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http://www.reuters.co.uk/financeArticle.jh...&storyID=679972

Great bear article but I'm reading more and more VI's stating SIPP's will be a major stimulus to the market.

Now I don't want to go over all the SIPPs ground again, its been covered on the forum in detail before. I also believe our own experts (Dr Bubb, zzg et al) that the impact will be minimal.

However I am concerned that as with most propaganda it fools the masses. We all agree sentiment is a major factor in the market and if people think in April 2006 it will all ramp up again this could support a longer period of denial and stagnation which is good for no-one.

What can we do to counter this, if anything, and are other people concerned also?

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By 2006 the mania should have subsided (most BTLers are already holding off buying further properties whilst they wait and see what's happening to the market).

I reckon when people realise they're going to have to stump up a huge Capital Gains Tax bill in order to put their property portfolios into a SIPP, they'll soon lose interest in them.

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I reckon when people realise they're going to have to stump up a huge Capital Gains Tax bill in order to put their property portfolios into a SIPP, they'll soon lose interest in them.

Nahhh, I'd rather buy a new property (as in new to my portfolio) at effectively 40% discount. (aka tax relief)

People who use these SIPPS will create their own personal HPC, while all you Procrastinators watch the revival in 'bottom rung' properties.

KOTC.

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Nahhh, I'd rather buy a new property (as in new to my portfolio) at effectively 40% discount. (aka tax relief)

    People who use these SIPPS will create their own personal HPC, while all you Procrastinators watch the revival in 'bottom rung' properties.

KOTC.

eh? I've tried reading that second paragraph upside down and back to front and it still makes no sense....

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eh? I've tried reading that second paragraph upside down and back to front and it still makes no sense....

Well if you went and bought a property outside of a SIPP you would have to buy it with post- tax income. So if you're a 40% taxpayer to buy a £60k property you would need to earn £100k (ignoring NI) Whereas with the money built up in a SIPP the same money built up within the fund would allow you to buy a property to thevalue of £100k. (as the money within the fund would be remain as gross effectively)

So as I said you'd be legally buying property at 40% discount with your SIPP fund, as opposed to using your harder earned (and tax paid) money outside of the fund..........your own personal HPC! (40% off in nominal terms)

KOTC.

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Well if you went and bought a property outside of a SIPP you would have to buy it with post- tax income. So if you're a 40% taxpayer to buy a £60k property you would need to earn £100k  (ignoring NI) Whereas with the money built up in a SIPP the same money built up within the fund would allow you to buy a property for £100k. (as the money within the fund would be remain as gross effectively)

    So as I said you'd be legally buying property at 40% discount with your SIPP fund, as opposed to using your harder earned (and tax paid) money outside of the fund..........your own personal HPC! (40% off in nominal terms)

     

KOTC.

Well it certainly sounds a good idea once house prices have fallen 40% anyway, then I'll be getting what now costs 100p in the pound for 36p in the pound (100 less 40% less 40%). :D

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Well it certainly sounds a good idea once house prices have fallen 40% anyway, then I'll be getting what now costs 100p in the pound for 36p in the pound (100 less 40% less 40%). Sounds good to me!

Sounds good to me regardless of what the market does in the interim period. In fact it is an incredible opportunity. I don't class myself as a schmuck (no comments please) so expect others to thinking along the same lines.

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Well if you went and bought a property outside of a SIPP you would have to buy it with post- tax income. So if you're a 40% taxpayer to buy a £60k property you would need to earn £100k  (ignoring NI) Whereas with the money built up in a SIPP the same money built up within the fund would allow you to buy a property to thevalue of £100k. (as the money within the fund would be remain as gross effectively)

    So as I said you'd be legally buying property at 40% discount with your SIPP fund, as opposed to using your harder earned (and tax paid) money outside of the fund..........your own personal HPC! (40% off in nominal terms)

     

KOTC.

I seriously don't believe the government can afford to do this on any kind of scale. If you're correct (and I don't know whether you are or not) this could lose the treasury a huge amount in tax revenues. Are you sure???

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I seriously don't believe the government can afford to do this on any kind of scale. If you're correct (and I don't know whether you are or not) this could lose the treasury a huge amount in tax revenues. Are you sure???

100% .

The money must be within a SIPP though.

There are restictions on how much you can put in P.A , and quite frankly they are huge, for a 40% tax payer you can put a years salary in per year!

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100% .

    The money must be within a SIPP though.

    There are restictions on how much you can put in P.A , and quite frankly they are huge, for a 40% tax payer you can put a years salary in per year!

Just read the link on your signature! For some parts of London he wasn't far wrong! For the rest of the UK, he was hust a bit ahead of himself by about 2.5 years, IMO

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Just read the link on your signature! For some parts of London he wasn't far wrong! For the rest of the UK, he was hust a bit ahead of himself by about 2.5 years, IMO

You may have seen the last Trev Mcdonald programme, he (OSWALD) advised a couple in 2002 not to buy a certain house on national TV, he advised them to rent it out, today, on a follow up interview the property is valued at £100k more!

I can't recall the exact location, but it was in the south. Quite a public fook up IMO.

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100% .

    The money must be within a SIPP though.

    There are restictions on how much you can put in P.A , and quite frankly they are huge, for a 40% tax payer you can put a years salary in per year!

But you'll be taxed in the end though , minus the current 25% lump .

Got to do some serious research on drawdown over the next few years , better build my house first though.

Dames :blink:

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I've actually been looking into SIPPs recently, admittedly with a view more to equities investment than propoerty. I haven't seen any low-cost SIPP provider geared up for residential property investment. That might change, but it doesn't look good for SIPP-fuelled property boom at the moment.

Feel free to post details of any property-orientated low-cost SIPP providers and I might reconsider.

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I've actually been looking into SIPPs recently, admittedly with a view more to equities investment than propoerty. I haven't seen any low-cost SIPP provider geared up for residential property investment. That might change, but it doesn't look good for SIPP-fuelled property boom at the moment.

Feel free to post details of any property-orientated low-cost SIPP providers and I might reconsider.

There are also two other points to consider - apart from capital gains over time, if you want a yearly return from your property you will have to rent it out. The market is suffering from oversupply in many areas, plus the govt also recently said they wanted to raise home ownership to 80% of the population. That's going to have an impact on the number of people wanting to rent - it's all a big unknown. If house prices are going down or are stagnating, will prroperty look that attractivee, anyway - better to keep your SIPPS cash ffor a year or two and get the same property cheaper?? But I do agree with the fact that the govt will do anything to keep tthe housing market stable, even to the tune of stumping up 40% of the cash AND shoving a bung to FTBs.

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http://www.reuters.co.uk/financeArticle.jh...&storyID=679972

Great bear article but I'm reading more and more VI's stating SIPP's will be a major stimulus to the market.

Now I don't want to go over all the SIPPs ground again, its been covered on the forum in detail before. I also believe our own experts (Dr Bubb, zzg et al) that the impact will be minimal.

However I am concerned that as with most propaganda it fools the masses. We all agree sentiment is a major factor in the market and if people think in April 2006 it will all ramp up again this could support a longer period of denial and stagnation which is good for no-one.

What can we do to counter this, if anything, and are other people concerned also?

Well, regardless of the blind spot HPC has on this subject I reckon (I hate to say) that the SIPP rules will be a massive boost to the market and KOTC (may he end up on the streets for being a smug arrogant....****) is right about it.

Loads of people have pension funds capable of purchasing at 50% gearing. Every commentator, even those who criticise the new property SIPP rules, reckon it is going to drive the market, and that has to be bad for (our) sentiment.

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KOTC is right. he WILL make on this and i hthink it WILL hold the market up for yet another f*cking year. this governments about to couple pensions with housing. like mixing polystyrene with diesel. this new labour government just gets better and better.

i see governments dumping every single responsibility they can.

taxes are about to the limit thats reasonable.

wheres the exchange here between government and people.

if everythings PFI'd then can we have our taxes back.

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KOTC is right. he WILL make on this and i hthink it WILL hold the market up for yet another f*cking year.  this governments about to couple pensions with housing. like mixing polystyrene with diesel. this new labour government just gets better and better.

Yes, you can smell the greed, but if it does hold the market up or inflate the housing bubble further, it makes no difference to the eventual outcome. Ultimately, the writing is on the wall for the UK housing market, it's just a question of time. And if SIPP's did push prices up further, coupled with the prospect of inflation in the wider economy, just watch those interest rates. Writing on the wall. When you think about it, SIPP'S could be what finally pushes the market over, after an initial bull run brought on by VI's pushing them as the answer to everyone's pension problems.

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I've actually been looking into SIPPs recently, admittedly with a view more to equities investment than propoerty. I haven't seen any low-cost SIPP provider geared up for residential property investment. That might change, but it doesn't look good for SIPP-fuelled property boom at the moment.

Feel free to post details of any property-orientated low-cost SIPP providers and I might reconsider.

can't think there are any. I hear thats whats being excluded from the low cost SIPPS - probably too much hassle or admin.

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I wasn't aware they'd said that, although I've said many times on this forum that no government will want to preside over falling levels of owner occupation, since it is a traditional measure of prosperity.

Whenever bulls on this forum talk about a new paradigm (Dogbox talks about a return to Victorian levels of tenancy) I counter with this point, but I never get a reasoned response.

This is a big issue I think. If the government want increasing levels of OO they are bound to start penalising BTL, IMO.

What are your views on this?

You are right, it is a big issue, but the problem for NuLabour, Tories and now the Lib Dems, is that they approach the problem from defending the status quo, the bubble. Their schemes are mostly based on shared ownership 50:50, 40:60, I've read about 25:75, the 75% being the rented part. Of course, they have to do this because so many votes are dependent on home owners and you can bet your house (if you are fortunate enough to own one) that many of those home owners will blame the Government if and when prices start to fall.

So, there are two problems. 1) No government will want to preside over falling levels of owner occupation and 2) No Government wants to preside over falling house prices. The trouble is that the bubble that has been created achieves point 2, while making point 1, falling levels of owner occupation, a certainty. Catch 22 really.

I'm not convinced that the next Government will penalise BTL though. There again, old Prudence has got to get his stealth taxes from somewhere? :lol:

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You are right, it is a big issue, but the problem for NuLabour, Tories and now the Lib Dems, is that they approach the problem from defending the status quo, the bubble.  Their schemes are mostly based on shared ownership 50:50, 40:60, I've read about 25:75, the 75% being the rented part.  Of course, they have to do this because so many votes are dependent on home owners and you can bet your house (if you are fortunate enough to own one) that many of those home owners will blame the Government if and when prices start to fall.

So, there are two problems.  1) No government will want to preside over falling levels of owner occupation and 2)  No Government wants to preside over falling house prices.  The trouble is that the bubble that has been created achieves point 2, while making point 1, falling levels of owner occupation, a certainty.  Catch 22 really.

I'm not convinced that the next Government will penalise BTL though.  There again, old Prudence has got to get his stealth taxes from somewhere? :lol:

But at the very least I would expect them to review the SIPPS thing

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  • 441 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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