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Chaos Just Broken Out Over Immigration Data


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Gordon now has 2 famous lines:
No more Boom and Bust
British Jobs for British Workers

We just want one more Mr. Brown:

"Och, I quit then"

You forgot

"I will not allow house prices to get out of control and put at risk the sustainability of the recovery." (1997 budget speech)

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There are loads of Indian IT workers earning 60, 70, 80K+ in London and the surrounds.

What's wrong with that? There are a lot of British People on those salaries too? Are you suggesting that only the British should be allowed earnings of 60k or above?

There are jobs in the IT sector that pay the salaries you've mentioned, ok, anyone can send a CV and apply to these jobs. The best candidate will be selected. The best candidate could well be Indian.

Maybe instead of complaining we should invest more in our careers, keep learning, keep growing, then we would be the best candidates.

Sorry, but if I apply for a 80k job and I do not get it, I do not care if an Indian got it instead, if he was British it would be the same to me. I would still have lost an opportunity. The lesson would be for me to do better in the next interview, to start taking responsibilities in my current job that can serve as experience for the new jobs I am applying to etc...

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As soon as Labour came into office in 1997, in deference to its voters of Indian and Pakistani origin, it relaxed the rules of immigration on grounds of marriage.

It passed the Human Rights Act, which gives immigrants an effective automatic right to welfare benefits and makes it much harder to deport them, even when they are criminal.

Labour then accepted asylum-seekers, self-defined, in unprecedentedly large numbers.

When the outcry against this became too great, the Government hugely increased the annual number of work permits instead. As David Cameron pointed out this week, fewer than 10 per cent of those applying for work permit extensions are refused, and grants of permanent settlement in this country have trebled since 1996.

So it would be fair to say, despite Mr Brown's recent almost BNP rhetoric about British workers, that what has happened is what the Government wanted.

You can tell this is the case, also, by the propaganda.

Our entire social, charitable, cultural and educational policy has had built into it the idea that "diversity" is "vibrant" and to be "celebrated", and that ethnic minority status takes you to the top of the queue for public money. If you want a grant, make sure that black and brown faces smile out of your literature.

Greg Dyke, the New-Labour-supporting (yes, once upon a time) Director-General of the BBC, described his corporation as "horribly white".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jh...1/03/do0302.xml

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What's wrong with that? There are a lot of British People on those salaries too? Are you suggesting that only the British should be allowed earnings of 60k or above?

People seem to think that 3rd world IT workers in the UK are on cheapo wages. I was merely pointing out this is far from the truth. These are "British" jobs that a hell of a lot of British people would give their left arms for.

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While your opinion has much merit, it has one major drawback - it is based on the current chav/NEET economic and social situation. Change this and the "not bothered" situation changes

If people were forced to do unskilled work, they would have less time to hang around McDonalds in burberry all day and work on modifying their vauxhall novas

I work in the health service, and was transferring a sick lady to intensive care last year. As we were waiting for the bed to become available, I was chatting to her husband. He was in his late sixties and had recently retired. He had worked in the mines for many years, and then as a night watchman in a warehouse. The conversation then drifted to his children and what they did.

Talk about opening a floodgate! He tore into them, calling them useless layabouts, who lived on benefits and wouldn`t do an honest days work. He feared his grandchildren were heading them same direction. I asked why this was so, (not wanting to suggest he was a crap parent) - he said when he was growing up, the only way to get ahead was to get a job. Unlike, nowadays, where you can get what you want for doing nowt

The solution is to give those who choose not to work, no choice in the matter

I totally agree with you, but you will agree with me this will take time, one thing is sending them to work by reducing benefits, another is to change their attitude, this will take many years. Anyway, we should start the campaign as soon as possible, the longer we delay it the worst it's going to be...

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Guest AuntJess
"MUST be suitable immigrant material to satisfy their host country to-be"

Not neccesarily, I work in IT for an investment bank and some of the Indian staff

they bring over on visas are not very good at all, just they are cheaper than

a UK employee..

A lot of our Indian off-shores are on somethink like £5-7K a year, which is a salary over there.

No...sorry! I meant the Emigrants out of here must be well qualified and THEY are leaving, so it follows that the work force remaining here will have the balance of qualifieds reduced. Other countries set higher standards on their immigrants than we do, to our disgrace and detriment.

Edited by AuntJess
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Could be anything, from 0% (cannot go down from there since it's now minimum wage) to a billion percent...

On average it will be somewhere around 3.5% per year, so it's likely to be now around £6.35, which is definately in line with inflation. ( http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285 )

I am sure you can tell me many cases of people who got 0% one year and then 2% another year, back to 0% and then maybe 2% and are now on £5.75, but then I could maybe tell you about someone who was earning 5.52 and it's now earning 8 per hour (without promotion).

na, 3.5 is well below RPI nowadays.

I can also tell you of cases where people are working for less that minimum wage. just do a google search, you will find many examples.

if you are telling me immigration is not suppressing wage inflation, i don't agree at all.

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Guest AuntJess
What's wrong with that? There are a lot of British People on those salaries too? Are you suggesting that only the British should be allowed earnings of 60k or above?

There are jobs in the IT sector that pay the salaries you've mentioned, ok, anyone can send a CV and apply to these jobs. The best candidate will be selected. The best candidate could well be Indian.

Maybe instead of complaining we should invest more in our careers, keep learning, keep growing, then we would be the best candidates.

Sorry, but if I apply for a 80k job and I do not get it, I do not care if an Indian got it instead, if he was British it would be the same to me. I would still have lost an opportunity. The lesson would be for me to do better in the next interview, to start taking responsibilities in my current job that can serve as experience for the new jobs I am applying to etc...

Always assuming of course that the upper echelons don't have a hidden agenda. I once went for a job and out of the four candidates remaining, the one who was crippled with arthritis got the job. she was:

Less qualified than we other candidates

Less experienced in the teaching the subject than we others - if fact she had done only 6 months teaching in all .. and that in a different subject.

She admitted that as she had difficulty writing - notes or blackboard - that she would have to dictate to the class for their info.

A colleague who worked at the college, later told me that their 'quota" for disabled personnel was down. <_<

Before some one chooses to wilfully misunderstand me. I don't begrudge someone disabled getting a job, but to advertise it as 'open to all comers ' - as it were - was dishonest and discouraging. None of the otherr candidates had my 'inside' knowledge so may have wondered what they did wrong. answer... probably nothing. You can't play with a stacked deck.

This may well happen with ethnic minorities, in fact I DO have some knowledge of similar, happening to one of my children.....

Edited by AuntJess
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Why, why, why am I not surprised. More in to work, more tax for greedy Gordo. Who cares where they come from!

With so many million actually not working, maybe we should have concentrated on getting people working by making it less lucrative to be on benefits. Maybe, a "Get a chav to work" campaign

Wouldn't that be Ann Widdecombe's "Get Back To Work" truck she drives around the place?

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The sheeple have already "sussed" the Government.

There were some interesting moments on QT last week. An asian guy in the audience had the tenacity to ask, right if these people coming in are of such economic benefit, then where is the tax? Why aren't the Treasury coffers overflowing with tax revenues from all these migrants.? Instead public borrowing is at all time high and many public frontline services are under severe stress.

The fact is the earnings of these people are so low they pay little or any tax and in some cases get tax credits. At the other end of the scale are the nom doms. Also why is it we have large numbers of newly trained doctors that are unable to get jobs in the NHS? Why are employers getting away with reverse discrimination practices against the indigeneous population? Why is it acceptable to advertise for "Polish cleaners?"

Of course none of the panel would be allowed to answer these questions, but the government has been rumbled and no one believes a word it says. As one questioner said "you can't believe a word this government says."

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The agenda of NuLabour seems to be to have as many indebted people as possible utterly dependent upon the State, and the indebted State itself utterly dependent upon Global commercial banking and industrial interests.

As the evidence mounts, my sceptically inclined belief-ometer swings reluctantly towards the NWO hidden agenda theory.

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The agenda of NuLabour seems to be to have as many indebted people as possible utterly dependent upon the State

The beauty of having millions of people dependent on the state through benefits or the bureaucracy, is that they are all eligible to vote - and more likely to vote for the incumbent a**holes because their high level of benefits or unnecessary job is dependent on Mr Browns tax/borrow/spend government.

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I doubt many immigrants will leave if they have become eligible for benefits when the downturn comes. We already have a massive imbalance where you can be better off sitting on your backside and get social housing (assuming you have kids). What this means in a recession is a massive liability to the taxpayer, and social unrest.

Well done NuLab - your social experiment of mass immigration is about to blow up. We are in no shape to cope with a recession. Massively in debt, too much reliance on financial services, Mac jobs and retail. Too big a public sector, too much borrowing. When the downturn comes, it will be much worse than the last recession. The very last thing we need are millions of immigrants.

I for one believe that if a bad recession does occur, any one who is not a british citizen and on benefits should be asked to return to their own country. Secondly at that point, the UK govt should also then enforce that british citizens must get preferential treatment in hiring in the UK, which means if they can do the job, they should be hired over all foreigners. Other EU countries are getting protectionist, I dont see why the Uk shouldnt do the same.

As regards benefits, a thought i had is that if you are non brit and not been working here, then you should not be able to claim benefits full stop and requested to leave as one of the EU rules clearly states, you can freely travel but if you cannot support yourself that country has a right to remove you, Ireland removed the Roma gyspies from Dublin using this. If they have been working, you should get benefit for a period of 2 months maximum after they have signed a contract stating that if do not find work within 2 months they must return to their home country to start again, after all you should be saving for when things like this happen. I did and am proud to have never claimed benefit.

I live out in Turkey at present and these guys have it spot on right. You have to pay £200 a year to live here with a permit for one year. You have to provide bank statements every year to show you have enough money to support yourself. You must report to the mayors office and present yourself witihn 14 days of expiration (no exceptions, i forgot once and the cops turned up 7 days after at my door asking me renew immediately or they would be back) for approval then the customs police for interview. Furthermore after 5 years if you want to get a turkish passport you must pass a language proficiency test here. You cannot take a job here unless approved from Ankara and they are satisfied no Turk can do the job themselves. They really dont take shit. If they stop you and you dont have the correct paperwork or have a residence permit. You are gone within a day and if you are found working illegally, you are on a plane within a few hours, next plane out. Another thing, here, you dont work, you dont eat, no such thing as benefits and these guys majority earn 20 lira a day (£8).

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The beauty of having millions of people dependent on the state through benefits or the bureaucracy, is that they are all eligible to vote - and more likely to vote for the incumbent a**holes because their high level of benefits or unnecessary job is dependent on Mr Browns tax/borrow/spend government.

As I understand it, the NWO agenda is to deliberately engineer a world wide financial breakdown and then to impose their own Global solution on the helpless masses.

Paranoid delusion? Or is evidence mounting that something like this is actually going on behind the scenes?

For us mushrooms, perhaps only time will tell.

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Guest tenant super

New labour's betrayal of the "aboriginal" British working classes is now complete.

Having uncomplainingly worked it's nuts off to keep the country going through the dark days of the seventies and eighties and early nineties the southeast of England has been vindictively and permanently defaced by new labour.

Public services barely exist even in the larger towns, hospitals are closing yet taxes keep rising and getting off the train in london is not far removed from being dropped off in an alien world. I dont really know how people are faring elsewhere but here in Surrey a normal working life is extraordinarily hard.

The plan is to de-camp to Cornwall to re-train but I doubt they'll be happy to see me - 'bloody londoners' etc etc.

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Guest AuntJess
I for one believe that if a bad recession does occur, any one who is not a british citizen and on benefits should be asked to return to their own country. Secondly at that point, the UK govt should also then enforce that british citizens must get preferential treatment in hiring in the UK, which means if they can do the job, they should be hired over all foreigners. Other EU countries are getting protectionist, I dont see why the Uk shouldnt do the same.

As regards benefits, a thought i had is that if you are non brit and not been working here, then you should not be able to claim benefits full stop and requested to leave as one of the EU rules clearly states, you can freely travel but if you cannot support yourself that country has a right to remove you, Ireland removed the Roma gyspies from Dublin using this. If they have been working, you should get benefit for a period of 2 months maximum after they have signed a contract stating that if do not find work within 2 months they must return to their home country to start again, after all you should be saving for when things like this happen. I did and am proud to have never claimed benefit.

I live out in Turkey at present and these guys have it spot on right. You have to pay £200 a year to live here with a permit for one year. You have to provide bank statements every year to show you have enough money to support yourself. You must report to the mayors office and present yourself witihn 14 days of expiration (no exceptions, i forgot once and the cops turned up 7 days after at my door asking me renew immediately or they would be back) for approval then the customs police for interview. Furthermore after 5 years if you want to get a turkish passport you must pass a language proficiency test here. You cannot take a job here unless approved from Ankara and they are satisfied no Turk can do the job themselves. They really dont take shit. If they stop you and you dont have the correct paperwork or have a residence permit. You are gone within a day and if you are found working illegally, you are on a plane within a few hours, next plane out. Another thing, here, you dont work, you dont eat, no such thing as benefits and these guys majority earn 20 lira a day (£8).

If you tried that here the woolly-minded Nulab/liberalistas would scream "racism".. "xenophobia" and decry such "inhumane" practices. It is a non-starter sadly. They have governments who have the wit to look after their bread and butter... the indigenous workers.

Edited by AuntJess
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New labour's betrayal of the "aboriginal" British working classes is now complete.

Having uncomplainingly worked it's nuts off to keep the country going through the dark days of the seventies and eighties and early nineties the southeast of England has been vindictively and permanently defaced by new labour.

Public services barely exist even in the larger towns, hospitals are closing yet taxes keep rising and getting off the train in london is not far removed from being dropped off in an alien world. I dont really know how people are faring elsewhere but here in Surrey a normal working life is extraordinarily hard.

The plan is to de-camp to Cornwall to re-train but I doubt they'll be happy to see me - 'bloody londoners' etc etc.

Or could it be pay-back time for Scotland vs. England? You know, all those border raids under Edward I and the Catholic Wars under the Tudors etc.

The last time England imported some Scots (Stuarts) to run the country it turned out to be a complete and utter disaster:

James I, Charles I, Charles II and James II.

The late great historian Trevellyan suggests that the failure of the Stuarts was due to their lack of appreciation of "Englishness" and our free Parliament. It took Olly Cromwell to remind them.

I do not think Gordon knows the country he is attempting to govern. He would be better off telling the Scots Parliament that there will be no more boom and bust and Scots Jobs for Scotsmen. The fact that he is introducing some rubbish called "Britishness" demonstrates he is clueless.

We seem to be plagued with 'em at the moment from the former leader of the Purple Shirt brigade (Liblabs) and the current foppish fellow in charge of the Tories. I think Tony was also a Scot albeit a generatin or two removed. Pity Maggie didn't have offsrping to follow in her footsteps.

I wonder what Alf Garnet would call Gordon? IIRC, Alf was a front wheel?

Edited by Realistbear
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Let's face it lads, if England was a business, it would be bankrupt by now....what am I saying! we already are bankrupt. :o Puzzle is, who is lending us the money to go on bungling along?

No one is, we are stealing it through inflation and other means.

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No one is, we are stealing it through inflation and other means.

We are actually stealing it from future generations.

The last decade has been financed by New Labour on the back of the working classes, and future generations.

Its a bit like Grandma having the life of old reilly, some world cruises, diamonds dropping off her head, but the HP agreeement has her Grandchildrens name on it.

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We are actually stealing it from future generations.

The last decade has been financed by New Labour on the back of the working classes, and future generations.

Its a bit like Grandma having the life of old reilly, some world cruises, diamonds dropping off her head, but the HP agreeement has her Grandchildrens name on it.

You can't steal what doesn't exist yet.

You can't make promises for other people.

Worthless promises have been made to get real resources right now.

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Why, why, why am I not surprised. More in to work, more tax for greedy Gordo. Who cares where they come from!

With so many million actually not working, maybe we should have concentrated on getting people working by making it less lucrative to be on benefits. Maybe, a "Get a chav to work" campaign

Your actual chav, if a single person would most definitly want to work, for a benefit of £59 per week for the first 6 months its actualy harder work being on the dole than working, (I did it last year, and still sign on for NI contributions only benefit, with the same aggravating processes) after that you get a reduced benefit or nothing if your partner works or you have savings over a low minimum limit. Most of the people I speak to at the Job center, the punters that is who are waiting around, are keen or desperate to work, many say employers wont take them on for several reasons, eg been unemployed too long (automaticaly bad), not expericenced enough (even for McJobs) Too old/young. The problem is this, the government has listened too closely to poverty pleading of the likes of the CBI and other right wing organisations who would advocate slavery if they didnt have to pay for housing and food (more than the wages they currently pay at the bottom) and as a result have lead us into the situation we are now in. If private enterprise had to operate in the real market (that they rant and rave about) then they would have had to have put up wages in many jobs to a realistic level, these buinesses are not poor and are paying their execs far more money than they deserve, bonuses are derived from cutting the workforce to the bone, rarely from better or increased buisness.

The other issue with being on the dole is training, the government is guilty on this one, for all the bullsh*t they talk re training, there is virtualy no training worth having via the job centre, some building courses apparently but few get jobs from this on account of not being experienced or Polish, the IT courses are at nitwit level, ('This is a mouse, this is a keyboard etc)and little avaliable at colleges, long winded courses with wishy washy qualifications in nail varnishing or equaly pathetic endevours. Cut the immgrants to the bone, increase training, and make employers take up their responsibility with wages and training (something else they have abandoned) wont happen of course, as with cheap credit , cheap employment is like opium to the avereage employer now.

Edited by steve99
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I don`t deny hat execs are paid too much.

Q. How can immigrants get work over the indigenous population?

A. Proven track record of hard graft and reliability

I laboured in the New Jersey in the early nineties, literally put your name down on a daily basis and short term contracts tax-free. One guy employed me and a mate to landscape his garden. We worked hard all week

When the week was up, he took us out for a few beers. He said everyone here employed Irish as labourers, as the coloured population & white trash were not interested in working hard. We got $6 an hour each, and a $60 bonus for the effort.

Now, the Irish import Polish to do the jobs they don`t want, ironic?

The Roman Empire fell due to uncontrolled immigration and over-reliance on mercenary troops

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Let's face it lads, if England was a business, it would be bankrupt by now....what am I saying! we already are bankrupt. :o Puzzle is, who is lending us the money to go on bungling along?

An excellent question. And why are they doing so? What state (and State) are we being manouvred into?

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