So What Do You Do?

[too soon to buy?]

Hi all, I'm an accountant working for the government. I don't hate estate agents, I mean, they can earn a good living when times are good and their job is at risk when times are bad, so you can't blame them for coining it in when they can.\

What i do think upsets people, including myself, is that they don't seem to do any work for their money and the rules of customer service do not always apply, even though, as the buyer, you are a customer. When we were looking to buy, we did most of the chasing, i.e. religiously checking websites and calling daily to see if anything had come on, once we arranfged a meeting (at the EA convenience, not ours) often the EA would not turn up for the viewing (sometimes house had gone, sometimes he was just too busy elsewhere to find the courtesy to cancel our appointment). Furthermore, if you like a house as a buyer, you like it, you don't need an EA telling you "so here's the bedroom, what a nice, erm, window - so here's the kitchen, isnt it modern?" etc

I wish you could get an EA as a buyer, I think they do this in the US, where you commission an Agent to find you a house to YOUR specification and YOUR budget, and he only gets paid when he gets you a house that you buy for a price you want. This would at least get you some bang for your buck!

[Lone_Twin]

I think you are wrong.

IT Managers get quickly p1ssed off with an Agency that wastes their time sending them rubbish.

A good IT recruitment Agency when it has a good candidate CV can place the person in a matter of hours.

Using attrition by making inumerable phone calls to place staff that are unsuitable is the bain of the industry, hence the reason most IT Managers worth their salt refuse to take calls from Recruitment Consultants pestering them with second rate candidates.

Having worked both sides of the fence I can assure you I am right.

.

However we may be talking at cross purposes, I am not talking about swamping people with unsuitable candidates but rather having the highest number of like vacancies (by cold calling me and you constantly) to increase your chances of placing the one or two good candidates that might come over your desk in a week.

.

As for blocking agency calls, thats fine but what makes the ones you have working for you better than the ones calling, how do you know? Anything apart from contingency fees (pay on placement) is rare in the UK so you have nothing to loose. If they don't come up with the goods just tell them to sod off. If you like the candidate stump up the cash you agreed to pay in the begining. Pretty simple really.

.

My fastest ever contract placement from requirement to signatures was 2.5hrs. Once did a perm in 48hrs.

.

ST

[Guest Charlie The Tramp]

I'd be happy to post what I do, but not until the censorship on this board stops. The moderators are unknown, nameless, faceless individuals. They prevent people from posting new topics until they have vetted them by some unknown process. They prevent people from PM'ing others for the same reason. This is not an open free site welcoming discussion, it might just as well be run by some government department. Or prove me wrong and come clean?

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...mp;#entry917508

Post #20

Just out of interest are you a right or a left sock ?

[A.steve]

I wish you could get an EA as a buyer

Me too!!! That way they'd be doing something useful.

Budget X; requirements Y. Find nothing suitable - don't get paid.

You're describing my utopia.

[laurejon]

Having worked both sides of the fence I can assure you I am right.

.

However we may be talking at cross purposes, I am not talking about swamping people with unsuitable candidates but rather having the highest number of like vacancies (by cold calling me and you constantly) to increase your chances of placing the one or two good candidates that might come over your desk in a week.

.

As for blocking agency calls, thats fine but what makes the ones you have working for you better than the ones calling, how do you know? Anything apart from contingency fees (pay on placement) is rare in the UK so you have nothing to loose. If they don't come up with the goods just tell them to sod off. If you like the candidate stump up the cash you agreed to pay in the begining. Pretty simple really.

.

My fastest ever contract placement from requirement to signatures was 2.5hrs. Once did a perm in 48hrs.

.

ST

Might be fine for a small organisation run by a family, however in a Corporation with many hiring slots available its both time consuming and irritating sitting in an interview whereby even the candidate in the first few minutes realises he is the subject of an ill thought out sales push.

I think there is a huge market for a recruitment company that sends candidates that are a very good fit for the role.

A friend of mine who works in recruitment recently told me of a prospective client requesting an Oracle DBA, he then went on to say "Also Windows Server, Aix, Sun Platform Support, Visual Basic, Perl, and Strong Networking Skills" She asked if would be expected to work in those areas in his role as DBA, and the reply was "No but why not ask for it" she explained that it was not a good idea to extend the wish list as many people with VB skills will call and say they have VB but not Oracle, far better to just define exactly what you want and let the experienced recruiter get on with the job.

She placed an Oracle DBA with the Company, and they are so pleased they have given her many more placements since.

[A.steve]

I think there is a huge market for a recruitment company that sends candidates that are a very good fit for the role.

There's also, likely, a huge market for recruitment driven by stating expectations without bu115hit.

Edited January 9, 2008 by A.steve

[laurejon]

There's also, likely, a huge market for recruitment driven by stating expectations without bu115hit.

I agree entirely.

Its amazing some of the dribble the recruiters put in the Ads, and to be honest most people who could do the job with their eyes shut turn the page as it reflects badly on the organisation they are recruiting for.

[Son of Taeper]

..............as problems caught eariler are cheaper and easier to rectify but for some reason lots of engineers take review comments personally.

Way to go!!!

I work like crazy at the beginning of a project because with tight schedules the sooner one can find a problem the sooner it can be rectified. Miss your time slot with another department and they will move on. I switch off when I see rectifiable problems not being addressed.

[Son of Taeper]

.

I didn't work temps I was placing perm and contract IT personel.

For those who don't know how it works.

Contractually I engaged the company that the contractor worked for and they supply the "authorised personel" of course it is a company of one person usualy but that means they can sort their own working conditions including holiday out and its none of mine (or my clients ) business.

I'm not talking temps, I'm talking contract. P.A.Y.E. contract to be precise. Post IR35 when a lot of Ltd Co contractors went P.A.Y.E.contract.

Most agents started doing "holiday pay" and "rolled up holiday pay" for Ltd Co contractors in an effort to get round the law. I could put my agent away with what I've got on him and get all my back pay back. The thing is, I spoke to another agent who openly admitted he did the same thing and explained why and the simple reason was, there was no way he could stay in business without screwing the likes of me. He was not a charity, he was a business.

[Paddles]

I'm not talking temps, I'm talking contract. P.A.Y.E. contract to be precise. Post IR35 when a lot of Ltd Co contractors went P.A.Y.E.contract.

Most agents started doing "holiday pay" and "rolled up holiday pay" for Ltd Co contractors in an effort to get round the law. I could put my agent away with what I've got on him and get all my back pay back. The thing is, I spoke to another agent who openly admitted he did the same thing and explained why and the simple reason was, there was no way he could stay in business without screwing the likes of me. He was not a charity, he was a business.

IR35 is for the birds. Why can't you get around it?

[Lone_Twin]

IR35 is for the birds. Why can't you get around it?

Agreed, I never dealt with a contractor that wanted a PAYE contract.

Maybe its a different market, I was placing SAP contractors generally.

.

ST

[Guest An Bearin Bui]

One word for you to ponder; "eBay".

I've often wondered why Estate Agents still exist in such numbers in the internet age...

It's a left-of-field theory but it could be due to the housing boom itself: it's excluded FTBs who are of an age-group more likely to buy online and it's also wildly inflated people's expectations of what they can make on selling their house so the resultant greed has made sellers a.) cavalier about paying EAs big commission and b.) convinced they can make even more money if they pay a good EA to 'market' the property.

In my opinion, EAs are a bit like travel agents: anyone under 40 doesn't use them and use online sites instead. There are all kinds of travel specialists that try to sell you package deals, bespoke travel experiences etc etc but I've rarely heard of anyone under 40 using these services. Most are happy to do the research and find deals themselves online. Only older people go down the route of calling in person to the travel agents and take their word on costs for granted. Once the HPC comes and younger people re-enter the housing market, I think EAs will suffer a double-whammy - less business because of the crash and less footfall anyway due to the younger age-profile of buyers.

[Paddles]

It's a left-of-field theory but it could be due to the housing boom itself: it's excluded FTBs who are of an age-group more likely to buy online and it's also wildly inflated people's expectations of what they can make on selling their house so the resultant greed has made sellers a.) cavalier about paying EAs big commission and b.) convinced they can make even more money if they pay a good EA to 'market' the property.

In my opinion, EAs are a bit like travel agents: anyone under 40 doesn't use them and use online sites instead. There are all kinds of travel specialists that try to sell you package deals, bespoke travel experiences etc etc but I've rarely heard of anyone under 40 using these services. Most are happy to do the research and find deals themselves online. Only older people go down the route of calling in person to the travel agents and take their word on costs for granted. Once the HPC comes and younger people re-enter the housing market, I think EAs will suffer a double-whammy - less business because of the crash and less footfall anyway due to the younger age-profile of buyers.

I agree with you to a degree. I think that the EAs will lose out to the self-sell websites post-crash but not for the reason that buyers are looking to use the internet sites more but because the sellers are trying to keep their costs down.

If I were in the unfortunate position of having to sell a property today, I would list it on all of the self-sell websites. In addition I would go to one EA and tell them that this percentage mullarkey is for fools; you can sell my property for a flat fee agreed up front.

[Son of Taeper]

IR35 is for the birds. Why can't you get around it?

Nature of the business. I could go into a 2 month contract and still be there a year later.

Sub contracting is even worse. If they like you, they keep you but whilst you get to work on the required amount of jobs to get around ir35, because you do them through one company you don't qualify

Agreed, I never dealt with a contractor that wanted a PAYE contract.

Maybe its a different market, I was placing SAP contractors generally.

.

ST

No contractor in their right mind would want a P.A.Y.E. contract 5 years ago. As I said, a lot were forced into it by IR35.

IT, CAD & Software guys can get around it without too much trouble by working from home and/or doing two part time jobs. I really have to be on site the majority of time.

Added to that, I often require MOD security clearance which rules out me sending in another person.

[Lone_Twin]

Me too!!! That way they'd be doing something useful.

Budget X; requirements Y. Find nothing suitable - don't get paid.

You're describing my utopia.

You know "Phil" as in Kirsty and Phil?

.

Thats what his company does.

.

ST

[damianlsmith]

This question is highly personal and possibly intrusive I know, if it's a problem for you I'd suggest not answering. The reason I'm interested is that as a mortgage-broker I feel obliged to declare how I earn my crust in this type of forum, I think the same would go for an EA.

I've noticed a lot of blanket criticism of, in particular, EAs. Dismissed as gel-haired wearers of cheap suits and spivs, I've often wondered what those who criticise do that is some damn worthy. Also I'd be interested in what people's perception is when it comes to the security of their job in the coming recession and indeed if they are thinking of re-training or moving to a different sector.

mods - this is probably off-topic and possibly inapropriate please move if necessary.

I am a Civil Engineer

[subsidiser]

I do BTL.

And I have a bit of a stake in a property developer.

But mostly I do I.T.

[Abbey Well]

Are you taking the pis$$?

I think you will find he is treating it not taking it!

[OzzMosiz]

Interesting you should say this.

My perception exactly, we have five hiring slots and the agency that supplies us has provided three candidates of which none lasted more than a week. The agency has no perception of what we require as they have absolutely no IT skills whatsoever. The last candidate was asked some questions on UNIX, he asked the Consultant if she knew what Unix was and she replied NO!!!.

Still have those slots? Where is it based?

SAP by any chance?

Nope

[rabbithole]

Still have those slots? Where is it based?

Nope

In reply to the OP: Film

More worried about the writers strike than anything else at the moment, that could get me before the recession does!

[neverdespairgirl]

I'm a barrister, mostly immigration, some crime.

[Mr Yogi]

I am a Civil Engineer

I used to be a civil engineer.

AND NOW I'M A RUDE ONE!!

[Mr Yogi]

Actually, I'm a self-employed carpenter and cabinetmaker.

Most of my clients tend to be affluant middle-aged professionals so I don't have too many worries about a recession. I'm normally booked up six months ahead and charge £250 a day.

I currently make bespoke heirlooms of the future in fine hardwoods. If needs must I could knock out chipboard coffins!

My overheads are low and we've a tiny mortgage. I don't think there's any such thing as 'recession-proof' but I reckon I'm pretty close.