Skills Shortage

[dubsie]

I have been having a look through the job papers recently just our of interest and I have noticed something very alarming. Very few companies are offering training anymore. This is very worrying as this country has already got a skills shortage but if no one is training staff then this is going to get a lot worse. As an engineer I have core skills but new technology such as heat pumps require new and constant training to keep you up to date....as far as I can see companies don't appear to be interested in improving the skills of their staff.

Has anyone else noticed this and does anyone know why?

[29929BlackTuesday]

Not seen it in my sphere but it's a sign, surely, of the fact that they don't plan to be around in a few years therefore don't want to train?

Engineers only exist in active countries don't they? What do we do here? X-factor and chavs.

[Live Peasant]

I have been having a look through the job papers recently just our of interest and I have noticed something very alarming. Very few companies are offering training anymore. This is very worrying as this country has already got a skills shortage but if no one is training staff then this is going to get a lot worse. As an engineer I have core skills but new technology such as heat pumps require new and constant training to keep you up to date....as far as I can see companies don't appear to be interested in improving the skills of their staff.

Has anyone else noticed this and does anyone know why?

Because Board rooms are stuffed full of Sales and Marketing spivs. You don't need to train somebody to lie i.e. be a salesman, many people can do it naturally.

Consider this, in the UK if you ask a father what he wants for his son he will tell you it is his wish that the boy plays football for Eng-er-land.

A German will tell you that he wants his lad to get to the board of Siemens.

The difference is short termism vs long term investment and aspiration. Sales people don't see the value in training people because it impacts next Friday's figures

Edited February 25, 2008 by linuxgeek

[dubsie]

The amount of jobs with unrealistic expectations on skill sets that I'm seeing week after week in the same job papers. Surely it would make more sense to take someone with the core skills but train them on the job specifics.

[Live Peasant]

The amount of jobs with unrealistic expectations on skill sets that I'm seeing week after week in the same job papers. Surely it would make more sense to take someone with the core skills but train them on the job specifics.

I've always gone on the basis that if I meet 40% of the job criteria I have a beter than even chance of getting the contract.

[cartimandua51]

I have been having a look through the job papers recently just our of interest and I have noticed something very alarming. Very few companies are offering training anymore. This is very worrying as this country has already got a skills shortage but if no one is training staff then this is going to get a lot worse. As an engineer I have core skills but new technology such as heat pumps require new and constant training to keep you up to date....as far as I can see companies don't appear to be interested in improving the skills of their staff.

Has anyone else noticed this and does anyone know why?

Been the case for ages. Companies want employees who "can hit the ground running". Therefore everyone wants to poach staff that other people have trained; they certainly don't want to train up youngsters and then have them leave for a better paid - or just different - job. This even applies to shop assistants. When my teenage daughter wanted a part-time job she ran up against this time and again while looking; fortunately a Japanese firm (Uniqlo) were opening, advertised for trainees and gave them three days intensive training.

Since then she's had firms biting her hand off and has never been unemployed during her student days; but WTF, how difficult / expensive is it for a British firm to provide something as simple as a day or two's training for a shopgirl?? As someone said , rank short-termism, and the longer the training necessary, the worse the problem.

[dubsie]

Unfortunately 40% these days doesn't get you the job....if they say must of experience of.....................................................

[Ted D. Bear]

...as far as I can see companies don't appear to be interested in improving the skills of their staff.

Has anyone else noticed this and does anyone know why?

Employees are expected to keep their own skills up to date these days. Reasoning goes that training is only of value to a company so long as the employee stays with them, whereas the employee gains those skills for life and so they should pay for it. Most companies I've had anything to do with offer next to no training, the exception being where it's a regulatory requirement, and I think would like to offload the responsibility for it to individuals and the government. I think the increased emphasis on post-18 education is largely down to employers not providing any meaningful training anymore, like pensions it's another cost that must now be borne by the workers themselves and taxpayers.

[dubsie]

Been the case for ages. Companies want employees who "can hit the ground running". Therefore everyone wants to poach staff that other people have trained; they certainly don't want to train up youngsters and then have them leave for a better paid - or just different - job. This even applies to shop assistants. When my teenage daughter wanted a part-time job she ran up against this time and again while looking; fortunately a Japanese firm (Uniqlo) were opening, advertised for trainees and gave them three days intensive training.

Since then she's had firms biting her hand off and has never been unemployed during her student days; but WTF, how difficult / expensive is it for a British firm to provide something as simple as a day or two's training for a shopgirl?? As someone said , rank short-termism, and the longer the training necessary, the worse the problem.

On that basis we are going to run out of skills.

[Live Peasant]

Unfortunately 40% these days doesn't get you the job....if they say must of experience of.....................................................

It's mostly HR ******** - they're trying to sell an image of an exciting cutting edge career with a market leader blah blah blah

In reality, 9-10 hours a day of total drudge with the odd interesting bit.

[OzzMosiz]

I took a job in October with a 10% pay rise, and I've had LOADS of training. In fact I've had 5 proper training course, and 3 others that help a bit.

Nice!!

[dubsie]

Employees are expected to keep their own skills up to date these days. Reasoning goes that training is only of value to a company so long as the employee stays with them, whereas the employee gains those skills for life and so they should pay for it. Most companies I've had anything to do with offer next to no training, the exception being where it's a regulatory requirement, and I think would like to offload the responsibility for it to individuals and the government. I think the increased emphasis on post-18 education is largely down to employers not providing any meaningful training anymore, like pensions it's another cost that must now be borne by the workers themselves and taxpayers.

But in Germany they take a different approach, they train all their staff.

[cartimandua51]

On that basis we are going to run out of skills.

Yup. Three guesses as to why Polish plumbers were so welcome!

[Ted D. Bear]

But in Germany they take a different approach, they train all their staff.

Yeah, but like we've been told for decades the German model is a dead end, low skill services orientated economy is the way of the future, blah blah blah.

[dubsie]

I think if the UK continues in this way we really are going to hit rock bottom.

[29929BlackTuesday]

I took a job in October with a 10% pay rise, and I've had LOADS of training. In fact I've had 5 proper training course, and 3 others that help a bit.

Nice!!

Army?

[dubsie]

For example as a heating engineer I'm now expected to pay for my ACS renewals, pay for my own CSCS card...which is required by law.....it's getting crazy. What is the point of being employed..I might as well stay working for myself.

[Ted D. Bear]

I think if the UK continues in this way we really are going to hit rock bottom.

Yup, but hard to see how we'll change direction. I wish I could find a link, but Bill Joy (Chief Scientist at Sun Microsystems) made a great speech about how when Sun floated its ability to do anything long term vanished, and I think training its workforce would come under that. The strain of capitalism that puts shareholders before all else looks to me to be non-viable in the long term.

[dubsie]

Yup, but hard to see how we'll change direction. I wish I could find a link, but Bill Joy (Chief Scientist at Sun Microsystems) made a great speech about how when Sun floated its ability to do anything long term vanished, and I think training its workforce would come under that. The strain of capitalism that puts shareholders before all else looks to me to be non-viable in the long term.

I think that is bang on. With competition and the demands of share holders has made it almost impossibe to cost in training or development. Unless you are working for a company that is making good margins and is commited to skills development then you're going to be on the scrap heap by the time you reach 40.

[u4d18]

Dubsie, you're spot on. I worked for the same company for nearly 10 years (I'm an instrument and control engineer). When I first started the company was very training orientated. But slowly this has dwindled from doing a number of courses every year on updating technical skills to doing only mandatory courses for health and safety (e.g. fire fighter refresher training every 2 years...).

training budgets have been slashed and the idea for developing engineers is to buy them in.... which we're failing at because good quality engineers are in short supply. At least our company still has it's apprenticeship scheme, but there is a gap between the trade and the engineer that isn't being met,

[Kevlarhead]

Training costs money. Money can be better spent on shareholder dividends, and ensuring the senior manager gets his bonus for being under budget.

If employee want a job, they need to train themselves. Shareholders shouldn't have to go short because the company 'needs' to train its staff. What are you, some kind of communist?

[Ted D. Bear]

I think that is bang on. With competition and the demands of share holders has made it almost impossibe to cost in training or development. Unless you are working for a company that is making good margins and is commited to skills development then you're going to be on the scrap heap by the time you reach 40.

What's sad is that firms that cut corners in the short term will crowd out those trying to plan for the long term. The end result will be that British companies will be overtaken by those from countries where companies are able to plan for the long term without such fear of being punished by 'The City'.

[Guest Skint Academic]

When I worked at a corporation in 2006 I was very lucky in that I managed to leave just before they sent me off on the only training day that had ever been considered. It was an "R&D" department (*cough*, with emphasis on the "D") and they weren't going to send me off to train me in anything that would be useful to me outside of the company. In fact I can't even remember what the training was supposed to be about it was that useless. But it would have meant having to get up really early, get home really late and be really bored all day long.

When they found out that I was leaving they had to find some other poor sucker to go on it.

I personally love to learn new things. But I equally hate to learn useless crap.

[Not Long Now]

Yeah, but like we've been told for decades the German model is a dead end, low skill services orientated economy is the way of the future, blah blah blah.

The problem is the flexible labour market we have in the UK. There is no incentive to invest in training staff if the majority of staff are temps or are employed on temporary contracts.

The result: companies can't be arsed to invest in training, and if you're sh*t at the job, they can just fire you and take a punt on someone else. The UK is then bottom of the productivity league tables year in, year out.

[gavp]

It's just a by-product of the culture we seem to have in this country were management see labour as a commodity to be used up and spat out when no longer needed, rather than an asset to be invested in. It's why Germany still has a car industry long after the British one was wound down and sold off for a fast buck. It's the service economy all the way for us now...