Wilmslow/cheshire

[Nomadd]

and neither are you

your observations that prices have doubled in the last 10 years and that developers are finding it a 'waste of effort' applies anywhere in the uk - the city centre market has collapsed like everywhere else - but grimy deansgate is a long way from the tree lined avenues of north cheshire

south manchester prices started from a higher base and have risen proportionately to other areas of the north west (£300k for a terrace in prestwich dont sound like a bargain to me )

those who have half an acre in wilmslow and prestbury do not earn 'manchester wages' - they have their own businesses or are at the top of their game in medicine, law and finance (london does not have a monopoly on hospitals or law and accoutancy firms)

enjoy your london bedsit (oh and your london wage )

Well, I hope you all the best in your future as an EA.

And in reply to "enjoy your london bedsit (oh and your london wage ", well... The bedsit is a nice 3 bed semi in a decent area at a VERY attractive price - cheaper than I could rent in the NW at present; and the "wage" is actaully a new contract with a Bank in Docklands (£675 / day)...and I've been MD of my own company for the last 18.5 years, and doing very nicely thank you. You, on the other hand, just sound bitter.

So, just carry on dreaming that South Manchester/Cheshire are enveloped in "magic pixie dust" and therefore their absurd increase in house prices is somehow "immune" from the coming falls. What a joke - oh, and the Rightmove/PropertySnake stats prove that. See you in a couple of years after even more substantial falls. :-)

Nomadd

[Papitogrande]

Well, I hope you all the best in your future as an EA.

And in reply to "enjoy your london bedsit (oh and your london wage ", well... The bedsit is a nice 3 bed semi in a decent area at a VERY attractive price - cheaper than I could rent in the NW at present; and the "wage" is actaully a new contract with a Bank in Docklands (£675 / day)...and I've been MD of my own company for the last 18.5 years, and doing very nicely thank you. You, on the other hand, just sound bitter.

Nomadd

Do you know how that makes you sound? I wouldn't dream of telling people my earnings and status because it's just incredibly crass. No doubt you will assume this is because I earn very little, which you are quite welcome to do.

[Nomadd]

Do you know how that makes you sound? I wouldn't dream of telling people my earnings and status because it's just incredibly crass. No doubt you will assume this is because I earn very little, which you are quite welcome to do.

Do you know how *your post* makes you sound? Especially when I was replying directly to a comment thrown at me, whilst you were just jumping in for the sake of it - with absolutely nothing to add.

Really, how childish do you think "No doubt you will assume this is because I earn very little, which you are quite welcome to do" sounds? It sounds, er, "crass".

Please, give your parents their Internet connection back and return to your schoolwork.

Nomadd

[Rachman]

those who have half an acre in wilmslow and prestbury do not earn 'manchester wages' - they have their own businesses or are at the top of their game in medicine, law and finance (london does not have a monopoly on hospitals or law and accoutancy firms)

the problem is that even those on their way up can't afford it - the average junior partner at a Manchester law/;accountancy or similar firm is on under £80K and even at the big firms it's in the low £100Ks. You ain't buying half an acre of Wilmslow or Prestbury for that.

I left Manchester (from one of those jobs) for precisely that reason (as a junior). The money is at least triple in London (for 50% more work). The wages in Manchester are rubbish - they won't buy you a good house in Altrincham, let alone Hale or Bowdon - and the numbers earning £300K plus to buy these places are tiny (and they were already there in 2000).

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Bringing things back on track, where do you suggest the best place to live (south of manchester) where you will be able to get a nice family house for £100K cash in 5 years time?

[Nomadd]

the problem is that even those on their way up can't afford it - the average junior partner at a Manchester law/;accountancy or similar firm is on under £80K and even at the big firms it's in the low £100Ks. You ain't buying half an acre of Wilmslow or Prestbury for that.

I left Manchester (from one of those jobs) for precisely that reason (as a junior). The money is at least triple in London (for 50% more work). The wages in Manchester are rubbish - they won't buy you a good house in Altrincham, let alone Hale or Bowdon - and the numbers earning £300K plus to buy these places are tiny (and they were already there in 2000).

Thank you. At last, a man talking sense in this thread.

I did exactly the same as you - I left as I could earn substantially more money elsewhere.

I just can't understand the muppets on this thread - some of whom claim to have known the area for "50 years" - who seem to think it's immune to price falls. Yes, Hale/Prestbury/Bowden/etc. are very nice and are never going to be "cheap", but what what these posters seem to forget is that rich people STAY rich by not paying over the odds. And at the moment, that's resulting in properties staying stuck on the market for exceptionally long spans of time. Those with £500,000-£4,000,000 to spend aren't daft enough to throw it away on an overpriced property that will have dropped in value in the next few years. Remember, 30% of £4 million is still a big number. :-)

Cheers,

Nomadd

[Nomadd]

Bringing things back on track, where do you suggest the best place to live (south of manchester) where you will be able to get a nice family house for £100K cash in 5 years time?

Well, assuming you are serious, I don't think £100k is going to cut it - and certainly not in the areas mentioned in this thread!

If you want to be close to the city centre, but still far enough away to forget about it, then Altrincham, Timperley, Sale, Brooklands or similar are decent enough. Either that, or go MUCH further out and live with the commute (better still, find a job outside of Manchester.)

Nomadd

[Rachman]

Bringing things back on track, where do you suggest the best place to live (south of manchester) where you will be able to get a nice family house for £100K cash in 5 years time?

Ther won't be any. Those days HAVE gone. Even if we see falls, a family house in an area where your kids won't be being squired at 12 years old and where they won't learn a poor attempt at Jamaican street patois is going to be more than £100K - it was even before prices rose.

We'll he heading north in about 5 years. I am expecting to be paying 10 times that for a nice family house in the good parts of Hale, Bowdon Wilmslow etc.

Edited January 11, 2008 by Rachman

[Nomadd]

We'll he heading north in about 5 years. I am expecting to be paying 10 times that for a nice family house in the good parts of Hale, Bowdon Wilmslow etc.

Exactly the same position as me. Still, at lest that'll be £300,000-£500,000 LESS than you'd be paying now. :-)

Nomadd

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

To Nomadd & Rachman,

I was serious (its not my money), I wasn't expecting Wilmslow and all of S Cheshire to fall to £100K but auction/in need of modernisation sales in some of the other areas mentioned may become comparatively cheap for a cash buyer. I was only looking at 3-4 bedroom houses with a parking space and a garden - not to be in the next edition of "Cribs". In 5 years, there may even be a little more cash to play with.

I currently live near MCR city centre and work in Warrington but the S. MCR area is good for me for other reasons. I'm an engineer, my job only creates wealth, it doesn't magically magnify it so I'm not on a mega-bucks like you guys

[Nomadd]

To Nomadd & Rachman,

I was serious (its not my money), I wasn't expecting Wilmslow and all of S Cheshire to fall to £100K but auction/in need of modernisation sales in some of the other areas mentioned may become comparatively cheap for a cash buyer. I was only looking at 3-4 bedroom houses with a parking space and a garden - not to be in the next edition of "Cribs". In 5 years, there may even be a little more cash to play with.

I currently live near MCR city centre and work in Warrington but the S. MCR area is good for me for other reasons. I'm an engineer, my job only creates wealth, it doesn't magically magnify it so I'm not on a mega-bucks like you guys

I had a look at some cheaper stuff - all comparative here - for a friend just before Xmas. He wanted something pretty much complete to walk into. I was quite surprised at what he'd get for £200k in and around Sale/Timperley. They are pretty nice areas - although you have to be careful exactly where you choose - but £200k or just over would certainly get you a nice 3 bed semi with offstreet parking.

I don't see any reason why over the next few years you couldn't pick up something nice in the £150k-160k bracket at auction that needed a bit of work on it. It's just your figure of £100k was pushing it. The house next door to the one I used to live in 40 years ago recently sold for £130k, and that was ex-council, in a not too great an area, and with no offstreet parking. I and my folks thought the people who bought it must have been insane! Those places will almost certainly fall to less than £100k over the next few years, but you still wouldn't want to live there!

Get saving those pennies, and I'm sure something nice awaits you in a few years time.

Nomadd

Ps. I'm an engineer by trade, but left that life behind me when all our manufacturing left these shores 25 years ago. Mind you, I'm now in I.T., and that seems to be going the same route. Time for a change of career again! Thank god I don't have any debts - especially a huge mortgage around my neck. :-)

[Rachman]

Even if it's a fixer upper (to use US vernacular), it's still going to be well over a ton (to get back to English) for anything anywhere you want to be. I looked at a couple to do up in Altrincham to do up - they were basket cases (needed £50K-70K on them) to be good houses - your standard 3bed 1930s semis - properly built and extendable at the side over the garage if you wanted. Proper houses.

They made no sense - BUT, even going back and looking at 2001 sale prices - which we won't get back to, then they were £150K-200K then. If you are heading out and you are happy to compromise on schools, main roads etc. I think you may be successful but it's just not going to be pick up a family house for £100K (my first house was £141K in early 2000 - and that was in Bolton - it was 'just' a 3 bed semi that was 'tired' - that is now '£350k') - that;s not going to drop back nearly 75%. It may go back to £250K in a worst case, but not lower than that (in my view) before the speculators are back in).

If I looked more Heaton Mersey and towards Stockport or towards Urmston et al, I can see that being feasible, but south Manchester and the better areas, whilst I wish you luck, I think you'll be fortunate (just don't buy ex-council - you WILL regret it in a down market (generally)).

[For every strapped seller, there are also several people with money to 'invest'/throw away..... once the price is right, so come on down]

[19 year mortgage 8itch]

Bugger, will still need a mortgage anywhere decent

[R K]

I just can't understand the muppets on this thread - some of whom claim to have known the area for "50 years" - who seem to think it's immune to price falls. Yes, Hale/Prestbury/Bowden/etc. are very nice and are never going to be "cheap", but what what these posters seem to forget is that rich people STAY rich by not paying over the odds. And at the moment, that's resulting in properties staying stuck on the market for exceptionally long spans of time. Those with £500,000-£4,000,000 to spend aren't daft enough to throw it away on an overpriced property that will have dropped in value in the next few years. Remember, 30% of £4 million is still a big number. :-)

Cheers,

Nomadd

Since you appear to be calling me a muppet I shall reply (although forgive me if I don't stoop to your level of personal abuse):-

Please quote my post where I have said this area is immune to price falls?

I could give you the addresses of perhaps a dozen houses on 3 roads that have sold within a few weeks of being marketed for around £1m, been demolished and now have foundations in. So apparently those with that money to spend ARE daft enough to throw it away on over-priced property that will have dropped in value in the next few years. Whodda thunk it huh?

But by all means come back in 5 years with your money earned in London and snap up a bargain.....But don't hold your breath....Oh and watch out for those cost-cutting banks looking to save on their £675 a day IT contractors (Personally I wouldn't pay an IT contractor £675 a day who can't even read what is written in front of them and resorts to personal insults, and I've employed quite a few, but hey, I'm old-fashioned like that) ....I believe even MDs of their own companies might not be immune

Edited January 11, 2008 by Red Kharma

[Bootsox]

Actually I am not quite sure how we got talking about the "upper end" of property prices when the original and a subsequent poster seemed to be interested in the low(ish) 100ks.

Anyhow, I supect at the "upper end" there may be significant reliance on family wealth not just wage earning. Otherwise the sums do not really add up.

Sox

[R K]

Couldn't agree more. Just finished a contract in Knutsford and couldn't believe how stupidly overpriced a whole section of South Manchester had become. I'm now back in London, as that's where the money is to be made (and I'm renting cheaply, of course.)

Local wages in Manchester are even more out of step with local house prices than they are in London. And Man U. doesn't have 500,000 players on it's payroll, as some people seem to think.

Most of the stuff I've watched on Rightmove for the last year in the South of Manchester has hardly moved, most of it having being stuck on the market for over a year. This area is in for a large downfall IMHO over the next few years. I'm just gonna keep saving my pennies here in London until those falls bite.

Nomadd

and from Papitogrande.....

I wondered what your thoughts were on al the development that is/has been going on in Alderley, Prestbury etc. It seems to have been the fashion lately to buy up oldish houses for a million quid or so then knock them down and build a new 6 bed mock-mansion. Personally I think they look awful but they're priced around the £3m mark. IMO these things will tank.

[Nomadd]

I could give you the addresses of perhaps a dozen houses on 3 roads that have sold within a few weeks of being marketed for around £1m, been demolished and now have foundations in. So apparently those with that money to spend ARE daft enough to throw it away on over-priced property that will have dropped in value in the next few years. Whodda thunk it huh?

Amazing how you can ignore the stuff that I posted that was contrary to all that. And that was from Rightmove, PropertySnake and a property developer who's been working the area for 15 years! i.e. not just comments pulled out of my backside like yours...

And who'da thought someone would start a web site/forum called www.housepriceCRASH.co.uk. You know, a place for people who think house prices are overvalued. And "whodda thunk" that it would attract some people - like you - who wish to defend insane houseprices at any cost, particularly those in their neck of the woods? ...Must be a real slow day in your Estate Agency.

Still, thanks for your valuable insight: prices NEVER fall. And South Manchester/Cheshire are ALWAYS a good buy. Cause you said so. That's all I needed to know. Thank god there was a smart chap like you around to teach me the error of my ways. I'll inform the web master of this site to take it down immediately, or at least tell people to stop talking about price falls in YOUR area.

But by all means come back in 5 years with your money earned in London and snap up a bargain.....

Oh, I will. :-)

And thanks for the tip Mr E.A. Seems you are finally coming around to my way of thinking. :-)

Nomadd

[R K]

Amazing how you can ignore the stuff that I posted that was contrary to all that. And that was from Rightmove, PropertySnake and a property developer who's been working the area for 15 years! i.e. not just comments pulled out of my backside like yours...

And who'da thought someone would start a web site/forum called www.housepriceCRASH.co.uk. You know, a place for people who think house prices are overvalued. And "whodda thunk" that it would attract some people - like you - who wish to defend insane houseprices at any cost, particularly those in their neck of the woods? ...Must be a real slow day in your Estate Agency.

Still, thanks for your valuable insight: prices NEVER fall. And South Manchester/Cheshire are ALWAYS a good buy. Cause you said so. That's all I needed to know. Thank god there was a smart chap like you around to teach me the error of my ways. I'll inform the web master of this site to take it down immediately, or at least tell people to stop talking about price falls in YOUR area.

I haven't ignored you stuff. You didn't provide any links so I'm none the wiser. You just quoted some numbers. I provided links.

If you could be bothered reading what is written rather than what you think has been written, you would see that I have said that I would expect prices to fall. Indeed I am hoping they do, which is precisely why I am renting here at the moment. But please feel free to post my quote where I said prices in South Manchester/Cheshire never fall. I never mentioned South Manchester/Cheshire anywhere in any of my posts. You did. I mentioned Bowdon/Hale/Alderley Edge.

I am not an Estate Agent, nor have any VI in that industry. You seem to have gone off half-**** all the way through your aggressive and frankly rather unpleasant posts.

But please, I challenge you to quote back to me what you have said I have said. I have repeated your quotes back to you, but you seem unable to do the same to me. Perhaps because you're making them up?

Flaming me is just a bit immature don't you think? Not really worthy of someone who is an MD of their own company and earns £675 a day is it? You could almost afford a house in Hale on that sort of money even without a crash, so I'm not sure why you're so het up in the first place. When you've calmed down a bit, see if you can't have a go at a more measured post.

Edited January 12, 2008 by Red Kharma

[R K]

FAO NOMADD

Here was my actual post with the relevant bits emboldened. As you can see it doesn't bear much resemblance to your attack flaming me as an estate agent, or saying that Manchester/Cheshire will NEVER fall. But we wouldn't want whatever is going on in your pre-frontal lobes to interfere too much with what you think is going on in there now would we. £675 a day? You're having a laugh.

Hi Papitogrande, I've owned and rented and brought up children in and around that area and know it very well. It appears you know it well too.

As with most areas it is a very mixed bag, with bought for cash footballer/new money new-build "mansions" at the top end and ex council owned semis at the other and everything in between.

To the extent that the vast majority of home prices will be supported by over-geared mortgages they will follow the rest of the country if there is an HPC. They did in 91-95 and they will now. In nominal terms my average 3bed semi fell from around 85k at the peak in '89 to around £65k when we traded up in '96. That was Bramhall.

Having said that the better areas will also tend to be where people want to live and so will imo not fall as far or as fast as the more vulnerable less affluent areas. As an example, Hale and Bowdon for instance has accelerated during the last 10/15 years faster than Bramhall. Everything is relative.

I am renting in these areas and have been for the last 3 years. I see nothing to warrant buying, from a financial view, for a long time yet. My rent is the equivalent of less than 3% of purchase price when you factor in maintenance charges and free water. So until rents have at least doubled or prices have halved or a combination thereof, renting is an absolute no-brainer, kids or no kids.

p.s. that house depicted as you know is on a fairly grim "commuter" estate with no local community within walking distance to speak of. If I were buying when the market looks to be bottoming out I would focus on those areas where you don't rely on a car, and have good local schools within walking distance for you kids to get to school. That estate above would be ghastly for that. This would include: Bramhall, Cheadle Hulme some parts of Macclefield some parts of Knutsford, some parts of central Wilmslow, Hale or Bowdon. If you cannot afford those areas then I would steer clear of South Manchester altogether. Today you could get a much nicer house, in a much better area 10 minutes walk from the centre of Bramhall for instance than that one pictured for £250-300k. I have been watching several excellent houses which have been on the market for over 12 months with only tiny price drops, which I believe are set to fall much further over the next 18 months or so. Keep saving, be patient.

Edited January 12, 2008 by Red Kharma

[I'M WITH STUPID]

Well, I hope you all the best in your future as an EA.

I aint no estate agent neither am I insecure enough to start ranting about how much I earn - I browse the FT for fianance jobs occassionally and am never impressed by the salaries offered down there - the only advantage of London is there are more jobs not necessarily better paid.

I'm sure for the very top money London is the place to be not just in the uk but globally - but there are plenty of well paid professional jobs in the north west and plenty of successful businesses

your illusion that we're all morgaged to the hilt in a bid to live some OC lifestyle is just plain wishful thinking

enjoy your 3 bed semi (and your london wage )

[Rachman]

But by all means come back in 5 years with your money earned in London and snap up a bargain.....

The thing is, good London/Surrey will be as resilient (or not) as these parts of Cheshire - simialr demographics and economic split between workers and old money.

The difference is that I can earn it down here - so you take the money and have a hope of buying mortgage free when you come back - we tend to take Norman Tebbitt's advice - we got on our bikes.

[Nomadd]

The thing is, good London/Surrey will be as resilient (or not) as these parts of Cheshire - simialr demographics and economic split between workers and old money.

The difference is that I can earn it down here - so you take the money and have a hope of buying mortgage free when you come back - we tend to take Norman Tebbitt's advice - we got on our bikes.

Exactly. And for those of us in specific industries, the earnings available in London - as you've already pointed out - are three/four times what can be earned in the North West. Especially if you work for yourself (which I've be doing for 18 years.)

Of course, the main thing to do is keep your ties to London "light". I don't have a mortgage, I just rent, and even that gets pushed through my company as a business expense; one single days earnings more than covers my rent for the month, so the rest of the month is pure profit. That £1 million house in Hale/Bowden is already 80% paid for; the rest will take me just two more years. I can tell from your postings that you are in an almost similar position - because you "got on your bike" and made the most of your life. Unlike the whining, lazy, jealous types on this thread who can only *dream* and make daft comments like "I'm a hiring manager and I'd never hire you!" I'm still having a good laugh at that one! :-)

I wish you all the best, my friend. YOU deserve it.

Nomadd

[Papitogrande]

Exactly. And for those of us in specific industries, the earnings available in London - as you've already pointed out - are three/four times what can be earned in the North West. Especially if you work for yourself (which I've be doing for 18 years.)

Of course, the main thing to do is keep your ties to London "light". I don't have a mortgage, I just rent, and even that gets pushed through my company as a business expense; one single days earnings more than covers my rent for the month, so the rest of the month is pure profit. That £1 million house in Hale/Bowden is already 80% paid for; the rest will take me just two more years. I can tell from your postings that you are in an almost similar position - because you "got on your bike" and made the most of your life. Unlike the whining, lazy, jealous types on this thread who can only *dream* and make daft comments like "I'm a hiring manager and I'd never hire you!" I'm still having a good laugh at that one! :-)

I wish you all the best, my friend. YOU deserve it.

Nomadd

One single day more than pays for your rent? You sir are a genius. Until late 2006 I had lived in London for almost 5 years and my rent was more than that a week, this for a 2 bed flat. You however get a nice 3 bed semi in a good area for less than £675 per month, which you manage to lower with a bit of a tax fiddle (not a criticism I do the same).

The only way I could think it is possible to live in a 3 bed semi, in a nice area of London, for less than £675 is in a houseshare. I suppose this would be highly unlikely though for a high flying MD (contractor) with £800k in the bank.

[R K]

Exactly. And for those of us in specific industries, the earnings available in London - as you've already pointed out - are three/four times what can be earned in the North West. Especially if you work for yourself (which I've be doing for 18 years.)

Of course, the main thing to do is keep your ties to London "light". I don't have a mortgage, I just rent, and even that gets pushed through my company as a business expense; one single days earnings more than covers my rent for the month, so the rest of the month is pure profit. That £1 million house in Hale/Bowden is already 80% paid for; the rest will take me just two more years. I can tell from your postings that you are in an almost similar position - because you "got on your bike" and made the most of your life. Unlike the whining, lazy, jealous types on this thread who can only *dream* and make daft comments like "I'm a hiring manager and I'd never hire you!" I'm still having a good laugh at that one! :-)

I wish you all the best, my friend. YOU deserve it.

Nomadd

So Radbroke Hall or wherever are paying your 1 man business £675 a day, and now you are earning 3/4 times that in London?....that's feally funny.....

£800,000 in the bank and you still don't know your posterior from your elbow....Do you have your bank balance printed on a Tshirt for when you try and pick up women in the Knutsford Wine Bar? Or do you let your Range Rover Sport HSE do your talking for you?

PM me your CV if your bank let's you go early, and I'll see what I can do for you

Your apology for totally misrepresenting what I said above is graciously received, although I would recommend that you get your little company to send you on a listening and speed reading self-development course. (You can charge it to expenses like your little semi-detached London property).

Edited January 12, 2008 by Red Kharma

[Nomadd]

One single day more than pays for your rent? You sir are a genius. Until late 2006 I had lived in London for almost 5 years and my rent was more than that a week, this for a 2 bed flat. You however get a nice 3 bed semi in a good area for less than £675 per month, which you manage to lower with a bit of a tax fiddle (not a criticism I do the same).

The only way I could think it is possible to live in a 3 bed semi, in a nice area of London, for less than £675 is in a houseshare. I suppose this would be highly unlikely though for a high flying MD (contractor) with £800k in the bank.

Well, your post appears reasonable, so I'll give it a reasonable response.

My rental is actually £650 a month. And yes, it is a nice 3 bed semi in a VERY nice area. That rent is less than half the going rate around here - I know as I got new neighbours next door about 9 months ago. The deal is simply that I've known the landlord for 10 years or more; he'd bought the house for himself, but his father died and he went to live back with his mother. As I've taken the house on a long-term rental, and I do bits of work on it and the garden, he's never increased the rent. So yes, it's a very good deal, which is why I still keep the house on even when I'm working away (i.e. I'd never want to lose it at this rental price.)

Nomadd