally reach the limit of growth, at which point the sustainability of life on this planet will go into reverse. The planet will never die, but it's ability to sustain life can be altered. We have nearly 7 billion people on the planet, one individual alone cannot alter the planet, but 7 billion can.

The parallels with smoking are interesting, guess what, smoke a fag today and you won't die tonight, however it will have an effect on your body, keep smoking and you are 100% guaranteed to die as a result of your habit. The only way to avoid it is to die by some other cause.

Moving onto house prices, the inability to sustain exponential economic growth will result in a drastic reduction in the unnaturally inflated world of property. Without credit (or is that debt) expansion, the money suply cannot increase, and therefore the amount of credit available will reduce. Ergo house prices in the long term will reduce.

Perhaps you want to discuss other conspiracies, the moon landings, Princess Diana's death, area 51.........

As for Global Warming as a term, the planet much like economies, varies around a mean, it will naturally respond to warming by producing an ice age. The world has always varied in it's ability to sustain life, the $64,000 question is how it will sustain record numbers of human beings............do you have the answer yet............it won't........sorry, you canny change the laws of physics as Scottie would say.

Edited February 28, 2008 by SMAC67

[jdc]

Is there not a minimum amount of time between people who don't understand or believe in science being systematically humiliated after posting off-topic links they don't understand, and people posting the exact same links? There ought to be.

What those figures appear to say is that

At a solar minimum;

During a Nina switchover;

We still have temperatures noticeably above average.

Of course climate change causes snow more often where you wouldn't generally expect snow. It changes wind directions, and it increases the amount of water in the atmosphere by raising sea temperatures.

Anyway I can't be bothered.

[Methinkshe]

Global warming or global cooling are both a matter of belief - faith, if you like. The future CANNOT be predicted with any certainty, all that can be done is via modelling and extrapolation of trends etc etc and the outcome of these often depends on the bias/predisposition of those inputting the data. Beliefs should NEVER be politicised, but that is what has occurred with global warming. That's why we sceptics are so anti the cult of global warming.

Therefore, if it's okay with you global warmists, may I choose to believe that global cooling is more likely in the near future and prepare for that? I'm quite happy to allow you to prepare for global warming, just so long as you don't force me to join in.

[Sheer Heart Attack]

This is interesting, and just a little bit disturbing too. OK, let's go along with the theory that global warming is a scam or is hyped up for the moment. What would we expect? A steady decline in the rate of temperature increase as the system saturates? A flattening out of the global temperature as the world finds a balance again? Or perhaps even a gentle cooling as we approach the end of some cycle which had fooled us all along?

All this would go along with the idea that we were being fooled. And when I opened up that link that's what I was expecting. The difficulty would be to determine whether it was a blip or the start of something new. But actually, we get something else.

How about just admitting that, as a species, we're not clever enough to understand the atmosphere and what effects certain changes cause in it instead of scaring everyone witless?

Why not concentrate people's minds on the fact that fossil fuels are a finite resource and legislating manufacturers and other companies to improve fuel efficiency?

[SMAC67]

Remind me of your thoughts when you are starving.......

[piece of paper]

One swallow doesn't make a summer.

I do like your talk about smoking.

As an occasional cigar chomper - i have looked into the idea that smoking causes cancer.

I'd say it does yes - but to what extent.

some cancers are increased by 10 times with smoking - but the acutal risk is still in the millions to one.

and all the talk about how cigarettes contain all these chemicals - well - maybe all these chemicals are not that bad for you as they say.

drink causes a lot more problems than smoking - not just healthwise.

As a scientific-minded person i always when confronted with "X is bad" - i ask "how bad exactly".

and - those that gather information are never those that tell you about it - which government spokesperson acutally knows inside-out the surveys/results that they are talking about?

Exactly. The passive smoking cultists at ASH and in HMG can't quite seem to reconcile that although smoking has halved in the last 30 years, "smoking"-related diseases have soared. Check out figures on cancer and asthma if you want clarification.

Just like houses prices, just like global warming, the passive smoking cultists ignore all other possibilities because their funders don't think it tells the right story.

I do love winding up the global warming cultists. Nearly as good as winding up BTLers.

Yesterday, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, our esteemed and knowledgable Health Secretary said that the smoking ban was not harming the licenced trade.

The smoking ban is a borrowed policy from Nazi Germany (see http://www.bmj.com/archive/7070nd2.htm). I wonder how many others are in the pipeline? ID cards, penalties without trial, moving the burden of proof?

Also interesting is the types who fall into the smoking and non-smoking camps:

Churchill, Stalin, and Roosevelt were all fond of tobacco.

Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco were all non-smokers.

Did Stalin give up after WWII?

p-o-p

[beefheart]

Exactly - tell the cultist the reality.

After 9/11 when the planes stopped flying emitting all that nasty CO2, didn't New York actually warm up? Should it not cool the city because the CO2 from planes was not present?

You idiot :

Global warming causes cooling. Global warming causeth the sun to rise and the moon to cross the sky. Global warming causeth all things to happen.