Chaos Just Broken Out Over Immigration Data

[Realistbear]

Been trying to find some Polish sherry for Christmas--no one seems to stock it?

In the meantime:

http://comment.independent.co.uk/commentat...icle3127342.ece

John Rentoul: 'British jobs' blows up in the PM's face

Gordon Brown's disastrous mistake in using the language of the BNP on immigration is a gift to the Tories

Published: 04 November 2007

British jobs for British workers: funny how few people said so at the time, but it was a disastrous thing for Gordon Brown to say. Where did it come from? Why did he say it? Trying to get to the bottom of the immigration and labour market statistics has been relatively simple compared with tracing the origin of this alien phrase and how it was granted indefinite leave to remain in the Prime Minister's record.

This could be the end now. No, just a minute I need to take wee. That's better, the end is near now.

[sunonmars]

rubbish. try living in asia or many other places. you can't own land or property, have to show money in the bank to be able to stay there, can't own businesses, can't do any job a local can do, can't have citizenships, dual pricing where you have to pay more than locals for things, have to put up with 'No Foreigner' signs.

i could go on.

Correct, lots of countries make it very difficult for us to go there and they only do because they want the right sort of migrant, there is nothing wrong with that. I pay a fortune and spend a lot of time every year proving I am not a burden on the country before i get my permit renewed. I'm grateful because i know they don't let the wrong sort in.

Edited November 4, 2007 by sunonmars

[NextBigThing]

Correct, lots of countries make it very difficult for us to go there and they only do because they want the right sort of migrant, there is nothing wrong with that. I pay a fortune and spend a lot of time every year proving I am not a burden on the country before i get my permit renewed. I'm grateful because i know they don't let the wrong sort in.

Yes and I do the same here yet get pilloried in the press and have people ask me why I'm here. so what's the difference??!

[Guest d23]

Correct, lots of countries make it very difficult for us to go there and they only do because they want the right sort of migrant, there is nothing wrong with that. I pay a fortune and spend a lot of time every year proving I am not a burden on the country before i get my permit renewed. I'm grateful because i know they don't let the wrong sort in.

whereabouts are you based?

[dubsie]

Correct, lots of countries make it very difficult for us to go there and they only do because they want the right sort of migrant, there is nothing wrong with that. I pay a fortune and spend a lot of time every year proving I am not a burden on the country before i get my permit renewed. I'm grateful because i know they don't let the wrong sort in.

Which is how it should be, no one is entitled to go and live anywhere they want anymore so why is our government so weak. I'm sure if Australia did the same it would be flooded.

[NextBigThing]

rubbish. try living in asia or many other places. you can't own land or property, have to show money in the bank to be able to stay there, can't own businesses, can't do any job a local can do, can't have citizenships, dual pricing where you have to pay more than locals for things, have to put up with 'No Foreigner' signs.

i could go on.

This is very selective. i have a brother living in Asia not reporting any such problems. Anyway who mentioned Asia? I'm sure there are countries out there that will make it difficult for foreigners, but there are loads of countries that will treat you fairly well.

[Guest d23]

Which is how it should be, no one is entitled to go and live anywhere they want anymore so why is our government so weak. I'm sure if Australia did the same it would be flooded.

Australia has a very high level of immigration, not far off UK levels.

[sunonmars]

whereabouts are you based?

I live out in Turkey at present and these guys have it spot on right. You have to pay £200 a year to live here with a permit for one year. You have to provide bank statements every year to show you have enough money to support yourself. You must report to the mayors office and present yourself witihn 14 days of expiration (no exceptions, i forgot once and the cops turned up 7 days after at my door asking me renew immediately or they would be back) for approval then the customs police for interview. Furthermore after 5 years if you want to get a turkish passport you must pass a language proficiency test here. You cannot take a job here unless approved from Ankara and they are satisfied no Turk can do the job themselves. They really dont take shit. If they stop you and you dont have the correct paperwork or have a residence permit. You are gone within a day and if you are found working illegally, you are on a plane within a few hours, next plane out. Another thing, here, you dont work, you dont eat, no such thing as benefits and these guys majority earn 20 lira a day (£8).

Here in Turkey, having a residence permit is a key to everything. I cannot buy a car, get insurance, get satellite television, get a telephone line, broadband, electric or the like without a residence permit. It makes me realise that if Turkey which is way behind on the West, can do this, why the hell can't a forward thinking country like the Uk not, its baffling.

And Next Best Thing, I am talking about stopping all the benefit immigration and the uncontrolled migration, I have no problem having migrants who contribute and follow the rule of law but when you leave the gates open without restriction so any one can waltz in without forethought of the resident indiginous popultion, you really are creating a mess, but you really must close the door until you take stock of the extent of the problem and adjust accordingly.

[sunonmars]

Australia has a very high level of immigration, not far off UK levels.

Have you seen Australia's rules for immigration, far easier to navigate Mt Everest. At least they have the balls to ask the hard questions, they won't just let anyone in you know unlike some country we know.

Try getting a visa for being a tourist and having to talk to an immigration officer if you dont get an electronic visa straight away. It's painful.

[NextBigThing]

I live out in Turkey at present and these guys have it spot on right. You have to pay £200 a year to live here with a permit for one year. You have to provide bank statements every year to show you have enough money to support yourself. You must report to the mayors office and present yourself witihn 14 days of expiration (no exceptions, i forgot once and the cops turned up 7 days after at my door asking me renew immediately or they would be back) for approval then the customs police for interview. Furthermore after 5 years if you want to get a turkish passport you must pass a language proficiency test here. You cannot take a job here unless approved from Ankara and they are satisfied no Turk can do the job themselves. They really dont take shit. If they stop you and you dont have the correct paperwork or have a residence permit. You are gone within a day and if you are found working illegally, you are on a plane within a few hours, next plane out. Another thing, here, you dont work, you dont eat, no such thing as benefits and these guys majority earn 20 lira a day (£8).

Here in Turkey, having a residence permit is a key to everything. I cannot buy a car, get insurance, get satellite television, get a telephone line, broadband, electric or the like without a residence permit. It makes me realise that if Turkey which is way behind on the West, can do this, why the hell can't a forward thinking country like the Uk not, its baffling.

And Next Best Thing, I am talking about stopping all the benefit immigration and the uncontrolled migration, I have no problem having migrants who contribute and follow the rule of law but when you leave the gates open without restriction so any one can waltz in without forethought of the resident indiginous popultion, you really are creating a mess, but you really must close the door until you take stock of the extent of the problem and adjust accordingly.

Fair enough, I have no problem with controlling migration. However lots of people here are getting quite hysterical about it.

[davidhpc]

This is very selective. i have a brother living in Asia not reporting any such problems. Anyway who mentioned Asia? I'm sure there are countries out there that will make it difficult for foreigners, but there are loads of countries that will treat you fairly well.

i've lived in asia, i have experience of it first hand, that's why i mentioned it. those problems are there in some countries.

where will i be treated fairly well as an unskilled labourer?

[NextBigThing]

i've lived in asia, i have experience of it first hand, that's why i mentioned it. those problems are there in some countries.

where will i be treated fairly well as an unskilled labourer?

Again: Who mentioned unskilled labourers?

[lulu]

<a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...migrants103.xml" target="_blank">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...migrants103.xml</a>

Growing chaos over migrant workers

Last Updated: 3:07am GMT 03/11/2007

Fresh doubts over the Government's immigration figures emerged last night after new statistics showed that

almost one million

people from

outside Europe

have been given the right to work in Britain over the past three years...../

Over the same period

only 406,000 permits were issued to non-Europeans

.

Truth comes out in drips and drabs. Gordon has been caught misleading the public. Reisgnation is in order.

If this is true it is an effing disgrace.

I work my **** off, loose a fortune in tax and cannot afford somewhere to live in my own country as there is an apparent "housing shortage" yet the effing Government have some kind of open door policy all in some kind of attempt to make this country "wealthy" then they bring in new taxes as congestion etc is going up, Council tax is set to rise to help look after them all too. It is pathetic. Gordon Brown keeps banging on about "Britishness" it is about time he actually did something about it....

[davidhpc]

Again: Who mentioned unskilled labourers?

you told me I would be treated fairly well. I am an unskilled labourer, where will I be treated fairly well?

[NextBigThing]

you told me I would be treated fairly well. I am an unskilled labourer, where will I be treated fairly well?

Yes you referred to that not me. Go back in the thread, you will see my reply which you disagreed with was to Solvent Cell, who in no uncertain terms stated Britain for the British. No qualification.

[davidhpc]

Yes you referred to that not me. Go back in the thread, you will see my reply which you disagreed with was to Solvent Cell, who in no uncertain terms stated Britain for the British. No qualification.

You referred to it. You told me I would be treated fairly well. I asked you where.

"They must stay away from our country (except when we want cheap labour) but should accept us everywhere we go. Nice."

I've gone back and still state that your quote above is rubbish. We are not accepted in many places. Your statement that we should be accepted everywhere we go is rubbish.

qualified.

[MarkG]

This is very selective. i have a brother living in Asia not reporting any such problems.

I have a couple of friends in Asia who have no problems; other than, for example, not being allowed to buy property, and having to renew visas every year or so. However, one mentioned recently that the French owner of a local bar was heard making disparaging remarks about certain popular local officials and was thrown out of the country within weeks.

Their government clearly puts the interests of their people first, while allowing immigration by foreigners who will benefit their country and don't cause trouble for the locals. To me that's a sensible policy, unlike Brown's open door.

[Tommy]

your tone is very, very rude towards millions of very hardworking british people. suggesting immigrants will work harder than british people is an insult. being Polish does not make you hard-working. being british does not make you lazy. do you have some loathing or dislike of british people? is that your agenda?

unskilled british people would go work abroad in droves for £21 an hour. living ten to a house could give £400-£500 per week saved. four/five years of work and they could return and buy a modest house outright. Millions would leave tomorrow.

No, I am not rude (if anything you are rude by calling me rude).

I am not saying immigrants work harder than british people, I am saying that immigrants work harder than a small portion of english people who prefer to get benefits rather than having to work. This is very very different. I think it goes without saying that the majority of british people are very very hard-working. Read my posts better before making claims on me and my tones.

[davidhpc]

No, I am not rude (if anything you are rude by calling me rude).

I am not saying immigrants work harder than british people, I am saying that immigrants work harder than a small portion of english people who prefer to get benefits rather than having to work. This is very very different. I think it goes without saying that the majority of british people are very very hard-working. Read my posts better before making claims on me and my tones.

i have read your posts and i think they are very rude. maybe you could read them again and look how you have said that you would employ people from foreign countries before british people. things like that are thankfully illegal, i hope you are not responsible for employing people with those views.

[Wlad]

Over the same period only 406,000 permits were issued to non-Europeans.

Apparently 400,000 of the balance were already UK passport holders, though.

[Tommy]

i have read your posts and i think they are very rude. maybe you could read them again and look how you have said that you would employ people from foreign countries before british people. things like that are thankfully illegal, i hope you are not responsible for employing people with those views.

I have said I would prefer to employ a hard working polish instead of a lazy chav living off benefits. Unless all British people are chavs living off benefits, and of course they are not, I have not been rude and I have not said I prefer to employ people from foreign countries before british people.

This conversation is getting ridiculous, you are accusing me of ridiculous things and you are boring me and the rest of the people, so we should stop it.

[MarkG]

I have said I would prefer to employ a hard working polish instead of a lazy chav living off benefits.

How will they ever get off of benefits if companies ship in unskilled labourers from abroad instead of hiring them?

Perhaps I'm old-fashioned, but surely British companies in Britain adopting a 'No Britons' hiring policy is absurd?

[davidhpc]

I have said I would prefer to employ a hard working polish instead of a lazy chav living off benefits. Unless all British people are chavs living off benefits, and of course they are not, I have not been rude and I have not said I prefer to employ people from foreign countries before british people.

This conversation is getting ridiculous, you are accusing me of ridiculous things and you are boring me and the rest of the people, so we should stop it.

Here is your quote in black and white:

"Still, if I had my own company and I had the option to employ some hard working Polish people or, for the same money, some chavs I would not think twice and I would go for the foreigners."

how the hell would you know someone of any nationality was hard working before you employ them (because they are polish i suppose?) and don't add lazy and benefits in there to back-pedal and re-frame.

i think you are ridiculous and boring, i agree we should stop it.

[since the beginning]

i have read your posts and i think they are very rude. maybe you could read them again and look how you have said that you would employ people from foreign countries before british people. things like that are thankfully illegal, i hope you are not responsible for employing people with those views.

Have to agree with you on this one. The fact pointed out above is if I could go to say Croatia and earn 5 times what I could here I would work pretty damn hard and live pretty damn cheap and feel great for it. Being able to strive for something makes people work harder If I thought that if I saved £20,000 over 3 years and then I could buy a 3 bed house outright with the money then I would work all the hours god sends.

Anyway jumping to Stereotypes such as all British are lazy is very misguided and clouded thinking. The most savage and blatant Racism I have heard in this country was 4 Polish blokes on 2 black guys. But i don't jump to conclusions and conclude that all Polish people are backwards and racist.

[Solvent Celt]

Yes you referred to that not me. Go back in the thread, you will see my reply which you disagreed with was to Solvent Cell, who in no uncertain terms stated Britain for the British. No qualification.

Why is any qualification needed? We have had the current situation foisted on us. We didn't vote for it. We don't want it. Send them back.

The government told us only 15,000 eastern Europeans would come here. Even they now admit it's hundreds of thousands. But the truth is they haven't a Scoobies.

I've seen swathes of some towns transformed into mini Warsaws.

Up to 80% of all new jobs created go to foreigners whilst unemployment & incapacity rates amoungst the British have gone up.

Immigrant fuelled crime is out of control. Infectious diseases once irradicated are back. Roads are gridlocked. Queues get longer. Quality of life is going down the pan for many.

So yeah Britain for the British seems a eminently sensible policy to me.